• Erik Naggum (unregistered)

    Fascinating. I appear to be the first DB-person /and/ programmer who noticed that the "helpful" script solution completely fails to solve the original problem. It first assigns just one filename to $file, which is then left alone. Then it assigns a huge number of filenames to $FILE. Wow! Way to prove your point! DB-folks sure are annoying, because they tend to be anal about correctness and integrity and such, while programmers tend to be so proud of their hacks, whether tested or not, whether they work or not, just to prove they are better programmers.

    The overlooked morale of this story ought to be: Get it right first. Clearly the programmer had a completely different set of priorities.

  • Anonymous (unregistered) in reply to Erik Naggum
    Erik Naggum:
    Fascinating. I appear to be the first DB-person /and/ programmer who noticed that the "helpful" script solution completely fails to solve the original problem. It first assigns just one filename to $file, which is then left alone. Then it assigns a huge number of filenames to $FILE. Wow! Way to prove your point! DB-folks sure are annoying, because they tend to be anal about correctness and integrity and such, while programmers tend to be so proud of their hacks, whether tested or not, whether they work or not, just to prove they are better programmers.

    The overlooked morale of this story ought to be: Get it right first. Clearly the programmer had a completely different set of priorities.

    Actually you don't appear to be the first person to notice, instead you seem to be the only person who didn't bother to read any of the previous comments:

    xtremezone:
    Patsie:
    Okay, is it me, or is nobody seeing that the script doesn't do what it advertises... It starts off with a file= and in the loop continues with FILE= At least the DBA's script worked
    I noticed that as well. I gave the submitter/poster/editor the benefit of the doubt and assumed that the script was executing in a UNIX-like environment with [*ugh*] case-insensitive environment variables... :-X Either that, or the poster/editor is a Windows-y user and doesn't realize case is important. ;D Either way, you get the point. And the Windows-y users never will. ;D
    Further more, it is perfectly obvious that this error was introduced when the script was transcribed to this site. If it didn't work as expected then we have to assume that 'Thom' wouldn't have used it. Overall I think you've done a great job of demonstrating why everybody hates DBAs - that is, nitpicking over problems that only exist in your head.
  • Dirk Diggler (unregistered) in reply to xtremezone
    xtremezone:
    Code Dependent:
    xtremezone:
    Either that, or the poster/editor is a Windows-y user and doesn't realize case is important. ;D Either way, you get the point. And the Windows-y users never will. ;D
    I'm not sure what you're getting at. Are you confusing Windows with Visual Basic, maybe?

    Regardless, the fact is that case is only important when it is. If it doesn't matter, then it doesn't matter.

    rEm Respond to Windows user.
eChO nO, %usERnamE%, I'M nOT conFUSIng WiNDOws wIth visuAL BAsiC.
ECho I wAs sIMpLY eXpRESsing my dISTasTe in cASe-insENSitivITY.
    Case is important. Languages that ignore it are generally lazy languages used by lazy programmers. And environments that ignore it are weakened by it. I'm technically a Windows and Linux user, though I much prefer Linux for 99% of everything. I'd sure like to rid myself of Windows entirely, but unfortunately game developers don't yet give Linux the attention it deserves. :(
    So in other words, the shift key separates the l337s from the noobs?

  • (cs)

    Someone should make an animated GIF from the initial version.

  • (cs) in reply to Erik Naggum
    Erik Naggum:
    DB-folks sure are annoying, because they tend to be anal about correctness and integrity and such... *snip*

    The overlooked morale of this story...

    Oh, the irony.

  • Zerbs (unregistered) in reply to T604
    T604:
    I've always wondered what it is they do? Write create/alter sql and then sit around waiting for indexes to corrupt? I can never understand how their pay is on the same scale (or better) than a developers.
    And with that attitude it sounds like you never will understand what they do. That's like saying that being able to drive a car makes you qualified as an auto mechanic. DBAs have the same or better pay scale because they have a skill that's in demand and not many people have.
  • (cs) in reply to No, really
    No:
    Yeah, you're right, 50% is definitely too generous... barely 50% of any profession can do their own job well, and I've found that goes moreso for tech jobs :)

    Remember: 50% of any profession are below average. 90% of them think they are above average.

  • (cs) in reply to Zerbs
    Zerbs:
    T604:
    I've always wondered what it is they do?
    ...they have a skill that's in demand and not many people have.
    Well, don't stop now. Tell him what it is.
  • Tuxie (unregistered)

    Here's a one-line version using ruby:

    ruby -e 'puts "file="+(1..118).map{|n|"$WORKSPACE/ewprd#{n}_$DATECODE.dmp"}.join(",")'

  • Erik Naggum (unregistered) in reply to Anonymous

    Wow. Arrogant and proving my point. "Didn't bother to read ANY of the previous comments" is just the kind of illogical arrogance that one has come to expect from "programmers". I did not read ALL of the prior comments, obviously, because I missed TWO of them. Concluding from that that I did not read ANY of them is proof positive of the attitude I am attacking: Don't bother to get it right first, have some other, higher priority in your professional life, such as catering to a fragile ego.

    Yes, there is a huge attitude difference between DB-folks and programmers. DB-folks are generally much older and have established egos and much less of a need to prove themselves to their peers, because they generally know what they are doing and the boundaries of their knowledge. Young stud programmers out to prove how smart they are, generally know neither.

    But it's perfectly OK to be young and cocky. First: We all were, when our immature brains were overloaded with hormones. Second: Aging alone will most probably cure this problem. However, innocent people should not have to pay for arrogant immaturity, and knocking DB-folks because you don't understand them is immature and arrogant in the extreme.

  • D C Ross (unregistered) in reply to ebs2002
    ebs2002:
    Ohh...a sailboat!
    You dumb bastard. It's not a sailboat, it's a schooner.
  • (cs) in reply to Erik Naggum
    Erik Naggum:
    Don't bother to get it right first, have some other, higher priority in your professional life, such as catering to a fragile ego.
    I assume you haven't gotten as far as 235238 yet.

    This repetition of "get it right first" as a distinguishing characteristic of "DB-folks" prompts me to ask whether you proofread before you post.

  • Amerrickangirl (unregistered) in reply to Havstein
    Havstein:
    WHAT WAS THE PROBLEM that Andrew fixed??! I like hearing about problems slightly more than beeing reminded that not all people think in loops.

    Back in the day I worked for a GM subsidiary doing batch PL/1 and JCL programming. Rather than lay off some of the people in the GM dealerships, they kindly offered them training as computer programmers despite the fact that most of these people had little or no aptitude for programming.

    I'll never forget Annette, a former secretary, trying mightly for several days to write a simple program to read in a bunch of records and generate a report.

    Her input file had 50 records. Her program had 50 read statements.

    Annette: Help! What do I do if there are 51 records?

    (She later quit and became a beautician)

  • Erik Naggum (unregistered) in reply to Code Dependent

    If any more of you people believe that you have a crucial point to make regarding the /code/ we write for pay and for other people's commercial interests, and/or regarding the attitudes we bring to what we present to their /computers/ and our /profession/, by attacking spelling errors or question whether people proofread comments on a freaking /blog/, please allow me to preempt you: You don't. Really. But it is highly indicative of a personality trait that needs to find /something/ to attack others for when the truth hurts, regardless of how petty.

    We all make mistakes. Some of us make them in our own leisure time. Some of us make them while in the paid services of others. If you are incapable of seeing the difference, may I suggest that you stick to writing code in your leisure time so you do not hurt other people? Thank you.

    Maybe a hint is in order: DBAs do not work on their own databases, but with other people's highly valuable data, while programmers can easily work on their own code, or "open source" or some other leisure-like activity. This also explains why DBAs want real database systems, while most programmers want "object stores" to store only their own objects efficiently for their own application.

    Please, try to understand people who are very different from your own in-group. Attacking people you do not understand simply because they are different enough that you have to work on it, is called "discrimination" in many civilized countries, and if they get vicious enough, it is called "hate crimes", but among "programmers", it appears that attacking "DB-folks" is perfectly legitimate. And I thought most programmers were Democrats, not redneck Republicans... So maybe some of you guys out there should try to /talk/ to a DBA once or twice before you continue to harass and ridicule them, while trying desperately to score a point on /blog comment spelling/, of all puerile things.

    I'm done commenting on this thread unless I find a glimmer of intelligence in a response.

  • Spoon (unregistered) in reply to xtremezone
    xtremezone:
    Code Dependent:
    xtremezone:
    Either that, or the poster/editor is a Windows-y user and doesn't realize case is important. ;D Either way, you get the point. And the Windows-y users never will. ;D
    I'm not sure what you're getting at. Are you confusing Windows with Visual Basic, maybe?

    Regardless, the fact is that case is only important when it is. If it doesn't matter, then it doesn't matter.

    rEm Respond to Windows user.
eChO nO, %usERnamE%, I'M nOT conFUSIng WiNDOws wIth visuAL BAsiC.
ECho I wAs sIMpLY eXpRESsing my dISTasTe in cASe-insENSitivITY.
    Case is important. Languages that ignore it are generally lazy languages used by lazy programmers. And environments that ignore it are weakened by it. I'm technically a Windows and Linux user, though I much prefer Linux for 99% of everything. I'd sure like to rid myself of Windows entirely, but unfortunately game developers don't yet give Linux the attention it deserves. :(

    Yeah seriously, we create lots and lots of files where I work (taking pictures & scanning computer generated documents and then archiving them electronically) and on windows the file 'a' gets overwritten by 'A' (HUGE BUG!!! It took me weeks to figure out why files where being deleted! good thing we keep hard backups of everything!)

  • (cs) in reply to Erik Naggum
    Erik Naggum:
    We all make mistakes.
    Yes, we do. Your mistake was posting a snarky reply to what was clearly a transcription/anonymization error; your next mistake was presuming to be the only one who noticed said error without actually verifying it; your subsequent mistakes have mostly revolved around militantly defending yourself and attacking everyone else instead of simply admitting your original mistakes.
    Maybe a hint is in order: DBAs do not work on their own databases, but with other people's highly valuable data, while programmers can easily work on their own code, or "open source" or some other leisure-like activity.
    I think it's fair to say that programmers work on "their own" code about as often as DBAs work on "their own" databases. Sure, sometimes you get called in to optimize or fix the mess in somebody else's data, and sometimes you're asked to build it from scratch. Programmers are sometimes called in to fix a torrent of bugs and missing functionality, and sometimes they develop new software from scratch. The only difference is that software can be cool, whereas databases are always boring as hell. And this is coming from someone who spends at least a third of his business hours working with databases.
    This also explains why DBAs want real database systems, while most programmers want "object stores" to store only their own objects efficiently for their own application.
    [citation needed]
    Attacking people you do not understand simply because they are different enough that you have to work on it, is called "discrimination" in many civilized countries, and if they get vicious enough, it is called "hate crimes"
    This is about as far as one can possibly get from the actual definitions of discrimination and hate crime. I guess you could call it prejudice, but even that is a stretch here.
    redneck Republicans
    How very ironic coming from someone who just went on a rant about "discrimination". It always amazes me when someone can spout off mountains of the most bigoted crap imaginable and finish by telling everyone how enlightened he is.
  • (cs) in reply to Erik Naggum
    Erik Naggum:
    Blah, blah, blah etc. etc. ad infinitum
    It's not that you made a mistake, DB-folkie. It's that you made it while railing on at length about how you "get it right first", as opposed to the rest of us, who are too immature to do so. Therein lies your downfall.
  • Dirk Diggler (unregistered) in reply to Erik Naggum
    Erik Naggum:
    If any more of you people believe that you have a crucial point to make regarding the /code/ we write for pay and for other people's commercial interests, and/or regarding the attitudes we bring to what we present to their /computers/ and our /profession/, by attacking spelling errors or question whether people proofread comments on a freaking /blog/, please allow me to preempt you: You don't. Really. But it is highly indicative of a personality trait that needs to find /something/ to attack others for when the truth hurts, regardless of how petty.

    We all make mistakes. Some of us make them in our own leisure time. Some of us make them while in the paid services of others. If you are incapable of seeing the difference, may I suggest that you stick to writing code in your leisure time so you do not hurt other people? Thank you.

    Maybe a hint is in order: DBAs do not work on their own databases, but with other people's highly valuable data, while programmers can easily work on their own code, or "open source" or some other leisure-like activity. This also explains why DBAs want real database systems, while most programmers want "object stores" to store only their own objects efficiently for their own application.

    Please, try to understand people who are very different from your own in-group. Attacking people you do not understand simply because they are different enough that you have to work on it, is called "discrimination" in many civilized countries, and if they get vicious enough, it is called "hate crimes", but among "programmers", it appears that attacking "DB-folks" is perfectly legitimate. And I thought most programmers were Democrats, not redneck Republicans... So maybe some of you guys out there should try to /talk/ to a DBA once or twice before you continue to harass and ridicule them, while trying desperately to score a point on /blog comment spelling/, of all puerile things.

    I'm done commenting on this thread unless I find a glimmer of intelligence in a response.

    boobies.

  • Syntax Pedant (unregistered) in reply to Erik Naggum
    Erik Naggum:
    while trying desperately to score a point on /blog comment spelling/, of all puerile things.
    Clue for you, d00d: $file is to $FILE as moral is to morale.
  • Tuxie (unregistered) in reply to Aaron
    The only difference is that software can be cool, whereas databases are always boring as hell.

    You are so extremely wrong. You obviously have never worked with data warehousing, and/or you have only worked with crappy (either primitive or closed-environment) RBDMSes like MS SQL Server, Sybase or MySQL.

    I work with (and have designed) our data warehouse in PostgreSQL. We incrementally collect data from several completely different sources, clean, mangle and normalize it to simplified public tables and views where you can combine it to get crazy detailed statistics about almost anything you can dream up (if it's related to company data).

    95% of the code is pure SQL and the last 5% (mostly maintainence stuff and control scripts) is written in Ruby. It's a pleasure to work with.

  • JohnB (unregistered) in reply to Dirk Diggler
    Dirk Diggler:
    Erik Naggum:
    I'm done commenting on this thread unless I find a glimmer of intelligence in a response.
    boobies.
    He's back.
  • Tim Ward (unregistered)

    Puzzled ... is there perhaps a language difference here?

    In English "passed on" means "conveyed this information to those best placed to act on it". Does it mean something different in American perhaps?

  • MeRp (unregistered) in reply to Tuxie
    Tuxie:
    The only difference is that software can be cool, whereas databases are always boring as hell.

    You are so extremely wrong. You obviously have never worked with data warehousing, and/or you have only worked with crappy (either primitive or closed-environment) RBDMSes like MS SQL Server, Sybase or MySQL.

    I work with (and have designed) our data warehouse in PostgreSQL. We incrementally collect data from several completely different sources, clean, mangle and normalize it to simplified public tables and views where you can combine it to get crazy detailed statistics about almost anything you can dream up (if it's related to company data).

    95% of the code is pure SQL and the last 5% (mostly maintainence stuff and control scripts) is written in Ruby. It's a pleasure to work with.

    I think that the original statement was false, as you assert, however, I do not believe that your proposed counterexample is a valid one. A better counterexample would not be the database you work with, but rather yourself; you find the DB fascinating and/or intriguing and pleasurable to work with, therefore databases are not always boring as hell. The fallacy in the original statement was not related to the databases, but rather to the perceptions of those working with them. Some people like them, others do not.

  • MeRp (unregistered) in reply to Tim Ward
    Tim Ward:
    Puzzled ... is there perhaps a language difference here?

    In English "passed on" means "conveyed this information to those best placed to act on it". Does it mean something different in American perhaps?

    In the American dialectic it can mean that, or it can mean that the individual who did the "passing" chose not to utilize whatever was passed on. e.g. If I passed on lunch, then I chose not to have lunch.

  • Buddy (unregistered) in reply to xtremezone
    xtremezone:
    Case is important. Languages that ignore it are generally lazy languages used by lazy programmers. And environments that ignore it are weakened by it. ...

    Some would disagree. The designers of Python and Eiffel considered case insensitivity to be a superior design but some implementations enforce case sensitivity for a number of reasons. Foremost was the ability to interface with the existing code base in other languages.

    In the UNICODE world it is actually not trivial to implement case insensitivity.

    Should it be locale sensitive? If so, then code that worked okay in Germany could fritz out when compiled in Turkey (where I´ is not the uppercase ofi´).

    Is it locale insensitive? Incur the wrath of those whose sensitivities you trample with your Imperialist notions!

    Just testing ... Latin, Greek, Cyrillic: AΑА.

  • aliquot (unregistered)

    Wow, what is up with all this hostility toward DBA's? In my previous job I was a DBA and a programmer - I handled the stored procedures, the other 3 dev's handled the java code, we collaborated on schema design and I helped the other dev's optimize their queries for performance. There was none of the bitter rivalry I'm seeing here. It was all sunshine and roses.

    Level2 had the right of it - the DBA who altered this script probably noticed it wasn't backing up all the datafiles, wrote a single query which generated this long line, pasted it into the backup script and called it a day. Sure it's ugly, but it's faster & easier than manually verifying that each individual database file matched the pattern in the "fix", and guaranteed to catch every datafile even if some bozo has made a typo in one of the datafile names that makes it not fit the pattern.

    TRWTF is that the datafile names OR their pattern get hard-coded into a backup script. Even the "fix" makes the reliability of the backups depend on everyone who uses the database knowing the correct pattern to use for the file names, and remembering to use it each time they make a new datafile. If you have to use OS backup to backup the database files individually (in some DBMS's there are better alternatives, like Oracle's RMAN utility), and for some reason you can't just designate a location for the datafiles and back up the whole DIRECTORY, then at least write a shell script which queries the database for all its datafile names and backs up each file in the resulting list.

    captcha: aliquam "aliquot" is one of my favorite words, so when i saw the captcha, how could I resist ?

  • (cs) in reply to Amerrickangirl
    Amerrickangirl:
    Annette: Help! What do I do if there are 51 records?
    Discard it and call it a glitch? -no reservation.
  • (cs)

    Well, now the real funny WTF is you guys ragging on naggum for "mistakenly" using morale instead of moral. The definitions overlap, even though naggum's usage is not common. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/morale "Morale Mo`rale", n. [F. See Moral, a.] The moral condition, or the condition in other respects, so far as it is affected by, or dependent upon, moral considerations, such as zeal, spirit, hope, and confidence; mental state, as of a body of men, an army, and the like." Which proves once again that those of you who think you know everything are annoying those of us who are DBAs.

  • GrandmasterB (unregistered)

    We worked with a very large insurance company who bought our 'enterprisy' app. The DBA's didnt want to create a database for us or add any tables. I have no idea why, they just liked having their own little fiefdom. Whatever, dudes, you just paid $100k+ for our software... dont use it if you dont want. Less tech support for us.

  • (cs) in reply to sqlblindman
    sqlblindman:
    Well, now the real funny WTF is you guys ragging on naggum for "mistakenly" using morale instead of moral. The definitions overlap, even though naggum's usage is not common. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/morale "Morale Mo`rale"\, n. [F. See Moral, a.] The moral condition, or the condition in other respects, so far as it is affected by, or dependent upon, moral considerations, such as zeal, spirit, hope, and confidence; mental state, as of a body of men, an army, and the like." Which proves once again that those of you who think you know everything are annoying those of us who are DBAs.
    So when he said, "The overlooked morale of this story", he was actually saying, "The overlooked mental state of this story"?

    I thought he already admitted it was a spelling mistake...?

    Addendum (2008-12-17 17:24): The drowning man doth clutch the frail and weakly straw.

  • (cs)

    Wait... if you tilt your head just so...

    My God! It's full of stars!

  • Walt (unregistered)

    Not Really a WTF. Looks like it was generated by one of those DBA automatic script writing tools.

  • (cs) in reply to cb
    cb:
    Just curious... Isn't "file=$WORKSPACE/ewprd*_$DATECODE.dmp" somewhat likely to work? :-"
    Why use * when you could use brace expansion (assuming you have BASH rather than a generic SH)? $WORKSPACE/ewprd{1..118}_$DATECODE.dmp will still need a bit of munging to change the spaces to commas, but it gets rid of the quadratic performance of the loop while still giving you precise control over the order and limits of the expansion.
  • (cs)

    It looks like the original script 'got bent' towards the end.

  • JB (unregistered)

    must.. obay.. hypno-code

  • Rockwolf (unregistered)

    There's also a typo on the second-last line... ;)

  • (cs) in reply to Erik Naggum
    Erik Naggum:
    If any more of you people believe that you have a crucial point to make ....

    Am I the only one wondering if Erik had a crucial point to make?

  • (cs) in reply to Walt
    Walt:
    Not Really a WTF. Looks like it was generated by one of those DBA automatic script writing tools.
    You aren't the first one to suggest this. Assuming that is the case, then TRWTF would be a script that can generate 118 correct entries, and 1 incorrect entry.

    The script was broken, and that was why Andrew was asked to look at it.

    The Other WTF is Andrew fixing the original script, and not giving the more maintainable one to the DBA.

  • Tim Ward (unregistered) in reply to MeRp
    MeRp:
    Tim Ward:
    Puzzled ... is there perhaps a language difference here?

    In English "passed on" means "conveyed this information to those best placed to act on it". Does it mean something different in American perhaps?

    In the American dialectic it can mean that, or it can mean that the individual who did the "passing" chose not to utilize whatever was passed on. e.g. If I passed on lunch, then I chose not to have lunch.

    Ah, so another example of the same phrase meaning the exact opposite in American to what it means in English then.

  • (cs)

    What... when I first saw this I thought Firefox had glitched up and smeared the text. Then I looked directly at it. I'm going to have nightmares.

  • David (unregistered) in reply to Buddy
    Buddy:
    Should it be locale sensitive? If so, then code that worked okay in Germany could fritz out when compiled in Turkey (where `I´ is not the uppercase of `i´).

    How many languages allow non-ASCII characters in the code itself?

  • Buddy (unregistered) in reply to David
    David:
    Buddy:
    Should it be locale sensitive? If so, then code that worked okay in Germany could fritz out when compiled in Turkey (where `I´ is not the uppercase of `i´).

    How many languages allow non-ASCII characters in the code itself?

    The .NET framework, so presumably C#, VB.NET and J# and anything else on that framework, see http://tinyurl.com/3qhgt4 for an example. Google brings up matches in PHP, perl, etc.

  • olekvi (unregistered) in reply to sqlblindman

    It is a stereogram, isn't it? :)

  • (cs) in reply to Tim Ward
    Tim Ward:
    Ah, so another example of the same phrase meaning the exact opposite in American to what it means in English then.
    I wouldn't say that. You're thinking in terms of phrases, colloquialisms. This is more of a simple construct. "Pass on" is not one thought. It could as easily be said, "On lunch, I'm going to pass."
  • Michael (unregistered) in reply to chrismcb
    chrismcb:
    Erik Naggum:
    If any more of you people believe that you have a crucial point to make ....

    Am I the only one wondering if Erik had a crucial point to make?

    He never does. Hit the Usenet archives in comp.lang.lisp and search for his "contributions". I think he has single-handedly driven off more potential Lisp users than all the misplaced parentheses in all of Lispdom put together.

  • ShitStirrer (unregistered) in reply to Erik Naggum
    Erik Naggum:
    Wow. Arrogant and proving my point. "Didn't bother to read ANY of the previous comments" is just the kind of illogical arrogance that one has come to expect from "programmers". I did not read ALL of the prior comments, obviously, because I missed TWO of them. Concluding from that that I did not read ANY of them is proof positive of the attitude I am attacking: Don't bother to get it right first, have some other, higher priority in your professional life, such as catering to a fragile ego.

    Yes, there is a huge attitude difference between DB-folks and programmers. DB-folks are generally much older and have established egos and much less of a need to prove themselves to their peers, because they generally know what they are doing and the boundaries of their knowledge. Young stud programmers out to prove how smart they are, generally know neither.

    But it's perfectly OK to be young and cocky. First: We all were, when our immature brains were overloaded with hormones. Second: Aging alone will most probably cure this problem. However, innocent people should not have to pay for arrogant immaturity, and knocking DB-folks because you don't understand them is immature and arrogant in the extreme.

    Ha!!

    Ha!!

    Hahaha......

    Why imply you have read all the comments if you haven't?

    Why would you say something like "Am I the only one to notice...." when you haven't even had a look to make sure noone else has noticed?

    The young developers have all the ego problems?? I think clearly you do...By your own admission you didn't read all the comments and then ASSUMED you were smarter than anyone who had posted...What a cocky bastard!!!

    Quite a coincidence to just miss two comments - you must have missed more than that!!

    Hahahaha...we're the ones with the ego problems...must be because we're not half as smart as you....

    I think your not half as smart as you think you are...Actually, yes you are, almost exactly half!!

  • ShitStirrer (unregistered) in reply to Erik Naggum
    Erik Naggum:
    If any more of you people believe that you have a crucial point to make regarding the /code/ we write for pay and for other people's commercial interests, and/or regarding the attitudes we bring to what we present to their /computers/ and our /profession/, by attacking spelling errors or question whether people proofread comments on a freaking /blog/, please allow me to preempt you: You don't. Really. But it is highly indicative of a personality trait that needs to find /something/ to attack others for when the truth hurts, regardless of how petty.

    We all make mistakes. Some of us make them in our own leisure time. Some of us make them while in the paid services of others. If you are incapable of seeing the difference, may I suggest that you stick to writing code in your leisure time so you do not hurt other people? Thank you.

    Maybe a hint is in order: DBAs do not work on their own databases, but with other people's highly valuable data, while programmers can easily work on their own code, or "open source" or some other leisure-like activity. This also explains why DBAs want real database systems, while most programmers want "object stores" to store only their own objects efficiently for their own application.

    Please, try to understand people who are very different from your own in-group. Attacking people you do not understand simply because they are different enough that you have to work on it, is called "discrimination" in many civilized countries, and if they get vicious enough, it is called "hate crimes", but among "programmers", it appears that attacking "DB-folks" is perfectly legitimate. And I thought most programmers were Democrats, not redneck Republicans... So maybe some of you guys out there should try to /talk/ to a DBA once or twice before you continue to harass and ridicule them, while trying desperately to score a point on /blog comment spelling/, of all puerile things.

    I'm done commenting on this thread unless I find a glimmer of intelligence in a response.

    You really are a twit, aren't you? You have insisted it is we young cocky developers who have the ego and 'can't be wrong' attitudes, and with each post confirm that you have your own ego problems....

    Trust me the world does really like you, really...We believe you are a superstar - you don't have to prove your far superior knowledge to us!!

  • Weed (unregistered) in reply to aliquot
    aliquot:
    Wow, what is up with all this hostility toward DBA's? In my previous job I was a DBA *and* a programmer - I handled the stored procedures, the other 3 dev's handled the java code, we collaborated on schema design and I helped the other dev's optimize their queries for performance. There was none of the bitter rivalry I'm seeing here. It was all sunshine and roses.

    Level2 had the right of it - the DBA who altered this script probably noticed it wasn't backing up all the datafiles, wrote a single query which generated this long line, pasted it into the backup script and called it a day. Sure it's ugly, but it's faster & easier than manually verifying that each individual database file matched the pattern in the "fix", and guaranteed to catch every datafile even if some bozo has made a typo in one of the datafile names that makes it not fit the pattern.

    TRWTF is that the datafile names OR their pattern get hard-coded into a backup script. Even the "fix" makes the reliability of the backups depend on everyone who uses the database knowing the correct pattern to use for the file names, and remembering to use it each time they make a new datafile. If you have to use OS backup to backup the database files individually (in some DBMS's there are better alternatives, like Oracle's RMAN utility), and for some reason you can't just designate a location for the datafiles and back up the whole DIRECTORY, then at least write a shell script which queries the database for all its datafile names and backs up each file in the resulting list.

    captcha: aliquam "aliquot" is one of my favorite words, so when i saw the captcha, how could I resist ?

    Hey man...I think the hostility has been toward one really arrogant DBS, not all DBAs....

    though you were him at first...you lucky mans...you lucky...

  • Revenger (unregistered)

    I can't help myself ... I have to keep staring into this lovely formatted code, hoping this will be some king of 3D image that will creep up from beneath and give this a meaning :-)

  • reader (unregistered) in reply to Ignacio
    Ignacio:
    Actually, Thom's script is more efficient.

    Have you heard of those brandnew technologies like instruction prefetching and caching, speculative - and out of order execution? They have it in their new Pentium I CPUs.

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