The Daily WTF: Curious Perversions in Information Technology

chubertdev · 2013-01-31 Reply Admin

Anon:
In principle yeah, in practice, not so much:
http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/netfxbcl/thread/2821b798-76a7-454e-9e96-946c6468ec65

The exception was uncatchable. I ended up isolating the process that did the serial communication completely from the rest of the application so I could restart it when it died.

Oh, in older versions of the .NET framework.

herby · 2013-01-31 Reply Admin

Coyne:
This mentality exists in so many places.
Take printers: Printer manufacturers really aren't in business to make printers. Printer business is really competitive and a printer can't be sold to make a lot of money.

No, printer manufacturers are in business to sell cartridges. Those astronomically expensive disposables without which the printer won't print anything; that are sold to print "1000 pages" and actually print 600 because you can only suck out 2/3's of the ink.

And desktop/laptop/tablet makers are in the business of selling software. In particular Microsoft Software. That is why we get silly things like UFEI (or whatever it is called) boot procedures. When vendors of systems finally wake up and realize that their business is selling OTHER PEOPLES PRODUCT they might tell them to go punt. It is a shame, actually. The margins on the hardware are very thin, but the margins for the software (quite large) end up in somebody elses pocket.

Sad, very sad!

Manni_reloaded · 2013-01-31 Reply Admin

My company relies on USB dongles for licensing of its software.

We routinely get calls about damaged and lost dongles which result in a $50,000 software package no longer functioning. Seems like something so expensive shouldn't rely on something so tiny and fragile.

The best is when a customer decides to increase their system security by disabling USB devices on their servers, then can't figure out why the software stopped working. And all we can do is shrug our shoulders and say "Well that's how the software works, sorry".

2013-01-31 Reply Admin

jay:
Steve The Cynic:
As Duncan says, from a simple "can we run it" point of view, the PBX ("Private Branch Exchange") could act as a dongle, but only if the PBX cannot be used at all without the software. If the PBX is capable of completely autonomous normal operation, then the (optional) software, if it is to be a chargeable option, cannot use the "PBX-as-dongle" option.

Well, that's backwards. When he says that the PBX is the dongle, he doesn't mean that the PBX can't be run without the software, but that the software can't be run without the PBX.

It's like why updated printer drivers are often available for free download from the manufacturer's web site. Sure, you could download the printer driver without ever buying the printer. So what? What are you going to do with it?

The point Steve The Cynic was making is that you cannot use the PBX as a dongle for the software if they sell the software as an optional upgrade. So if the PBX alone is $X (I have no idea how much these things cost) and the PBX plus the software is $X+Y, then if you use the PBX itself as a dongle, customers could theoretically save $Y by buying the PBX alone and then pirating the software.

2013-01-31 Reply Admin

peppermoe:
I started just as they phased out a USB dongle. Can't count the number of times that thing was sticking out the front of our VMP server and I bumped it. We wound up finding the USB headers on the MB and zip-tied the dongle inside the case.

I worked at a university which taught various CAD systems in the 80/90s, and our PCs had 3 packages which required parallel-port dongles (and one with an inline-keyboard dongle). Luckily all 3 would co-exist on one port but the order had to be correct and they stuck WAY out the back of the (clone) PCs. We actually used old D25 case plates and mounted the dongles inside the cases, pointing forward over an unused ISA slot and with an external ribbon cable to the parallel port. I think these were the PCs where the non-squareness of the metalwork was so bad that the front half of the 16-bit ISA VGA cards would unplug themselves from the sockets after a month or 2 of levering from the back plates. We had to dismantle the cases and put packing pieces between the rear panel and the slot mounting sub-chassis. I think the earliest PCB package we had (pre-Windows) had mouse support with a specific brand of serial mouse, and had a dongle bay (with its own wall wart) which went between the mouse and the PC that you plugged 'feature keys' into for each software module you'd bought. The CAD software for Apple IIs (in UCSD Pascal, 3 or 4 FDDs per machine) had a stackable dongle which sat in the game port socket (DIP-14) under the joystick or dual-pot paddle controller with a registered PAL on it wired as a pseudo-random state machine controlled by the auxiliary output pins and feeding a bit-stream back into an unused button input. The get back to the original post, we also had an in-circuit emulator for the Z80 CPU. It was the size of a large briefcase, cost an unimaginable number of kiwi$ at the time and was controlled from an RS-232 terminal (a real one, not a PC emulator). However, it did come with a DOS PC terminal interface program to help you to load symbols and code into the beast. This was, of course, supplied on a copy-protected floppy - I don't know that the usefulness of the software ever outweighed the hassle of having to have the floppy in the drive.

2013-01-31 Reply Admin

Coyne:
So what do we see? Copy protection on the print drivers. No Linux drivers because some software pirate might steal them and Linux has no DRM. CD's with license codes.
Taken all in all, it is clear that the printer manufacturers have no idea what is in their best interest...

On the contrary, it's not in their interests for people to print things - it's for people to use (and thus purchase more of) their ink/toner cartridges. And maintaining close control over the drivers is one of the elements that allows them to discourage the use of cheaper third-party cartridges. They know what they're doing.

2013-01-31 Reply Admin

herby:
Coyne:
This mentality exists in so many places.
Take printers: Printer manufacturers really aren't in business to make printers. Printer business is really competitive and a printer can't be sold to make a lot of money.

No, printer manufacturers are in business to sell cartridges. Those astronomically expensive disposables without which the printer won't print anything; that are sold to print "1000 pages" and actually print 600 because you can only suck out 2/3's of the ink.

And desktop/laptop/tablet makers are in the business of selling software. In particular Microsoft Software. That is why we get silly things like UFEI (or whatever it is called) boot procedures. When vendors of systems finally wake up and realize that their business is selling OTHER PEOPLES PRODUCT they might tell them to go punt. It is a shame, actually. The margins on the hardware are very thin, but the margins for the software (quite large) end up in somebody elses pocket.

Sad, very sad!

Actually, the cost of the software license is almost entirely borne by the crapware that gets installed. Symantec, etc., pay OEMs to preinstall their software, and basically increase profits because this marketing payment offsets some of the BOM cost.

Of course, if you're talking about something immune to this, like a Windows 8 RT tablet, you'd be correct as there's no crapware for them yet. For Android tablets, well, many manufacturers "customize" Android and provide "helpful apps" preinstalled that require ROM replacement in order to get rid of.

Could do it the Apple way - where the software is the thing that's used to sell hardware...

Matt Westwood · 2013-01-31 Reply Admin

ConC:
Hello Cyclops,
I know the term grammarnazi has found its way into internet jargon, but I just feel this term is wrong in a way.

Nazis where not just strikt to whomever they opposed. The murder of millions und the unmeasurable suffering that was caused by the nazis should not be forgotten. Using the term nazi for something not even closely as horrible, really could hurt peoples feelings, as it may look like downplaying the huge crime that was commited.

It would be thoughtful, if you could forgo from using this term in this way.

Thank you for reading.

ConC

Please show some consideration. My son was a grammarnazi, and let me assure you, it's no laughing matter.

2013-01-31 Reply Admin

I can't believe how so many shitquipment manufacturers are selling you a big house, locking up two bedrooms and a bathroom, and charging $1500 extra for the key to each room. Or you could just pick the lock. Or disable the dongle check. Pirates FTW.

2013-01-31 Reply Admin

ConC:
Hello Cyclops,
I know the term grammarnazi has found its way into internet jargon, but I just feel this term is wrong in a way.

Nazis where not just strikt to whomever they opposed. The murder of millions und the unmeasurable suffering that was caused by the nazis should not be forgotten. Using the term nazi for something not even closely as horrible, really could hurt peoples feelings, as it may look like downplaying the huge crime that was commited.

It would be thoughtful, if you could forgo from using this term in this way.

Thank you for reading.

ConC

No soup for you!

2013-01-31 Reply Admin

Steve The Cynic:
Dongles. Bah.
As Duncan says, from a simple "can we run it" point of view, the PBX ("Private Branch Exchange") could act as a dongle, but only if the PBX cannot be used at all without the software. If the PBX is capable of completely autonomous normal operation, then the (optional) software, if it is to be a chargeable option, cannot use the "PBX-as-dongle" option.[1]

I think he means "their new shiny software won't run without the DBX itself, so no need to use dongle to protect the software.

2013-01-31 Reply Admin

A friend of mine worked at an engineering company that had, among other things, a $15,000 flatbed plotter that did up to 2A0 size paper. This plotter required some fairly serious, totally custom software to drive it. In their wisdom, the vendors required a $2 dongle to, uh, "protect" the software, completely ignoring the fact that it already required a $15,000 dongle in order to function.

(The $2 dongle also had all the usual problems that dongles have. Luckily the plotter manufacturers may have known a bit about building plotters but knew nothing about working with dongles, so a 1-byte patch was enough to disable it).

2013-01-31 Reply Admin

Nice. So US was that behind in those days. When in the USSR they were buying digital phone stations, with, yes, computer control. Buying it from Finland, most probably from Nokia.

2013-02-01 Reply Admin

Vlad Patryshev:
Nice. So US was that behind in those days.

The article has hints that the company was Canadian. Canadian telcos had particularly suicidal managements in those days.

2013-02-01 Reply Admin

jay:
ConC:
Hello Cyclops,
I know the term grammarnazi has found its way into internet jargon, but I just feel this term is wrong in a way.

Nazis where not just strikt to whomever they opposed. The murder of millions und the unmeasurable suffering that was caused by the nazis should not be forgotten. Using the term nazi for something not even closely as horrible, really could hurt peoples feelings, as it may look like downplaying the huge crime that was commited.

It would be thoughtful, if you could forgo from using this term in this way.

Thank you for reading.

ConC

Also, please stop using phrases like "killing a process" and "stealing some time", as these also trivialize serious crimes. And calling an operating system "Unix" makes light of the suffering inflicted on harem guards. And referring to an unprofitable year by saying "the budget is in the red" is clearly anti-Native American slander. And the C programming language should be renamed, as that name no doubt brings up painful memories for people who failed to get A's and B's when they were in school. And as a Norwegian-American, I am deeply offended by the use of the name "Vikings" for sports teams, especially when accompanied by cartoon depictions of my ancestors that mock my heritage.

This comment thread certainly took a turn for the bizarre.

Alex, Remy, can we please get upvote buttons in the comments section now?

I would augue that I come for the articles, but I stay for the comments.

2013-02-01 Reply Admin

RichP:
Mr X:
I once had some software that was tied to the computer's MAC address - you had to register the address with the vendor to get a license file. Total pain, as we wanted to move the license around several PCs depending on who needed the software that day.
We opted for an easier option - USB network adapters (20 bucks each), registered those, then used them as dongles. License conformance with much lower headaches.

Even better option:

License one machine in a cabinet/server rack/closet/unused cubicle with a "do not shut this PC off" sign on the monitor.

Remote Desktop into the machine (or VNC for applications that think Remote Desktop = Terminal Server = license workaround).

Would be a great idea normally - but for our use case, the software had to run on computers which weren't network-connected. And it would have been near impossible to crack the protection on this software, trust me.

Steve The Cynic · 2013-02-01 Reply Admin

Cheong:
Steve The Cynic:
Dongles. Bah.
As Duncan says, from a simple "can we run it" point of view, the PBX ("Private Branch Exchange") could act as a dongle, but only if the PBX cannot be used at all without the software. If the PBX is capable of completely autonomous normal operation, then the (optional) software, if it is to be a chargeable option, cannot use the "PBX-as-dongle" option.[1]

I think he means "their new shiny software won't run without the DBX itself, so no need to use dongle to protect the software.

I'm well aware of that. The PBX doesn't protect the software if you can trivially use the PBX without the software, and the software merely requires *a* PBX in order to function.

Either the software is free[1] and ships with every PBX, in which case the question of piracy is moot because all people who could use the software (i.e. all owners of the particular PBX) will already have a copy, OR it is a chargeable option[2], in which case the mere presence of the PBX is not sufficient. The PBX must have some sort of permission bits (the active part of the dongle) in order to enable or disable relevant parts of the software, or I just grab a copy of your CD and install it in my network to control my PBX.

Summary: if you wish to "protect" the software, you need a dongle somewhere. If you don't want a "pure" dongle, you must embed the dongleness of the dongle in the PBX, i.e. the PBX must really be a dongle.

[1] Free as in beer, not free as in speech, and of course that really means "included in the price of the PBX".

[2] Other posts suggest that this is frequently the case, and the price is usually eyewateringly large.

2013-02-01 Reply Admin

wernsey:
jay:
ConC:
Hello Cyclops,
I know the term grammarnazi has found its way into internet jargon, but I just feel this term is wrong in a way.

Nazis where not just strikt to whomever they opposed. The murder of millions und the unmeasurable suffering that was caused by the nazis should not be forgotten. Using the term nazi for something not even closely as horrible, really could hurt peoples feelings, as it may look like downplaying the huge crime that was commited.

It would be thoughtful, if you could forgo from using this term in this way.

Thank you for reading.

ConC

Also, please stop using phrases like "killing a process" and "stealing some time", as these also trivialize serious crimes. And calling an operating system "Unix" makes light of the suffering inflicted on harem guards. And referring to an unprofitable year by saying "the budget is in the red" is clearly anti-Native American slander. And the C programming language should be renamed, as that name no doubt brings up painful memories for people who failed to get A's and B's when they were in school. And as a Norwegian-American, I am deeply offended by the use of the name "Vikings" for sports teams, especially when accompanied by cartoon depictions of my ancestors that mock my heritage.

This comment thread certainly took a turn for the bizarre.

Alex, Remy, can we please get upvote buttons in the comments section now?

I would augue that I come for the articles, but I stay for the comments.

+1 - and this is why I miss MFD so much. The comments where the best thing about this site.

Steve The Cynic · 2013-02-01 Reply Admin

Anon:
wernsey:
jay:
ConC:
Hello Cyclops,
I know the term grammarnazi has found its way into internet jargon, but I just feel this term is wrong in a way.

Nazis where not just strikt to whomever they opposed. The murder of millions und the unmeasurable suffering that was caused by the nazis should not be forgotten. Using the term nazi for something not even closely as horrible, really could hurt peoples feelings, as it may look like downplaying the huge crime that was commited.

It would be thoughtful, if you could forgo from using this term in this way.

Thank you for reading.

ConC

Also, please stop using phrases like "killing a process" and "stealing some time", as these also trivialize serious crimes. And calling an operating system "Unix" makes light of the suffering inflicted on harem guards. And referring to an unprofitable year by saying "the budget is in the red" is clearly anti-Native American slander. And the C programming language should be renamed, as that name no doubt brings up painful memories for people who failed to get A's and B's when they were in school. And as a Norwegian-American, I am deeply offended by the use of the name "Vikings" for sports teams, especially when accompanied by cartoon depictions of my ancestors that mock my heritage.

This comment thread certainly took a turn for the bizarre.

Alex, Remy, can we please get upvote buttons in the comments section now?

I would augue that I come for the articles, but I stay for the comments.

+1 - and this is why I miss MFD so much. The comments where the best thing about this site.

I'm going to put on my grammarnazi hat (with a big "See Figure One" to ConC) and point out that you mean "were", not "where"... ;)

2013-02-01 Reply Admin

urza9814:
jay:
Steve The Cynic:
As Duncan says, from a simple "can we run it" point of view, the PBX ("Private Branch Exchange") could act as a dongle, but only if the PBX cannot be used at all without the software. If the PBX is capable of completely autonomous normal operation, then the (optional) software, if it is to be a chargeable option, cannot use the "PBX-as-dongle" option.

Well, that's backwards. When he says that the PBX is the dongle, he doesn't mean that the PBX can't be run without the software, but that the software can't be run without the PBX.

It's like why updated printer drivers are often available for free download from the manufacturer's web site. Sure, you could download the printer driver without ever buying the printer. So what? What are you going to do with it?

The point Steve The Cynic was making is that you cannot use the PBX as a dongle for the software if they sell the software as an optional upgrade. So if the PBX alone is $X (I have no idea how much these things cost) and the PBX plus the software is $X+Y, then if you use the PBX itself as a dongle, customers could theoretically save $Y by buying the PBX alone and then pirating the software.

Okay, I'll concede that one.

2013-02-01 Reply Admin

PBX use proprietary signal/command for programming. Software specifically made for one brand of PBX usually won't run for the others (unless the software specially made to support multiple kinds of PBX).

2013-02-02 Reply Admin

shake:
I've had to use software like that - with the added bonus that when running it will only recognize the MAC of a currently connected interface. So if you register it on the eth0 MAC because you normally use a wired network, as soon as you go mobile and are using the wlan0 interface instead, you can no longer run the program. Or if you anticipate that and register it with the wifi MAC, when you go back to wired to transfer things faster over the local network, it stops working. Thanks, AGI!

This is all very strange to me, I've never had any trouble changing the MAC address of an interface. One the other hand long ago some programs tried to identify the computer by looking at installed hardware. So if you changed anything, or say the floppy controller on the MB died, you were SOL.

Ten years ago I was using a ICE (two of them actually), the hardware and software were sold together, but was keyed to the hardware. All well and good except to get a license code to unlock the ICE required you call the distributor, who would fax the info to Germany, who would then fax the number back a day later, etc. And the emulator would lost it's mind and forget who it was every couple of months.

2013-02-04 Reply Admin

"D o n g l e n e s s"

+1

WhiskeyJack · 2013-02-04 Reply Admin

Norman Diamond:
Vlad Patryshev:
Nice. So US was that behind in those days.
The article has hints that the company was Canadian. Canadian telcos had particularly suicidal managements in those days.

Ooooooh, Fido!

Hatshepsut · 2013-02-08 Reply Admin

Ivan Godard:
Longstanding practice. At Burroughs circa 1970, the difference between a B2500 and a B3500 (COBOL-oriented commercial computers) was one wire strapping the clock on the B2500.
And around $250,000 1970 dollars.

But is that really the whole story?

Isn't it just possible that the B2500 was the same design populated with lower-spec devices?

(Anyway, according to Wikipedia the B3500 had a lot more memory.)

2013-03-09 Reply Admin

Macro popacro.

Coyne · 2013-12-27 Reply Admin

Simon:
Coyne:
So what do we see? Copy protection on the print drivers. No Linux drivers because some software pirate might steal them and Linux has no DRM. CD's with license codes.
Taken all in all, it is clear that the printer manufacturers have no idea what is in their best interest...

On the contrary, it's not in their interests for people to print things - it's for people to use (and thus purchase more of) their ink/toner cartridges. And maintaining close control over the drivers is one of the elements that allows them to discourage the use of cheaper third-party cartridges. They know what they're doing.

You misunderstand. I'm not talking about the software that runs on the printer: I'm talking about the O/S-specific driver that runs on the PC/tablet/smartphone/etc; the driver that allows text to be sent to the printer from your word processing program.

(Those drivers don't actually have anything to do with the cartridge. If you want users to buy your brand of cartridge for sure, you fix the in-printer software so it will only work with your cartridge; like Lexmark does.)

The more devices the user can hook to the printer, the more likely they are to print things; the more they print, the more cartridges you sell. So telling the user, "The only thing you can hook to our printer is one (1) Windows machine," is counterproductive, because you're actually preventing them from printing from their other devices. Why would you do that?

Yet printer manufacturers impose restrictions like that because they seem to have the mistaken impression they are selling O/S print drivers.

The Biggest Boon-Dongle in the World

Leave a comment on “The Biggest Boon-Dongle in the World”