• derek (unregistered) in reply to AMerrickanGirl

    troll

  • AdT (unregistered) in reply to CorporateWTFery
    Blobster:
    why shirk away from a given language merely because of it's reputation?

    There are no apostrophes in possessive pronouns.

    CorporateWTFery:
    That's all well and good if those in control of IT aren't total Nazi's.

    There are no apostrophes in plurals either. It's just a Grammar Nazi's observation.

    CorporateWTFery:
    And since things are (rightly) locked down in the company, that means business areas can't just willy nilly create their own database servers running MySQL.

    And therefore you just slam a JET database onto the next available file share? Brillant idea! That's certainly much more secure than using any kind of database server. Hence "rightly locked down".

    CorporateWTFery:
    Not if corporate IT won't let you. Once again, exactly what kind of background do you have? Such wise words coming from you...

    If someone tells me to clean the toilet with a toothbrush, or to build any non-trivial, or any multi-user application on top of MS JET, I tell them to find another idiot to do it (politely at first, of course). It's sad to hear that you aren't in a position to choose, though.

    CorporateWTFery:
    More often than not, they want 200 page cost evaluated upfront proposals before they'll even talk to you, and only them can't promise anything for at least 6 quarters. Yes I'm talking big corporate environments. Been there. Wish it was an embellishment, but it's not.

    My employer, on the other hand, got a contract from a big corporation for replacing an atrocious, non-scalable, non-maintainable Access "application"* with a real one based on ADO.NET.

    *) Yes, with all the good stuff you expect, such as:

    • Densely packed and incomprehensible GUI using all colors of the rainbow (the least aesthetic ones being used the most)
    • Non-normalized table with 200+ columns, only a fraction of which was used in any one row
    • JET database on file share that would completely break down when more than a handful of users would connect simultaneously
    • Inconsistencies galore as transactions and constraints are for cowards
    • Documentation? What the hell is that?
    CorporateWTFery:
    What's a manager to do? Many teams then hire rubbish contractors who develop crappy little access programs because it's quicker and cheaper. Then the real IT department gets to support the crap app and probably develop it properly. For the life of me I, despite IT policy's forbidding Access, it still creeps in there.

    Yes, Access is here to stay. So is rape. That's no reason to defend either of them.

  • AdT (unregistered) in reply to AMerrickanGirl
    AMerrickanGirl:
    So no programmer should agree to help a small business develop a database using Access and VBA if that's all they can afford? Or create some small apps for a department in a large company that can't get approval or funding for the IT department to build a more robust application?

    That's a perfect description of bottom feeding in software development. So how many "talented professionals" are willing to do that given that actual talented professionals can find many other job opportunities that don't cost them as much self-respect?

    AMerrickanGirl:
    There's a market for these databases

    There's a market for child prostitution as well so it can't be all that bad.</sarcasm>

    AMerrickanGirl:
    I am plagued with maintaining one app from hell that is an Access front end with (get this) TWO back ends - one is Access and one is SQL Server

    So you are a talented Access professional but still manage to confuse Access (the front end) with JET, the bundled back end? Weird.

    AMerrickanGirl:
    So yes, we who develop in Access recognize that it's not the proper tool for many situations, and we know bad code when we see it.

    But it's nice of you to mention another Access abomination yourself. Now that we know that Access is not the proper tool for some jobs, may I ask for which jobs Access is the proper tool? Cooking recipe databases come to mind, but at least on the planet I live on, writing recipe databases is not a primary occupation of talented software professionals.

    TakeASeatOverThere:
    But they want to be professionals. I see...

    "Wash me, but don't make me wet." - translation of German proverb

    IOW: If you stop being better, you stop being good. It's rather sad that so many people refuse to realize this. All the talent in the world is not going to help you if you lack the professional will to learn and improve.

  • AdT (unregistered) in reply to AMerrickanGirl
    AMerrickanGirl:
    So no programmer should agree to help a small business develop a database using Access and VBA if that's all they can afford? Or create some small apps for a department in a large company that can't get approval or funding for the IT department to build a more robust application?

    That's a perfect description of bottom feeding in software development. So how many "talented professionals" are willing to do that given that actual talented professionals can find many other job opportunities that don't cost them as much self-respect?

    AMerrickanGirl:
    There's a market for these databases

    There's a market for child prostitution as well so it can't be all that bad.</sarcasm>

    AMerrickanGirl:
    I am plagued with maintaining one app from hell that is an Access front end with (get this) TWO back ends - one is Access and one is SQL Server

    So you are a talented Access professional but still manage to confuse Access (the front end) with JET, the bundled back end? Weird.

    AMerrickanGirl:
    So yes, we who develop in Access recognize that it's not the proper tool for many situations, and we know bad code when we see it.

    But it's nice of you to mention another Access abomination yourself. Now that we know that Access is not the proper tool for some jobs, may I ask for which jobs Access is the proper tool? Cooking recipe databases come to mind, but at least on the planet I live on, writing recipe databases is not a primary occupation of talented software professionals.

    TakeASeatOverThere:
    But they want to be professionals. I see...

    "Wash me, but don't make me wet." - translation of German proverb

    IOW: If you stop being better, you stop being good. It's rather sad that so many people refuse to realize this. All the talent in the world is not going to help you if you lack the professional will to learn and improve.

  • AdT (unregistered)

    I swear I only hit the Submit button once. Sorry for the inconvenience!

  • (cs) in reply to AMerrickanGirl

    MySQL is free. It works with VB. It works with Windows. PostgreSQL is also free. It also works with VB and with Windows.

    You must be a VBA weenie. You must think that "SQL" means MS-SQL. You've apparently missed other products like Oracle, PostgreSQL, and MYSQL. Somehow you missed the definition of "free". I'd be horrified to find that you worked for me....

  • Kuba (unregistered) in reply to AdT
    AdT:
    AMerrickanGirl:
    So no programmer should agree to help a small business develop a database using Access and VBA if that's all they can afford? Or create some small apps for a department in a large company that can't get approval or funding for the IT department to build a more robust application?

    That's a perfect description of bottom feeding in software development. So how many "talented professionals" are willing to do that given that actual talented professionals can find many other job opportunities that don't cost them as much self-respect?

    WTF?! What's wrong with doing what the customer wants, for a reasonable price? It doesn't have to be done in a WTFy way just because it's simple and un-enterprisey...

    AMerrickanGirl:
    There's a market for these databases

    There's a market for child prostitution as well so it can't be all that bad.</sarcasm>

    You're way off base, methinks. I have a mechanical engineer working at a desk maybe 20 feet from me, and he has made quite a good production tracking database in Access. Quite un-WTFy if you ask me, I'd actually bet that a lot of CS students would design it much worse.

    AMerrickanGirl:
    I am plagued with maintaining one app from hell that is an Access front end with (get this) TWO back ends - one is Access and one is SQL Server

    So you are a talented Access professional but still manage to confuse Access (the front end) with JET, the bundled back end? Weird.

    I'd say that many people say "Access back-end" and mean JET, and while technically incorrect, it may not necessarily indicate that they are inept.

    AMerrickanGirl:
    So yes, we who develop in Access recognize that it's not the proper tool for many situations, and we know bad code when we see it.

    But it's nice of you to mention another Access abomination yourself. Now that we know that Access is not the proper tool for some jobs, may I ask for which jobs Access is the proper tool? Cooking recipe databases come to mind, but at least on the planet I live on, writing recipe databases is not a primary occupation of talented software professionals.

    A shared production tracker database, used by 3-4 people at a time, for example. Works perfectly fine.

    TakeASeatOverThere:
    But they want to be professionals. I see...

    "Wash me, but don't make me wet." - translation of German proverb

    IOW: If you stop being better, you stop being good. It's rather sad that so many people refuse to realize this. All the talent in the world is not going to help you if you lack the professional will to learn and improve.

    I agree that there is a lot of abominable Access and VB applications out there, just as there are a lot of abominable C++, Perl and Python apps out there. That fact in and of itself doesn't necessarily mean that anyone who develops in Access is a talentless un-professional who should be routinely derided. Such attitude is childish. I'm all for technical excellence, but you have to maintain sanity and a balanced view of the world. It ain't all bad out there, ya know.

    I would, in fact, posit, that LabView developers should be bashed more than say VB/Access developers. They usually have some technical prowess and I'd expect them to point-and-drag much better "code" than I usually get to see. Lot of them are grad students ;) Way more VB/Access "developers" have next to no technical knowledge, so I'd not necessarily expect anything good from them ;)

  • antred (unregistered) in reply to Code Dependent

    Yeah, and you would know, because you've studied every single VB app out there, right?

  • antred (unregistered)

    Never fucking mind, this was meant to be a reply to one of the guys ranting about how all VB developers most obviously be monkeys unfit to code anything.

  • Maine (unregistered)

    I need to know more about this. I'm embroiled in a situation not unlike this, except no one has shut it down yet. Does anyone know who the developer of that horrible software was?

  • Mitur Binesderty (unregistered)

    Well clearly all C++ programmers have small penises and huge vaginas if they are so threatened by something so simple as a language.

    And to the troll, yes I am a VB programmer. And a C# programmer. And a Java programmer. And a C/C++ programmer. And an assembly programmer. And a Pascal programmer. And so on, and so on, and so on.

    Open your mind before you open your mouth and you'll sound like less of a fool.

  • Andy (unregistered)

    As a carpenter friend once told me, "No true craftsman blames his tools."

    VBA is aimed at quick-and-dirty solutions written by the less technically proficient; however, it isn't limited to these situations. Thus, it attracts those with fewer skills. But it doesn't make it all bad. I recently had to write an Access front-end. I didn't want to use Access, but that was the requirement. So I went out of my way to make sure the program fits the typical, non-Luna/Aero Windows UI that is the corporate standard at $COMPANY_NAME.

    If anything, TRWTF is that the background of my CAPTCHA is just as retina-burning as InterApp's UI. Bright purple with a gradient to bright pink.

  • w/e (unregistered) in reply to AMerrickanGirl
    AMerrickanGirl:
    HerrSchmidt:
    Well, to me "Visual Basic development" is an oxymoron, like "Microsoft Works"...

    I'm tired of people lumping all VB apps and all VB programmers into one dismal group. There are plenty of well designed VB apps developed by talented professionals. You just don't hear about them on the Daily WTF.

    HijacThis was developed in VB :)
  • w/e (unregistered) in reply to AMerrickanGirl
    AMerrickanGirl:
    HerrSchmidt:
    Well, to me "Visual Basic development" is an oxymoron, like "Microsoft Works"...

    I'm tired of people lumping all VB apps and all VB programmers into one dismal group. There are plenty of well designed VB apps developed by talented professionals. You just don't hear about them on the Daily WTF.

    HijacThis was developed in VB :)

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