• (cs)

    That's not "family-friendly" - that's family-ecstatic!

  • tinny (unregistered) in reply to Q
    Q:
    TRWTF is all you punks hating on anyone who's ever been to jail.

    WTF makes you all think every person who's ever been incarcerated will just up and steal data and wreck businesses, or make welding mistakes. The two aren't related.

    Discriminatory losers.

    To an extent I agree with you. But when selecting candidates, employers only have a potential employee's track record to base their decision on.

    Normally, a CV ('resume' for the septics) is used to demonstrate achievements and employment history etc... Whilst they may have served their punishment, you simply cannot ignore the fact that if a candidate has spent time at Her Majesty's pleasure, then that shows that they've (at least once) broken the law. Someone with a good track record, or someone else with a less than good track record- Who do you employ?

  • Bashy McGee (unregistered) in reply to anarchist

    I'm fairly certain that battery is frowned upon a bit more harshly than breaches of EEO hiring practices.

  • (cs) in reply to Q
    Q:
    TRWTF is all you punks hating on anyone who's ever been to jail.

    WTF makes you all think every person who's ever been incarcerated will just up and steal data and wreck businesses, or make welding mistakes. The two aren't related.

    Discriminatory losers.

    You know what? You're absolutely right. It was very wrong of us to say that people who have been to jail would be more likely to steal sensitive information when given free access to a company's system, even when the case in point is a programmer who is currently in jail, for money issues, and asking for access to a company's system so he can get out of jail.

    </sarcasm></lies></jibe>

  • imgx64 (unregistered)

    Can someone please type the handwritten letter? I can't read cursive for my life, it looks like gibberish to me.

  • wtf (unregistered) in reply to anonymous
    anonymous:
    Anonymous:
    jasmine2501:
    Yes, all of those questions are illegal - not illegal to ask though. You can ask anything you want in an interview, but there's a whole class of stuff you aren't supposed to use to make the hiring decision. However, if you asked it, the assumption is that you're going to use the information, and that it might influence your decision in some subtle way even if it's not 'officially' used in a hiring decision. You are much better off not asking. And yes, if someone asked me any of those questions they would be hearing from a lawyer.
    You'd honestly try to litigate? That's ridiculous, I'd just move on to the next interview and forget about it. What would be the charge? Would you try to sue them for money or what? Forgive me, I don't really understand the US culture of litigation, but I don't see you could legitimately claim for compensation so what's the point? What's your endgame?
    I made the reply below yours, but I think to answer your question: laziness - people don't want to work and getting money from a lawsuite is easier

    Typically, no, it's not. It takes a long time and the legal costs are substantial. However, since employment discrimination is illegal in the US, a lawyer approaching a company with the threat of a lawsuit and reasonably solid prima facie evidence of discriminatory questioning stands a reasonable chance of getting some sort of settlement. This is actually a useful means of enforcement. A company wanting to avoid this sort of suit will be inclined to follow certain rules, such as not asking a potential employee questions not related to performance of the job, and there's no real cost to the state for the service.

    Sounds fair to me.

  • ctw (unregistered) in reply to Shoruke
    Shoruke:
    Heaven help the idiot employer who hires a criminal and doesn't make backups...

    Not making backups is a bad call regardless of how many criminals you have on staff.

  • (cs) in reply to Anonymous
    Anonymous:
    jasmine2501:
    Yes, all of those questions are illegal - not illegal to ask though. You can ask anything you want in an interview, but there's a whole class of stuff you aren't supposed to use to make the hiring decision. However, if you asked it, the assumption is that you're going to use the information, and that it might influence your decision in some subtle way even if it's not 'officially' used in a hiring decision. You are much better off not asking. And yes, if someone asked me any of those questions they would be hearing from a lawyer.
    You'd honestly try to litigate? That's ridiculous, I'd just move on to the next interview and forget about it. What would be the charge? Would you try to sue them for money or what? Forgive me, I don't really understand the US culture of litigation, but I don't see you could legitimately claim for compensation so what's the point? What's your endgame?
    True, a lawsuit wouldn't make a whole lot of sense here, at least not to me. They wouldn't hear from my lawyer, but I expect after I file some sort of complaint, the department of labor would probably be knocking down their door.
  • Jellineck (unregistered) in reply to imgx64
    imgx64:
    Can someone please type the handwritten letter? I can't read cursive for my life, it looks like gibberish to me.

    Man up, Nancy.

  • Anonymous (unregistered) in reply to An English Gentleman

    Personally, I don't think I've ever heard anyone say "curriculum vitae", only "CV." Perhaps you Brits aren't smart enough to pronounce it?

    I keed, I keed.

  • mackenziema (unregistered) in reply to jasmine2501

    Oddly enough, my wife was a "Parenthood Training Instructor", long before she had kids. (Psychology PhD)

  • Mark (unregistered) in reply to mackenziema
    mackenziema:
    Oddly enough, my wife was a "Parenthood Training Instructor", long before she had kids. (Psychology PhD)
    Was she any good?
  • Anonymous Coward (unregistered)

    I have a great opening for someone to design a file system. (Applications from jail welcome.)

  • The Judge (unregistered) in reply to Q
    Q:
    TRWTF is all you punks hating on anyone who's ever been to jail.

    WTF makes you all think every person who's ever been incarcerated will just up and steal data and wreck businesses, or make welding mistakes. The two aren't related.

    Discriminatory losers.

    TRWTF is people who have a rosy picture of prison.

    People are put in jail because they are unable to live within the rules of society. If someone breaks society's rules (and does it so that it warrants a penalty worse than simple probation or a fine), what makes you think they can exist within a business environment?

  • boog (unregistered) in reply to The Judge
    The Judge:
    Q:
    TRWTF is all you punks hating on anyone who's ever been to jail.

    WTF makes you all think every person who's ever been incarcerated will just up and steal data and wreck businesses, or make welding mistakes. The two aren't related.

    Discriminatory losers.

    TRWTF is people who have a rosy picture of prison.

    People are put in jail because they are unable to live within the rules of society. If someone breaks society's rules (and does it so that it warrants a penalty worse than simple probation or a fine), what makes you think they can exist within a business environment?

    Personally, when I see those guys in orange jumpsuits on the side of the freeway, I try to hit them with whatever beverage I have on-hand. Try it! It's fun, and as long as it's not hot coffee, it's not even against the law!

  • (cs) in reply to Anonymous
    Anonymous:
    You'd honestly try to litigate? That's ridiculous, I'd just move on to the next interview and forget about it. What would be the charge? Would you try to sue them for money or what? Forgive me, I don't really understand the US culture of litigation, but I don't see you could legitimately claim for compensation so what's the point? What's your endgame?
    If the job is otherwise desirable (higher pay and better benefits, for example), and you were a good fit other than lacking a family, then of course you have standing to sue them. You were unfairly denied a job. This caused you to spend more time unemployed, or to have to take a lesser job, etc. That all has monetary value, and you can certainly get compensation for it, in theory anyway. (In practice, it can be hard to prove anything, but this seems very blatant.) Since it's against the law, they may also have to pay fines.

    The main benefit is not necessarily to you, but to others, since the company will be forced to change its hiring practices to be more fair to future applicants.

  • frits (unregistered) in reply to boog
    boog:
    The Judge:
    Q:
    TRWTF is all you punks hating on anyone who's ever been to jail.

    WTF makes you all think every person who's ever been incarcerated will just up and steal data and wreck businesses, or make welding mistakes. The two aren't related.

    Discriminatory losers.

    TRWTF is people who have a rosy picture of prison.

    People are put in jail because they are unable to live within the rules of society. If someone breaks society's rules (and does it so that it warrants a penalty worse than simple probation or a fine), what makes you think they can exist within a business environment?

    Personally, when I see those guys in orange jumpsuits on the side of the freeway, I try to hit them with whatever beverage I have on-hand. Try it! It's fun, and as long as it's not hot coffee, it's not even against the law!
    Let my son know the next time you visit McDonalds. I've instructed him to urinate in your orange juice.

  • boog (unregistered) in reply to frits
    frits:
    boog:
    The Judge:
    Q:
    TRWTF is all you punks hating on anyone who's ever been to jail.

    WTF makes you all think every person who's ever been incarcerated will just up and steal data and wreck businesses, or make welding mistakes. The two aren't related.

    Discriminatory losers.

    TRWTF is people who have a rosy picture of prison.

    People are put in jail because they are unable to live within the rules of society. If someone breaks society's rules (and does it so that it warrants a penalty worse than simple probation or a fine), what makes you think they can exist within a business environment?

    Personally, when I see those guys in orange jumpsuits on the side of the freeway, I try to hit them with whatever beverage I have on-hand. Try it! It's fun, and as long as it's not hot coffee, it's not even against the law!
    Let my son know the next time you visit McDonalds. I've instructed him to urinate in your orange juice.
    Actually, urine and bodily fluids are two more liquids that are not legal to throw on them.

  • Worf (unregistered) in reply to Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward:
    I have a great opening for someone to design a file system. (Applications from jail welcome.)

    I see you're looking for the killer file system.

    (I wonder how long until someone spills the reference)

  • dave (unregistered) in reply to anarchist

    Legal in some states, illegal in others.

  • CodeNinja (unregistered) in reply to boog

    Littering is too against the law!

  • (cs) in reply to anon
    anon:
    Regardless I'm reasonably certain that it's illegal to discriminate on hiring based on marital status.
    It is actually illegal just to ask the question. You are not allowed to ask if somebody is married, sexual preference, has children, nationality or religion.
  • PRMan (unregistered) in reply to The Daily WTF
    The Daily WTF:
    When it comes to commenting, I am the master!

    Actually, the irony is as thick as maple soup: he advertises (with a pencil, on lined paper) that he is a master of electronic data.

    You did get that he was in JAIL, right? Probably without access to computers as part of his sentence.

  • boog (unregistered) in reply to frits
    frits:
    boog:
    The Judge:
    Q:
    TRWTF is all you punks hating on anyone who's ever been to jail.

    WTF makes you all think every person who's ever been incarcerated will just up and steal data and wreck businesses, or make welding mistakes. The two aren't related.

    Discriminatory losers.

    TRWTF is people who have a rosy picture of prison.

    People are put in jail because they are unable to live within the rules of society. If someone breaks society's rules (and does it so that it warrants a penalty worse than simple probation or a fine), what makes you think they can exist within a business environment?

    Personally, when I see those guys in orange jumpsuits on the side of the freeway, I try to hit them with whatever beverage I have on-hand. Try it! It's fun, and as long as it's not hot coffee, it's not even against the law!
    Let my son know the next time you visit McDonalds. I've instructed him to urinate in your orange juice.
    I'm on my way to work, while this guy gets to meander around all day in the sunshine. I figure covering him in sticky liquid is a good way to even the score.

  • Mr. S. (unregistered) in reply to Worf
    Worf:
    Anonymous Coward:
    I have a great opening for someone to design a file system. (Applications from jail welcome.)

    I see you're looking for the killer file system.

    (I wonder how long until someone spills the reference)

    I'm not sure they let you mess with the OS in prison. You might just have to write it in your journal

  • Franz Kafka (unregistered) in reply to The Judge
    The Judge:
    Q:
    TRWTF is all you punks hating on anyone who's ever been to jail.

    WTF makes you all think every person who's ever been incarcerated will just up and steal data and wreck businesses, or make welding mistakes. The two aren't related.

    Discriminatory losers.

    TRWTF is people who have a rosy picture of prison.

    People are put in jail because they are unable to live within the rules of society. If someone breaks society's rules (and does it so that it warrants a penalty worse than simple probation or a fine), what makes you think they can exist within a business environment?

    For instance, getting behind on child support. So we stick them in jail, but don't reduce the child support unless they have money for a lawyer, so they're even more fucked.

    Then, when they get out, they get to deal with pontificating blowhards who wonder why they don't get a decent job already.

  • PRMan (unregistered) in reply to boog
    boog:
    The Judge:
    Q:
    TRWTF is all you punks hating on anyone who's ever been to jail.

    WTF makes you all think every person who's ever been incarcerated will just up and steal data and wreck businesses, or make welding mistakes. The two aren't related.

    Discriminatory losers.

    TRWTF is people who have a rosy picture of prison.

    People are put in jail because they are unable to live within the rules of society. If someone breaks society's rules (and does it so that it warrants a penalty worse than simple probation or a fine), what makes you think they can exist within a business environment?

    Personally, when I see those guys in orange jumpsuits on the side of the freeway, I try to hit them with whatever beverage I have on-hand. Try it! It's fun, and as long as it's not hot coffee, it's not even against the law!

    Actually, hitting people with liquids without their consent can be assault. If you have followed the "Officer Bubbles" case, it is exactly about how ticky-tack the "assault" charge is for repeatedly hitting the officer with bubbles.

  • Bert Glanstron (unregistered)

    To Whom it May Concern,

    I am currently incarcerated in the Ada County jail, where I was ordered to participate in the work release program until I have brought my FIDONet payments current. Before I can enter the program, however, I must first find a job. I saw your ad on thedailywtf.com for commenting specialist and would like to ask that I be considered for a position. As you will see from my resume, I have extensive experience managing a lawn care BBS. When it comes to FIDONet, I am the master! I have experience with the following:

    DOS ZMODEM WWIV FIDONet BBS VT100 MUDs

    Position Objective I am interested in a position as a commenter, or any other position for which my skills would be applicable.

    Sincerely, Bert Glanstron

  • English Bob (unregistered) in reply to The Judge
    The Judge:
    TRWTF is people who have a rosy picture of prison.

    People are put in jail because they are unable to live within the rules of society. If someone breaks society's rules (and does it so that it warrants a penalty worse than simple probation or a fine), what makes you think they can exist within a business environment?

    Yeah, some people just need locking up for the good of society.

  • Dave (unregistered) in reply to wtf

    TRWTF is having a child and not supporting that child. Maybe if more men took their responsibilities as fathers and men more seriously, we'd have fewer screwed up kids.

  • Dazed (unregistered) in reply to tinny
    tinny:
    Whilst they may have served their punishment, you simply cannot ignore the fact that if a candidate has spent time at Her Majesty's pleasure, then that shows that they've (at least once) broken the law.
    Firstly, that is not true, especially in the US where the legal system seems to be a lot more broken than most countries. Many innocent people have been executed there and many more imprisoned.

    But even ignoring that, surely a major question is what was he imprisoned for? If it was computer fraud, then your concerns are surely justified. If it was some other form of theft, then probably better to keep him away from the production financial systems, but maybe you can use him as a developer.

    But maybe he's just been put behind bars for possession of cannabis - something which in a sane society wouldn't be illegal in the first place. Are you going to refuse to consider him then?

  • Charles Boyung (unregistered) in reply to DWalker59
    DWalker59:
    "Family-Friendly" shouldn't mean that you are REQUIRED to have a family! How weird. Does he want to get together and compare notes on childbirth, sex techniques, etc.?

    Quote: "I don't think that word means what you think it means". (The word, of course, is "Inconceivable")

    And the WTF here is that you felt the need to put the content you did in parentheses. If someone doesn't know THAT, they aren't going to get the quote anyways.

  • Lego (unregistered) in reply to Zaratustra
    Zaratustra:
    Keep in mind welder errors are usually self-correcting (by removing the welder or parts thereof), while a IT guy's mistake will only rarely burn said IT guy's arm off.

    Welders are also generally tested and certified by an independent 3rd party licensing body, and on critical projects their work is usually subject to 100% inspection (dye penetration, ultrasonic, x-ray, etc.)

    Having worked in both professions, I have significantly more confidence in most welders welds than in most programmer's code.

    -Lego

  • frits (unregistered) in reply to Bert Glanstron
    Bert Glanstron:
    To Whom it May Concern,

    I am currently incarcerated in the Ada County jail, where I was ordered to participate in the work release program until I have brought my FIDONet payments current. Before I can enter the program, however, I must first find a job. I saw your ad on thedailywtf.com for commenting specialist and would like to ask that I be considered for a position. As you will see from my resume, I have extensive experience managing a lawn care BBS. When it comes to FIDONet, I am the master! I have experience with the following:

    DOS ZMODEM WWIV FIDONet BBS VT100 MUDs

    Position Objective I am interested in a position as a commenter, or any other position for which my skills would be applicable.

    Sincerely, Bert Glanstron

    So now we know!

  • (cs) in reply to frits
    frits (unregistered):
    boog (unregistered):
    Personally, when I see those guys in orange jumpsuits on the side of the freeway, I try to hit them with whatever beverage I have on-hand. Try it! It's fun, and as long as it's not hot coffee, it's not even against the law!
    Let my son know the next time you visit McDonalds. I've instructed him to urinate in your orange juice.
    It's times like these I wish I didn't have this impostor lurking about. My orange juice tasted horrible this morning.
  • PHB (unregistered) in reply to Dazed
    Dazed:
    he's just been put behind bars for possession of cannabis. Are you going to refuse to consider him then?
    Absolutely. Only a fool would hire a person with a history of abusing drugs or alcohol. As a side note, Barack Obamas is proof that most American voters are idiots.
  • Billy The Squid (unregistered) in reply to Franz Kafka
    Franz Kafka:
    The Judge:
    Q:
    TRWTF is all you punks hating on anyone who's ever been to jail.

    WTF makes you all think every person who's ever been incarcerated will just up and steal data and wreck businesses, or make welding mistakes. The two aren't related.

    Discriminatory losers.

    TRWTF is people who have a rosy picture of prison.

    People are put in jail because they are unable to live within the rules of society. If someone breaks society's rules (and does it so that it warrants a penalty worse than simple probation or a fine), what makes you think they can exist within a business environment?

    For instance, getting behind on child support. So we stick them in jail, but don't reduce the child support unless they have money for a lawyer, so they're even more fucked.

    Then, when they get out, they get to deal with pontificating blowhards who wonder why they don't get a decent job already.

    There's also the idea that being charged with a crime doesn't necessarily allow the individual the freedom to return to work on a regular schedule - unless they can be bailed out / have the terms of their release set, they reside "within the system", often being transported to and from the courthouse to the holding facility (jail).

    If they are bailed out and allowed free, they're treated as guilty, and are often "relieved" of their job sooner or later - whether legally or not, it happens.

    Even the innocent can end up in jail waiting for "the system" to prove they did not do anything wrong / illegal. In the meantime, they're screwed. When it's over and done with, many have no job to go back to - if you could only go to work 2-3 days a week for a month while you were dealing with legal issues, would you find that your position were suddenly no longer available to you, as you couldn't complete your required duties in the time allotted? You're now a statistic.

    Good friend of mine was charged with assault. His girlfriend was mad at him at one point, called the cops to "teach him a lesson", and while dealing with it all, he lost his job. Set him up to fail once people found out he was charged with "domestic assault" and "abuse" (it was all a crock, she was eventually proven to have lied, got a fine, slap on the wrist).. He didn't want to stay there with "Accusing eyes" in all his co-workers, and quite honestly, i can't say I blame him. I'd probably have a lawyer involved, but I did buy him a bottle of scotch to celebrate when he got his final judgement (and hers), taking it to his old employer and shoving it in their faces.

    He said they gave him a gift basket of congratulations (on being honest all along?), which was CLEARLY more of a "sorry", but he never told me what was in it or if they gave him additional compensation.

    While he was looking for work, he told me something interesting: Employers didn't ask him "Have you been convicted", part of the screening was "Have you been charged with an offense". I heard it all every week. Glad he's employed somewhere decent... Good guy.

  • (cs) in reply to amischiefr
    amischiefr:
    anon:
    Regardless I'm reasonably certain that it's illegal to discriminate on hiring based on marital status.
    It is actually illegal just to ask the question. You are not allowed to ask if somebody is married, sexual preference, has children, nationality or religion.
    I don't mind admitting it: yes, I have nationality.
  • ÃÆâ€â„ (unregistered) in reply to Remy Martin
    Remy Martin:
    Are you married? No, but I'm sure it's coming soon. What does that mean? I'm waiting for them to legalize it in my state.
    Dear Remy Martin,

    In case you can't tell, this is a grown-up place. The fact that you insist on legalizing your marriage in your state clearly shows you're too young and too stupid to be getting married.

    Go away and grow up.

    Sincerely, ÃÆâ€â„

  • frits (unregistered) in reply to ÃÆâ€â„
    ÃÆâ€â„:
    Remy Martin:
    Are you married? No, but I'm sure it's coming soon. What does that mean? I'm waiting for them to legalize it in my state.
    Dear Remy Martin,

    In case you can't tell, this is a grown-up place. The fact that you insist on legalizing your marriage in your state clearly shows you're too young and too stupid to be getting married.

    Go away and grow up.

    Sincerely, ÃÆâ€â„

    marriage is gay

  • Anonymous (unregistered) in reply to ÃÆâ€â„
    ÃÆâ€â„:
    Remy Martin:
    Are you married? No, but I'm sure it's coming soon. What does that mean? I'm waiting for them to legalize it in my state.
    Dear Remy Martin,

    In case you can't tell, this is a grown-up place. The fact that you insist on legalizing your marriage in your state clearly shows you're too young and too stupid to be getting married.

    Go away and man up.

    Sincerely, ÃÆâ€â„

  • (cs) in reply to Mr. S.
    Mr. S.:
    Worf:
    Anonymous Coward:
    I have a great opening for someone to design a file system. (Applications from jail welcome.)
    I see you're looking for the killer file system. (I wonder how long until someone spills the reference)
    I'm not sure they let you mess with the OS in prison. You might just have to write it in your journal
    this is a tricky game ... Also I don't think I'm clever enough to get away with asking if I could write the code outside in the yard on the risers.

    I'ld probably end up getting OJ with urine thrown in my face ... :p

    Ok, that one wasn't very clever, so instead I'll skip pretending to be clever enough to talk about tail-packing because then I really will look like a fool.

  • (cs)

    Q: "Do you have family?"

    A1: "Why, you crafty little sumbitch! I just knew you found me attractive!"

    A2: "That depends on your definition. Would twenty-eight cats be considered a family?"

    A3: "Not if you believe the terms of the restraining order."

    A4: "Of course not! I'm in IT!"

    A5: "Not any more." (sobbing) "They never found any pieces bigger than a pencil eraser!"

  • Kef Schecter (unregistered) in reply to Matt
    Matt:
    The point is what the person can steal, not just how badly they can screw up. Imagine hiring a felon to your worksite. One day he gets fed up and steals some tools worth a few hundred bucks and never shows up again.

    Package-deal fallacy much? Who says that being a criminal or even a felon makes you more likely to steal? (If you're convicted for stealing, yeah. But what if it was for something completely unrelated?)

  • ÃÆâ€â„ (unregistered) in reply to Anonymous
    Anonymous:
    ÃÆâ€â„:
    Remy Martin:
    Are you married? No, but I'm sure it's coming soon. What does that mean? I'm waiting for them to legalize it in my state.
    Dear Remy Martin,

    In case you can't tell, this is a grown-up place. The fact that you insist on legalizing your marriage in your state clearly shows you're too young and too stupid to be getting married.

    Go away and man up.

    Sincerely, ÃÆâ€â„

    FTFY

    FTFY
  • OldCoder (unregistered) in reply to ctw
    ctw:
    Shoruke:
    Heaven help the idiot employer who hires a criminal and doesn't make backups...

    Not making backups is a bad call regardless of how many criminals you have on staff.

    Criminals? Oh, them! They're the management.

  • (cs) in reply to boog
    boog:
    frits (unregistered):
    boog (unregistered):
    Personally, when I see those guys in orange jumpsuits on the side of the freeway, I try to hit them with whatever beverage I have on-hand. Try it! It's fun, and as long as it's not hot coffee, it's not even against the law!
    Let my son know the next time you visit McDonalds. I've instructed him to urinate in your orange juice.
    It's times like these I wish I didn't have this impostor lurking about. My orange juice tasted horrible this morning.

    I'm pretty sure that guy is responsible for about 50% of the article comments anymore.

  • One Letter Off (unregistered) in reply to frits
    frits:
    boog:
    frits:
    boog:
    Personally, when I see those guys in orange jumpsuits on the side of the freeway, I try to hit them with whatever beverage I have on-hand. Try it! It's fun, and as long as it's not hot coffee, it's not even against the law!
    Let my son know the next time you visit McDonalds. I've instructed him to urinate in your orange juice.
    It's times like these I wish I didn't have this impostor lurking about. My orange juice tasted horrible this morning.

    I'm pretty sure that gay is responsible for about 50% of the article comments anymore.

    FTFY
  • gil (unregistered) in reply to Dazed
    Dazed:
    But maybe he's just been put behind bars for possession of cannabis - something which in a sane society wouldn't be illegal in the first place. Are you going to refuse to consider him then?
    Suppose you have some coding style/standards at work. Would you be sure he wouldn't violate them? After all, he already violated some laws he didn't consider useful...
  • Larry (unregistered)

    TRWTF is he went ahead and asked about kids after the guy already said he wasn't married.

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