• grammernarzee (unregistered) in reply to Just Some Guy
    Just Some Guy:
    I worked with Ralph's brother once. There are certain advantages to being 6 feet tall and un-scrawny (real-life question presented to me: "are you a football player?"):

    Ralph's brother: Do it this (stupid, illogical) way or else. Me, standing up: Or else what, little man? Ralph's brother: [remembers that he's urgently needed somewhere]

    That wasn't our first go-round and I decided I'd had enough.

    Right. So you do business by bullying, do you? Ok I'm sure Ralph's brother was a twat. Fine. But "proving" you're right just by being taller/fatter than him is pretty sad. Perhaps this extends to your home life? Do you "convince" your wife and kids of your wisdom by giving them a good kicking?

  • yah (unregistered) in reply to PotatoEngineer
    PotatoEngineer:
    Frank Illium:
    Hehe, we all know one.

    On the moving icons on the desktop - I would be annoyed by somebody moving my icons and would move them back anyway.

    It sounds like the issue was that Ralph didn't like other people to their icons into any non-approved configuration---and there was only one approved configuration.

    This guy was just asking for someone to take a screenshot of his icons, set it as the desktop wallpaper and then delete all the icons on the screen - what an a-hole.

  • yah (unregistered) in reply to akatherder
    akatherder:
    When the next order of cartridges arrived and he had 27s that would work in printer A and printer N, he simply applied the label A to half of them, and N to the other half.

    Is anyone else curious what happens if you run out of cartridges for printer A, but have plenty left for printer N? What would Ralph do?

    He would relabel exactly half of them and if an odd number existed, you would have to walk down to Printer N until its ink ran out and then he could divide the remaining cartridges equally. (You can bet he thought it out similar to this).

  • (cs) in reply to grammernarzee
    grammernarzee:
    Right. So you do business by bullying, do you? Ok I'm sure Ralph's brother was a twat. Fine. But "proving" you're right just by being taller/fatter than him is pretty sad.
    Being tall and well-built has one advantage: people don't threaten you idly for very long. Either the original bully comes up with real justification (which should be genuinely listened to) or they back down. Either way is an improvement.

    BTW, standing up to bullies works best even when you're not bigger and stronger to them. The bully hopes that by being nasty they'll get their way cheaply; standing up to them breaks that hope totally. But bigger/stronger helps; 'tis the way of the world.

  • (cs)

    I think the captcha is broken, perhaps Ralph thought it was too complicated and assigned captcha values from A through to N...

  • Tris (unregistered) in reply to grammernarzee

    How is responding to a direct threat 'bullying'? Not everyone can be reasoned with, and sometimes you have to pull people up for aggressive behavior (or knock them out).

  • Tris (unregistered) in reply to grammernarzee
    grammernarzee:
    Just Some Guy:
    I worked with Ralph's brother once. There are certain advantages to being 6 feet tall and un-scrawny (real-life question presented to me: "are you a football player?"):

    Ralph's brother: Do it this (stupid, illogical) way or else. Me, standing up: Or else what, little man? Ralph's brother: [remembers that he's urgently needed somewhere]

    That wasn't our first go-round and I decided I'd had enough.

    Right. So you do business by bullying, do you? Ok I'm sure Ralph's brother was a twat. Fine. But "proving" you're right just by being taller/fatter than him is pretty sad. Perhaps this extends to your home life? Do you "convince" your wife and kids of your wisdom by giving them a good kicking?

    How is responding to a direct threat 'bullying'? Not everyone can be reasoned with, and sometimes you have to pull people up for aggressive behavior (or knock them out).

  • Contractor.. (unregistered) in reply to Me
    Me:
    Dirk Diggler:
    If left unchecked every LAN tech, DBA, or System Administrator eventually turns into a martinet.

    True, but only because we have to continually deal with schmucks like you who "can manage their own computer" until a problem occurs and is made worse due to your inability or unwillingness to read log files, proactively deal with problems, patch, backup, etc, and then you just dump the problem off on us. As a bonus, we get to deal with your whining about how important your work and data is.

    Wow. Did Ralph post this response?

  • (cs) in reply to OhDear
    Captcha SINO: a government transport employee hooked on putting up redundant or meaningless road signs. The transport department is filled with sinos. 
       /\____________________
  /.....___________|\....|
 /.....|             \...|
<......|  ONE WAY     >..|
 \ ....|___________  /...|
  \ ...............|/....|
   \  ___________________|
    \/

    Note: Damn auto doublespacing.

  • George Johnson (unregistered)

    This is what happens when IT people have too much time and too much influence within the company. There's a reason us IT people are looked down upon, it's to leave this sort of thing to the HR and Facilties depts. What can you say apart from "Get a flipping life loser!".

  • (cs) in reply to Xenobiologista
    Can we please stop using Asperger's Syndrome as an excuse for being a jerk? I understand that some people have a hard time reading other people and figuring out what's the correct response in social situations. It may not come intuitively, but this stuff *is* learnable to some extent.
    You're preaching to the choir here, mate; I've got Asperger's, official diagnosis and all. Still, mental illness is not a lifestyle choice.
  • (cs) in reply to Charles400

    I've seen a lot of code that would make me ralph!

  • (cs) in reply to Charles400
    Charles400:
    Tormenting people like Ralph is good office sport. He will be missed.
    Not after we get the scope sighted in.
  • (cs) in reply to Charles400
    Frank Illium:
    I would be annoyed by somebody moving my icons and would move them back anyway.
    Consider using an arrangement that the system can redo for you, like "Arrange By -> Name". It helps if you use almost no desktop icons in the first place, as some people have said they do. (Me too.)
  • (cs) in reply to Charles400
    convicted felon:
    If you aren't willing to serve your customers, you shouldn't be in the industry.
    There's a difference between serving your customers, and servicing your customers. Ask any rancher.
  • (cs) in reply to Charles400
    grammernarzee:
    Just Some Guy:
    Ralph's brother: Do it this (stupid, illogical) way or else. Me, standing up: Or else what, little man? Ralph's brother: [remembers that he's urgently needed somewhere]

    That wasn't our first go-round and I decided I'd had enough.

    Right. So you do business by bullying, do you?
    Looks to me like it's not bullying, but standing up to bullying, after multiple instances. JSG was perfectly justified, IMNSHO.

  • foo (unregistered) in reply to JD
    JD:
    If anyone on my team reduced a co-worker to tears they would need an exceptionally good reason to escape disciplinary action - or worse.

    So if I think a co-worker might be promoted over me, I can just cry to get rid of them?

    Seriously, in this day and age there's so many different types, nationalities, cultures of people working in the same office that the chance of someone causing accidental offence to someone else is very high.

  • Random832 (unregistered) in reply to Mark
    Mark:
    cod3_complete:
    Mark:
    convicted felon:
    Mark:
    convicted felon:
    IT is a service industry. If you aren't willing to serve your customers, you shouldn't be in the industry.

    "Desktop support is a service industry. If you aren't willing to serve your customers, you shouldn't be in the industry."

    There. Fixed it for you.

    No need to correct me. I was right the first time. Regardless of the company, its internal IT department is in the business of serving the company's goals.

    Maintaining servers is as much of a service as maintaining desktops. It is not an end in itself.

    You're right about the service part. I was taking it to mean service in the low-level, face to face sense.

    But then, that's why it's good to be a Business Analyst. You're in IT, but you contribute directly to the revenue earning divisions of the company (Sales, Marketing, etc.).

    The rest of IT is just a cost center. And sadly, that's how senior leadership vies it in many companies.

    I don't agree with your statement that everyone besides the business analyst is a cost center. If software development is done correctly it SAVES TIME,CUTS COSTS AND IMPROVES EFFICIENCY. So GOOD programmers are actually a profit center. Think about it...

    Not so much. We've all pushed the notion that good developers save the company money. But they still don't generate revenue in the narrowest, oldest accepted sense of the term. Sales brings in money. Developers don't. They do a HELL of a lot to keep things running and to keep the customers happy, etc. But they don't bring in revenue in the strict sense of the term.

    Distinctions exist for a reason. You can't just say that everyone in the company contributes, therefore earns the company money. That may be true in an extremely generic kumba-ya kind of way. But that's not how 3C's make their distinctions. Learning to work within their framework will ensure you get to where you want to be in a company.

    I hate it as much as the next guy to think that IT is considered a "cost center", but it is. IT doesn't generate leads nor does it close sales. Sales does that. IT does lots of other things, but it doesn't earn revenue. That's not to say a more balanced view by 3C's wouldn't be helpful though. Yes, IT is a cost center, but that doesn't mean they need to continue to see it as a necessary evil. The companies that view IT that way are at a strategic disadvantage.

    That makes as much sense as saying that sales doesn't make money because they don't process payments.

  • Mark (unregistered) in reply to Mr B
    Mr B:
    I think the captcha is broken, perhaps Ralph thought it was too complicated and assigned captcha values from A through to N...

    The captcha is working fine. Now if you don't mind, I'm going to go buy me some WoW gold...

  • Mark (unregistered) in reply to Random832
    Random832:
    That makes as much sense as saying that sales doesn't make money because they don't process payments.

    Sales convinces customers to give the company money. Everything else is just implementation and logistics.

  • cod3_complete (unregistered) in reply to Mark
    Mark:
    cod3_complete:
    Mark:
    convicted felon:
    Mark:
    convicted felon:
    IT is a service industry. If you aren't willing to serve your customers, you shouldn't be in the industry.

    "Desktop support is a service industry. If you aren't willing to serve your customers, you shouldn't be in the industry."

    There. Fixed it for you.

    No need to correct me. I was right the first time. Regardless of the company, its internal IT department is in the business of serving the company's goals.

    Maintaining servers is as much of a service as maintaining desktops. It is not an end in itself.

    You're right about the service part. I was taking it to mean service in the low-level, face to face sense.

    But then, that's why it's good to be a Business Analyst. You're in IT, but you contribute directly to the revenue earning divisions of the company (Sales, Marketing, etc.).

    The rest of IT is just a cost center. And sadly, that's how senior leadership vies it in many companies.

    I don't agree with your statement that everyone besides the business analyst is a cost center. If software development is done correctly it SAVES TIME,CUTS COSTS AND IMPROVES EFFICIENCY. So GOOD programmers are actually a profit center. Think about it...

    Not so much. We've all pushed the notion that good developers save the company money. But they still don't generate revenue in the narrowest, oldest accepted sense of the term. Sales brings in money. Developers don't. They do a HELL of a lot to keep things running and to keep the customers happy, etc. But they don't bring in revenue in the strict sense of the term.

    Distinctions exist for a reason. You can't just say that everyone in the company contributes, therefore earns the company money. That may be true in an extremely generic kumba-ya kind of way. But that's not how 3C's make their distinctions. Learning to work within their framework will ensure you get to where you want to be in a company.

    I hate it as much as the next guy to think that IT is considered a "cost center", but it is. IT doesn't generate leads nor does it close sales. Sales does that. IT does lots of other things, but it doesn't earn revenue. That's not to say a more balanced view by 3C's wouldn't be helpful though. Yes, IT is a cost center, but that doesn't mean they need to continue to see it as a necessary evil. The companies that view IT that way are at a strategic disadvantage.

    Mark I think that we both agree that this mindset is unfortunate but I believe that you've been brainwashed into thinking that IT is a cost center. From basic 5th grade math we were taught that Profit = Revenue - Cost So from your own words and mine about how good programmers can decrease a companies operational costs then from the equation we can conclude that a smaller cost leads to increased profit. So yes good programmers are a profit center; this is a fact not a opinion.

  • cch (unregistered) in reply to cod3_complete
    cod3_complete:
    Mark:
    cod3_complete:
    Mark:
    convicted felon:
    Mark:
    convicted felon:
    IT is a service industry. If you aren't willing to serve your customers, you shouldn't be in the industry.

    "Desktop support is a service industry. If you aren't willing to serve your customers, you shouldn't be in the industry."

    There. Fixed it for you.

    No need to correct me. I was right the first time. Regardless of the company, its internal IT department is in the business of serving the company's goals.

    Maintaining servers is as much of a service as maintaining desktops. It is not an end in itself.

    You're right about the service part. I was taking it to mean service in the low-level, face to face sense.

    But then, that's why it's good to be a Business Analyst. You're in IT, but you contribute directly to the revenue earning divisions of the company (Sales, Marketing, etc.).

    The rest of IT is just a cost center. And sadly, that's how senior leadership vies it in many companies.

    I don't agree with your statement that everyone besides the business analyst is a cost center. If software development is done correctly it SAVES TIME,CUTS COSTS AND IMPROVES EFFICIENCY. So GOOD programmers are actually a profit center. Think about it...

    Not so much. We've all pushed the notion that good developers save the company money. But they still don't generate revenue in the narrowest, oldest accepted sense of the term. Sales brings in money. Developers don't. They do a HELL of a lot to keep things running and to keep the customers happy, etc. But they don't bring in revenue in the strict sense of the term.

    Distinctions exist for a reason. You can't just say that everyone in the company contributes, therefore earns the company money. That may be true in an extremely generic kumba-ya kind of way. But that's not how 3C's make their distinctions. Learning to work within their framework will ensure you get to where you want to be in a company.

    I hate it as much as the next guy to think that IT is considered a "cost center", but it is. IT doesn't generate leads nor does it close sales. Sales does that. IT does lots of other things, but it doesn't earn revenue. That's not to say a more balanced view by 3C's wouldn't be helpful though. Yes, IT is a cost center, but that doesn't mean they need to continue to see it as a necessary evil. The companies that view IT that way are at a strategic disadvantage.

    Mark I think that we both agree that this mindset is unfortunate but I believe that you've been brainwashed into thinking that IT is a cost center. From basic 5th grade math we were taught that Profit = Revenue - Cost So from your own words and mine about how good programmers can decrease a companies operational costs then from the equation we can conclude that a smaller cost leads to increased profit. So yes good programmers are a profit center; this is a fact not a opinion.

    Yes in that case profit increases from a larger negative to a smaller negative. I'm no accountant, oh wait yes I am, but smaller losses aren't the same as profits

  • Nicolas Verhaeghe (unregistered)

    If he has time to waste doing this, then he should be let go.

    Anal IT guys are not necessarily a bad thing. They will often have all the assets well numbered and accounted for.

    But when the staff fears the IT guy, there is a problem!

  • Mark (unregistered) in reply to cod3_complete
    cod3_complete:
    Mark I think that we both agree that this mindset is unfortunate but I believe that you've been brainwashed into thinking that IT is a cost center. From basic 5th grade math we were taught that Profit = Revenue - Cost So from your own words and mine about how good programmers can decrease a companies operational costs then from the equation we can conclude that a smaller cost leads to increased profit. So yes good programmers are a profit center; this is a fact not a opinion.

    Once again you're proving my point. You just said IT reduces operational costs. That's "Cost" in your equation, not "Revenue". So once again, Sales is in the "Revenue" part of the equation, and IT is in the "Cost" part of the equation. Sales increases revenue, IT reduces cost.

    And that is why IT is happy when they're allowed to wear costumes on Halloween. Meanwhile, Sales gets sent on retreats to Hawaii where strippers feed them sushi.

  • cod3_complete (unregistered) in reply to cch

    If you really are an accountant then why do you lack the capability to subtract? Oh well I'm glad you don't work for my company since you're so dense. The equation clearly shows that COSTS AND PROFITS ARE CONNECTED! GET A CLUE!!!!

  • Mark (unregistered) in reply to cod3_complete
    cod3_complete:
    If you really are an accountant then why do you lack the capability to subtract? Oh well I'm glad you don't work for my company since you're so dense. The equation clearly shows that COSTS AND PROFITS ARE CONNECTED! GET A CLUE!!!!

    Yes they're connected. Meanwhile you have yet to disprove my statement that Sales brings in revenue and IT is a cost center. In fact, you just proved my point.

  • cod3_complete (unregistered) in reply to Mark
    Mark:
    cod3_complete:
    If you really are an accountant then why do you lack the capability to subtract? Oh well I'm glad you don't work for my company since you're so dense. The equation clearly shows that COSTS AND PROFITS ARE CONNECTED! GET A CLUE!!!!

    Yes they're connected. Meanwhile you have yet to disprove my statement that Sales brings in revenue and IT is a cost center. In fact, you just proved my point.

    You've have yet to disprove my statement that decreased cost leads to increased profit.And that therefore good programmers are a profit center. Yes I have disproven your statement but you are too biased to listen.

  • Dirk Diggler (unregistered) in reply to cod3_complete
    cod3_complete:
    Mark:
    cod3_complete:
    If you really are an accountant then why do you lack the capability to subtract? Oh well I'm glad you don't work for my company since you're so dense. The equation clearly shows that COSTS AND PROFITS ARE CONNECTED! GET A CLUE!!!!

    Yes they're connected. Meanwhile you have yet to disprove my statement that Sales brings in revenue and IT is a cost center. In fact, you just proved my point.

    You've have yet to disprove my statement that decreased cost leads to increased profit.And that therefore good programmers are a profit center. Yes I have disproven your statement but you are too biased to listen.
    Ok, IT is so great it reduces costs to zero. However, for some reason sales/revenue also drops to zero. What is the profit? IT affect profit because it is on the cost side of the equation, not the sales/revenue side. These are accounting definitions, their rules, it doesn't matter what you think.

  • cod3_complete (unregistered) in reply to Dirk Diggler
    Ok, IT is so great it reduces costs to zero. However, for some reason sales/revenue also drops to zero. What is the profit? IT affect profit because it is on the cost side of the equation, not the sales/revenue side. These are accounting definitions, their rules, it doesn't matter what you think.

    Not only does IT cut costs but they can also create software products that can GENERATE REVENUE! So to claim that IT is only a "cost center" is short sighted at best.

  • Mark (unregistered) in reply to Dirk Diggler
    Dirk Diggler:
    cod3_complete:
    Mark:
    cod3_complete:
    If you really are an accountant then why do you lack the capability to subtract? Oh well I'm glad you don't work for my company since you're so dense. The equation clearly shows that COSTS AND PROFITS ARE CONNECTED! GET A CLUE!!!!

    Yes they're connected. Meanwhile you have yet to disprove my statement that Sales brings in revenue and IT is a cost center. In fact, you just proved my point.

    You've have yet to disprove my statement that decreased cost leads to increased profit.And that therefore good programmers are a profit center. Yes I have disproven your statement but you are too biased to listen.
    Ok, IT is so great it reduces costs to zero. However, for some reason sales/revenue also drops to zero. What is the profit? IT affect profit because it is on the cost side of the equation, not the sales/revenue side. These are accounting definitions, their rules, it doesn't matter what you think.

    Dirk, we're busy trying to derail this comment thread. Slashdot style. Please don't interrupt......

  • Dirk Diggler (unregistered) in reply to cod3_complete
    cod3_complete:
    Ok, IT is so great it reduces costs to zero. However, for some reason sales/revenue also drops to zero. What is the profit? IT affect profit because it is on the cost side of the equation, not the sales/revenue side. These are accounting definitions, their rules, it doesn't matter what you think.

    Not only does IT cut costs but they can also create software products that can GENERATE REVENUE! So to claim that IT is only a "cost center" is short sighted at best.

    I thought we were talking about internal IT departments.

  • cod3_complete (unregistered) in reply to Dirk Diggler
    Dirk Diggler:
    cod3_complete:
    Ok, IT is so great it reduces costs to zero. However, for some reason sales/revenue also drops to zero. What is the profit? IT affect profit because it is on the cost side of the equation, not the sales/revenue side. These are accounting definitions, their rules, it doesn't matter what you think.

    Not only does IT cut costs but they can also create software products that can GENERATE REVENUE! So to claim that IT is only a "cost center" is short sighted at best.

    I thought we were talking about internal IT departments.

    Yes Dirk I must inform you that internal IT departments can create software products as well to generate revenue.

  • OhDear (unregistered) in reply to wee

    Throat is good but my dream was to thumb our Ralph right in the eye with some insane hotsause on my thumb.

    Just think, he would be on the ground writhing in so much pain and at worst my thumb would be a bit wet.

    Captcha "laoreet" a tool for lancing boils.

  • Dirk Diggler (unregistered) in reply to cod3_complete
    cod3_complete:
    Dirk Diggler:
    cod3_complete:
    Ok, IT is so great it reduces costs to zero. However, for some reason sales/revenue also drops to zero. What is the profit? IT affect profit because it is on the cost side of the equation, not the sales/revenue side. These are accounting definitions, their rules, it doesn't matter what you think.

    Not only does IT cut costs but they can also create software products that can GENERATE REVENUE! So to claim that IT is only a "cost center" is short sighted at best.

    I thought we were talking about internal IT departments.

    Yes Dirk I must inform you that internal IT departments can create software products as well to generate revenue.

    The ones I was talking about don't.
  • cod3_complete (unregistered) in reply to Dirk Diggler
    Dirk Diggler:
    cod3_complete:
    Dirk Diggler:
    cod3_complete:
    Ok, IT is so great it reduces costs to zero. However, for some reason sales/revenue also drops to zero. What is the profit? IT affect profit because it is on the cost side of the equation, not the sales/revenue side. These are accounting definitions, their rules, it doesn't matter what you think.

    Not only does IT cut costs but they can also create software products that can GENERATE REVENUE! So to claim that IT is only a "cost center" is short sighted at best.

    I thought we were talking about internal IT departments.

    Yes Dirk I must inform you that internal IT departments can create software products as well to generate revenue.

    The ones I was talking about don't.

    Dirk the 'ones' you mention have CTO or CIO executives who fail to leverage their IT assets correctly. Quite simply its a failure of leadership. Any business can be costly or profitable its a matter of how's its managed. Also I have proven how IT can contribute positively by cutting costs and generating revenue so just take it as a lesson.

  • Page (unregistered) in reply to Matt.C
    Matt.C:
    Haha! That'll learn him.

    Though... now with nobody keeping such a close eye on the printer situation, aren't we letting ourselves in for potential problems later on? After all, without Ralph, we lack an approved method for determining what cartridges are to be used with what printer and the consequences of this could be costly! I mean, you wouldn't want to run out of

    You just made my day.

  • Dirk Diggler (unregistered) in reply to cod3_complete
    cod3_complete:
    Dirk Diggler:
    cod3_complete:
    Dirk Diggler:
    cod3_complete:
    Ok, IT is so great it reduces costs to zero. However, for some reason sales/revenue also drops to zero. What is the profit? IT affect profit because it is on the cost side of the equation, not the sales/revenue side. These are accounting definitions, their rules, it doesn't matter what you think.

    Not only does IT cut costs but they can also create software products that can GENERATE REVENUE! So to claim that IT is only a "cost center" is short sighted at best.

    I thought we were talking about internal IT departments.

    Yes Dirk I must inform you that internal IT departments can create software products as well to generate revenue.

    The ones I was talking about don't.

    Dirk the 'ones' you mention have CTO or CIO executives who fail to leverage their IT assets correctly. Quite simply its a failure of leadership. Any business can be costly or profitable its a matter of how's its managed. Also I have proven how IT can contribute positively by cutting costs and generating revenue so just take it as a lesson.

    I think the sands are shifting, you need to speak to a cost accountant. You're definition of proof is to change definitions.

  • IT Girl (unregistered)

    There's only one word for the Ralph's of the world:

    Backpfeifengesicht

  • (cs) in reply to Mark
    Mark:
    "it SAVES TIME,CUTS COSTS AND IMPROVES EFFICIENCY. "

    Think about what you just said. None of those things earn revenue. They reduce operational costs. That's not to knock those traits. But they aren't revenue earners. Spending money on a billboard and getting X new customers, that generates revenue. That's why Sales and Marketing always stays on during widespread layoffs. It sucks, but there's a reason for it. It's shortsighted, but nevertheless...

    By that logic, actually building a product is a cost center, but good luck selling stuff you can't build. The practice of describing business as consisting of sales and cost centers is pure idiocy - sales is necessary, requires hard work, but isn't that difficult: you just have to put in the hours. Solving a problem in a new way isn't something that you can just do, it's a bit different.

    Mark:
    Yes they're connected. Meanwhile you have yet to disprove my statement that Sales brings in revenue and IT is a cost center. In fact, you just proved my point.

    IT is a cost center, but all they do is support desktops and users. Depending on the business, production network infrastructure, servers, and software are totally separate, and improvements there don't cut costs, they increase capacity for the same cost; if you make the servers at Amazon 20% more efficient, you can serve 20% more traffic on the same hardware. Sales in the traditional sense has nothing to do with that traffic.

  • Its immaterial (unregistered) in reply to kc

    Sounds like fairly classic Aspergers. I would say.

  • 008 (unregistered)

    To be fair, I have Asperger's and don't give two shits about my desktop icons (as long as you don't break something...)

  • MeRp (unregistered) in reply to Mark

    [quote user="Mark"][quote user="cod3_complete"][quote user="Mark"] I don't agree with your statement that everyone besides the business analyst is a cost center. If software development is done correctly it SAVES TIME,CUTS COSTS AND IMPROVES EFFICIENCY. So GOOD programmers are actually a profit center. Think about it...[/quote]

    Not so much. We've all pushed the notion that good developers save the company money. But they still don't generate revenue in the narrowest, oldest accepted sense of the term. Sales brings in money. Developers don't. They do a HELL of a lot to keep things running and to keep the customers happy, etc. But they don't bring in revenue in the strict sense of the term.

    Distinctions exist for a reason. You can't just say that everyone in the company contributes, therefore earns the company money. That may be true in an extremely generic kumba-ya kind of way. But that's not how 3C's make their distinctions. Learning to work within their framework will ensure you get to where you want to be in a company.

    I hate it as much as the next guy to think that IT is considered a "cost center", but it is. IT doesn't generate leads nor does it close sales. Sales does that. IT does lots of other things, but it doesn't earn revenue. That's not to say a more balanced view by 3C's wouldn't be helpful though. Yes, IT is a cost center, but that doesn't mean they need to continue to see it as a necessary evil. The companies that view IT that way are at a strategic disadvantage. [/quote]

    By this logic no one in a company except sales and marketing makes money. In other words, a factory is a cost center.

    I could buy this argument if the term cost center did not have negative connotations. I think the real problem with this philosophy, though, is that it does not accurately reflect what makes money (ie the product, service or information you are selling) as opposed to who handles the money - sales, marketing, and the bean counters.

    It somehow puts forth the idea that handling the money is somehow more profitable to the company than actually generating it. Without something to sell, either a product, service, or information or some combination of the three, very few companies can be successful for more than a few years (maybe a decade, like the 1990's, if circumstances are right).

  • Jason bean (unregistered)

    No doubt about it, Ralph was indeed the stuff of Legends! Ralph ROCKED

    Jiff www.online-anonymity.kr.tc

  • Sane Person (unregistered) in reply to James Stanley

    You're welcome. Now if you'll all just buy my book -- "A Sane Approach to Database Design" -- I'll be able to afford to run more ads with pictures of Irish girls.

  • Sane Person (unregistered) in reply to James Stanley
    James Stanley:
    New Irish girl advert. Excellent. If only all sites did advertising this way...

    Whoops. My previous post was supposed to be a reply to this one.

  • acid (unregistered)

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not pro-asylums or anything, but I do think that the real WTF in this story is that there are people out there who are high-functioning mentally and emotionally imbalanced people who need genuine help, NOT jobs in IT support.

    Ralph may not have always been this way, he may have changed because of chemical imbalances etc. I also know it's not the role of management to solve his problems, he must choose to do that himself. We've all come across our own Ralphs, how many of us have taken them aside and tried explaining in a semi-formal context that their behaviour is - well, off?

    Personally I'm of the view that High Functioning Mental / Emotional Imbalance should be accepted as formal grounds for 'letting go' of someone if they refuse to seek the appropriate help. It would make things simpler in the unfair dismissal process (because we all KNOW Ralph is going to appeal) AND it would be fairer on future interviewers of Ralph if they were allowed to know the truth. They could then ask him straight what help (if any) he's been getting so that they can make the most informed decision on hiring him themselves.

    Other than that, the only thing I can say is that this is a person who needed to be supervised far better than he really was. Who the hell has time to rewrite a cartridge numbering system in their normal careers?

    Regards, Acid.

  • Unicorn (unregistered)

    "I'm betting Ralph is suffering from a combination of Asperger's Syndrome and massive sexual frustration."

    Sounds more like an OCD, in my opinion, maybe combined with Asperger, but I'm not sure.

  • lern2read (unregistered) in reply to Mark
    Mark:
    cod3_complete:
    If you really are an accountant then why do you lack the capability to subtract? Oh well I'm glad you don't work for my company since you're so dense. The equation clearly shows that COSTS AND PROFITS ARE CONNECTED! GET A CLUE!!!!

    Yes they're connected. Meanwhile you have yet to disprove my statement that Sales brings in revenue and IT is a cost center. In fact, you just proved my point.

    Well, let' see. I wonder why we have to record all the hours we work even though we are exempt and it doesn't affect our paycheck? Oh yeah, because our customers get billed for every hour we work, at a rate higher than we are paid.

    Using your advanced mathmatical accounting techniques, does this difference between the rate charged customers and the rate we are paid in any way relate to the company's profit?

    I eagerly await your accounting wisdom.

  • Just Some Guy (unregistered) in reply to grammernarzee
    grammernarzee:
    Right. So you do business by bullying, do you? Ok I'm sure Ralph's brother was a twat. Fine. But "proving" you're right just by being taller/fatter than him is pretty sad. Perhaps this extends to your home life? Do you "convince" your wife and kids of your wisdom by giving them a good kicking?

    I'm actually a really laid-back guy. You'll find me smiling and happy with the world 90% of the time. Still, there are time when you have to draw a line in the sand and say "that's it, no more; I won't accept this any longer."

  • Kurgan (unregistered) in reply to shinobu
    shinobu:
    first?:
    First???

    Mac Gyver most likely dies in 2030 Luke Skywalker in 2031 Knight Rider in 2032 Mr. T in 2032

    Uhm... someone has read XKCD recently, I suppose.

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