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Admin
Ever known anyone who put on a pant? Just one, not a pair?
Admin
Depends on how you say it. If you say "I have point two five gallons of milk" then you say it that way because it's not equal to one. On the other hand, most people are more apt to say "I have a quarter of a gallon of milk". Note the lack of pluralization because you are saying you have a portion of a single. Instead, you should note how "0" is plural, too. "I have zero gallons of milk." In English, anything that does not equal one is plural. In some other languages, anything greater than 1 is plural (both 0 and 1 are singular). Of course, there are languages without plural altogether. But in English, singular means "equal to 1" while plural means "not equal to 1".
Admin
Assuming that the next logical grouping is hundreds of thousands, wouldn't that make the upper bound 100,000 or 199,999 depending on whose lower bound you used?
Admin
That's weird. I'm currently recovering from beppobone surgery. Should I be worried?
Admin
Ermm.... well, 10 is a 'plural' number last I checked. So really, 10 x 10000 is "tens of thousands." It's ten of them.
So everyone's wrong. Let's move on.
Admin
And Access
Admin
Or, to quote DOS, "1 files copied."
Admin
Can't agree with you. When you say 1.0 you are saying you have a measurement equal to 1.0 with two significant digits. The actual value might be 1.01 or .999. When you say 1 you mean the first natural number. These are not the same at all.
And none of this would have happened if you hadn't used a SMALLINT inappropriately.
Admin
OK looking at the photo attached to this posting, i just have one question. WTF does this all have to do with Dougie Howser?
Admin
Admin
Actually, if you use a REAL back-end server AND don't ever use "bound" controls for anything editable Access can be used to make some nice client software.
The key is you can't be lazy about it. Write routines to populate the form (leave your recordset open if you're in need of locking), then at "save" time check every control for proper data and finally bang it back into the db by either updating the recordset or generating SQL dynamically in VB code.
In some ways, Access is actually what VB should be. Continuous forms and the reporting are awesome. Bound forms and controls, and the Jet engine are disasters waiting to bite you.
Admin
I butted my head against this repeatedly in my first job at a CD wholesaler. Very much the noob (18, only person doing IT in the company, only person with any vague skills for that matter) and not knowing better the only interface I had for accessing our sales / stock / accounts system was an ODBC link to the database running on a *nix server. Can't remember what the underlying database was running, but it wasn't SQL. Part of my job entailed producing report generators in Access that queried the data on the system for whichever department needed the reports. Sadly the ODBC interface was a slow as hell. If I tried to pull reports during the day everyone on the tele-sales team complained because it started making the system drag for them. Ignoring how atrociously inefficient my VBA programming was, even SQL queries generated in access would take ridiculous times to run. In the end I setup a scheduled task on a central server to automatically open up an access database and grab a complete set of the data overnight. That worked fine until about August when the amount of information I was pulling reached over 1 gig. What could I do? Only thing I could think of at the time was have two databases for pulling the data, splitting it between the two and setting up Link tables between them. It worked, but my God was it ugly. Hindsight would probably have me setting up some kind of mysql server or postgres or something and duping the data into there where I didn't have to worry about size, and also would gain the benefit of a proper engine driving the db.
Of course at the time I couldn't even write SQL queries properly. I'd been taught to use VBA at school and did a lot of stuff manually and inefficiently through VBA code that would take 20mins to produce what a SQL query would probably have produced in seconds. My report generators were horrific, truly deserving of a WTF in and of themselves :D
CAPTCHA: Burned... rather appropriate.
Admin
Well, this is a mighty common WTF. I work at a company where various testing logs grow in abundance. Thus comes in a new testing system and logs its data guess where? Access. Roll on time a few months. Now we have an access base, locked by the writing process 99% of the time and already bloated to 2G on disk. Access bases at that size are near unapproachable...
Addendum (2007-07-17 03:20): It has another side effect.At one point we discovered that our data exchange share was bulk full. when investigated, it contained all together around 6 copies of this base and included different stats generation tools in each. To make stats off that table it has to be copied out because stressing the test equipment with db load can influence results. Due to the base being locked the data in copy is never fresh and the reports never get written back to the base db.
Admin
Admin
Haha, "So say we all"! Indeed...
(captcha: ninjas........)
Admin
My two cents as an ex-POS developer.
You have to have a client side database. Having every till in the store close because of a problem with the back-end pc or the network will give you one very angry retailer.
The database cannot be SQL. Access isn't a very good choice either. It has to survive the till being powered down suddenly and unexpectedly, and it has to come back on again without any hassle. My last company used a little known database called Pervasive. It was rubbish, but very robust.
Overwriting your End Of Day file is a massive no-no (see angry retailer). The system made three copies, a local-timestamped copy, a network timestamped copy, and one for import into the back-end ERP system.
Admin
Your boundariess need work. Are you saying that one should refer 130,000 as hundreds of thousands, while 13,000 would still be thousands? Or are the numbers from 10,000 to 19,999 and from 100,000 to 199,999 just something one never needs to use? Or is "tens of thousands" just some kind of a special case between "thousands" and "hundreds of thousands"?
I still like to refer 1,300 as hundreds. Heck, I would probably refer 2,100 as hundreds as well, starting thousands when the number starts to get closer to 3,000. Nothing more disappointing than hearing you'd get "thousands" of something and then learn that the plural was there just for two.
Admin
Our company had a successful, widely deployed, application that uses Access for the UI and SQL Server 2005 as a backend.
Admin
And since Aero is polishing, that proves Vista isn't a turd.
Admin
I agree with some of most recent posters, there is nothing wrong with Access as a tool for rapid application development in a corporate environment.
It's actually a perfectly good tool for developing Windows software that connects to a centralized database (that might also be the same backend for a web based interface, as was the case on project I worked on about 10 years ago now), those who seem to think it's not suitable for scalable multi-user apps just don't know what they are talking about (and, I suspect, are just blindly ranting at it because it's from Microsoft and/or because they assume it only works with local databases/database files on a file share).
Although these days it's hard to justify not developing a decent web based interface as the primary interface to an enterprise application, if you are actually going to bother to leverage Microsoft's design and API's (such as integration with things like Outlook and Exchange which you can do in all sorts of weird and wacky ways) you could easily make a case for it, especially in a standardized corporate environment where you know that everyone is going to be running Windows.
I don't use Windows (with the sole exception of for gaming), personally I think their OS's are a very poor effort for such a large and well funded company, but Microsoft have developed a lot of software to make rapid application development and system integration really easy (even if, in practice, it's rarely used to anything like it's fullest extent).
Admin
I have an artist friend, and one of her projects was to go round the streets and put cake decorations on dog poo. So mebe Aero is more like frosting?
Admin
That is like putting a carpet over a huge dungheap. ;)
Admin
The sad part is, managers don' see what's wrong with all the items in the summary at the end of the article :-)
Admin
I think you've found the condition Access suffers from known as "database bloat." Compact + Repair to the rescue!
Admin
Admin
Admin
If you need more than 32,768 [nevermind that presumably smallints are 16 bits, not 15, and there's no reason as far as I know why there can't be a negative value, so in fact 65,536 possible values], you probably need more than 99,999. Having it only take three times [1.5 times] as long to be exhausted is probably not going to help you all that much.
Admin
Another one:
"You put lipstick on a pig, it's still a pig"
(so from that you can make variations,e.g. "Doing that will just be putting lipstick on a pig..." etc. )
Admin
968,796,749,867,946,797,948,679,464,987,649 is also inside the range "tens of thousands" of something.
Admin
Admin
Another point about the phrase: "You can't polish a turd" - technically, you can. It takes lots of liquid nitrogen and Shinola. As you might imagine, it takes a long time and gets expensive. And after you are done, you have a shiny turd. Still not happy? Maybe it's time to upgrade to the next version.
Kind of explains why consulting firms like Microsoft products so much, doesn't it?
Admin
Completley off-topic, but that girl in the picture is cute.
captcha: gotcha
Admin
UK English != US English.
Admin
*We have to enter time into three separate timekeeping systems, one for payroll, one for accounting, and this latest for IT management. When I was new here, I was suspicious that my new colleagues were pulling my leg. But almost everything is done at least doubly redundantly around here.
Admin
I guess all of the above would be better than Access ;-)
Admin
*If the term "blacks" is found to be offensive, please feel free to substitute a word of your choosing with the identical meaning, but without offense.
Admin
Access has a lovely ability to use "link" tables, linked to a table in a different file. Create your own Access DB with links to the three other DBs, work out what it is actually occurs in your triplicated transactions and just cause them to happen at the touch of a single button. Your fellow IT people will probably love you if you add in a drop down box so they can select their own name ;)
Admin
and...
1 fish, 2 fish 1 sheep, 2 sheep
I've no idea why I posted this... maybe ponderous pedantism is catching :-)
Admin
I just wanted to point out that if you wanted to be EXTREMELY picky, one could argue that 'tens of thousands' could be 10,0001 to infinity. Sure, you should really use different units, but 100,000 is 10 10ks. ;-)
(Yes, I got the original joke.)
WHY ARE YOU PEOPLE OBSESSED WITH POSTING YOUR CAPTCHA TESTS???!? p.s. "darwin"
Admin
Absolute rubbish. I have a system with 25 users entering data all day long. 160 tables with 400K and 600K records in at least four tables in the backend MDB. Yes, it should be upsized to SQL Server.
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Admin
Access works very well with controls and forms bound to queries/views/whatever against SQL Serer, etc. Of course you'd never want to base any kind of form directly against a table.
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Admin
Admin
Some people think they can actually write software after they've watched a lot of medical dramas?
Admin
Why? Ms-access is just another development tool. You can choose c++, vb, or ms-access to interface to sql server. Perhaps you new to computers, but it seems like you can’t even understand the difference between an access application, and that of a database. Ms-access is not a database, it is a development tool. I think perhaps you talking about a JET database here. When you use ms-access, or vb (or a php web site), you still can choose your database engine. You don’t have to use JET as the database engine here, you can use your sql farm. There are ms-access applications with 1000 simultaneous users that run just fine. You just have to make sure you have a decent database server (but, that server has little, or nothing to do with vb, ms-access, or your php web site). I really amazed that you lack basic computer understanding here!
The database you use with ms-access might be Oralcle, ms-sql server, or JET. If you use sql-server, then why would the sql run slower when using ms-access, or c++, or a web site and php? (or, for that matter hand coded assembler!).
Somehow you think that the sql server or oracle actually knows that ms-access is on the other end and then decides to run slow?. Golly, come on! If you going to be smug and criticize things here, as least show that you have better ability then the “Sharon” person. Really, your lack of understanding is actually WORSE then Sharon because you critiquing under the guise of smugness, and being a know it all (yet, you don’t even understand the basic difference between an development tool like ms-access, and that of the database you use with that tool.).
You should try and keep in mind the difference between a development tool like ms-access, and the database engine you decide to use with that devepument tool.
So, sure..be critical, but use caution, else we have to bring up the story about calling the kettle black, and someone who lacks a basic understanding of VB, c++, ms-access and that of Oracle, sql server, or JET.
It begs the question who needs some education here.
Albert D. Kallal Edmonton, Alberta Canada [email protected]
Admin
WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!
Wow, are some people living in darkness here or what? You being worse then that Sharon person!
Ms-access is NOT a database. Ms-access is development tool like VB, or c++. In fact it shares the same syntax (and compiler) as vb6. The last 4 versions of ms-access has have allowed you to use a 100% oleDB native connection to sql server. There is not JET database involved when you do this. (and, 4 versions of ms-access means we back to the year 2000).
You could say that you not kept up with ms-access, but then why would you be commenting on the product you know nothing of then? Really, either your ignorant, or not kept up! Both of which make your attitude worse then that of “Sharon”.
If falling behind on new versions of products or not keeping up, then I don’t think you should comment then. And, if you have been keeping up on general technology, then you can’t understand the difference between a development tool like ms-access, and that of the JET database engine.
I mean, does sql lite provide a ability to write code and build a interface? How do you build a form or report with sql lite? (it insane to bring the two terms together in the same sentence).
I think your trying to refer to the JET database engine. You are free to use sql –server, or oracle, or MySql with ms-access.
Ms-access is just a development tool based on the VB6 compiler and p-code engine (it actually is the same compiler as vb6, but ms-access does not have a native compile option like VB6 does).
Shame on your for not even having a BASIC understanding of a database engine like JET, and that of ms-access. You don’t have to use JET with ms-access if you don’t want to.
Albert D. Kallal Edmonton, Alberta Canada [email protected]
Admin
If you have say 2 reports 2 forms 2 tables with a few hundred or even thousand of records and you want to knock up it up in a couple of minutes access is great. Access is really suited for that kind of rapid application developement.
If you want to develope a major application which would be the primary software used by your company well you would have to create an ADP which uses an SQL Server backend however I think you would find the access controls lacking and would go be better off developing an application.
Admin
[quote user="Access isn't bad if you use it for the right things."]If you have say 2 reports 2 forms 2 tables with a few hundred or even thousand of records and you want to knock up it up in a couple of minutes access is great. Access is really suited for that kind of rapid application developement.[/quote]
I strenuously disagree. Access works very well with 450 forms, 350 reports and 70,000 lines of VBA code against a backend of 160 tables.
If you want to develope a major application which would be the primary software used by your company well you would have to create an ADP which uses an SQL Server backend however I think you would find the access controls lacking and would go be better off developing an application.[/quote]
Why would you want to use an ADP? Access MDB/MDE using linked tables, views and stored procedures works very well against SQL Server. This is also the Microsoft recommended solution for hitting SQL Server. ADPs have their own set of quirks. They also weren't improved in any fashion in Access 2007.
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Admin
Reposted to get the attributions done better.
I strenuously disagree. Access works very well. I setup major app for a client with 450 forms, 350 reports and 70,000 lines of VBA code against a backend of 160 tables. It controlled everything in their rather large welding shop.
Why would you want to use an ADP? Access MDB/MDE using linked tables, views and stored procedures works very well against SQL Server. This is also the Microsoft recommended solution for hitting SQL Server. ADPs have their own set of quirks. They also weren't improved in any fashion in Access 2007.
Access controls lacking? I think not. Granted the continuous form could use some improvements but it works very well with next to no code required to build it. And no distribution problems.
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Admin
Hi Tony & Maz2331. I'm doing some work with Access, but I'm very inexperienced. I've never been given any formal training in Access, so I'm relying on general computer science knowledge. You've stated several things that "of course" you should or should not do (eg basing forms on tables), but they're new to me. Can you point me to a resource that explains these best practices for using Access, preferably with explanations of why the practices are good or bad? I'd greatly prefer to do things right, but it's unlikely to happen by voodoo magic and luck.
Thanks
Admin
Go Tony!!!
It's about time someone with even an inkling of what Access is capable of doing chimed in.
Too many out there who have built and/or unsuccessfully tried to fix a poorly made database blame the tool used instead of the tool who built the database.
You build a shoddy house with a hammer and nails it's not the hammer's fault..