• Bill C. (unregistered) in reply to da Doctah
    da Doctah:
    Steve The Cynic:
    ctw:
    Brevity is the soul of wit. Akismet, clearly, is soulless.
    And therefore Akismet is witless?
    No, just briefless. It prefers boxers.
    If you have a quality laptop, you don't want either briefs or boxers. Akismet can suck my predecessor, I'm occupied.
  • Gigaplex (unregistered) in reply to Ken B
    Ken B:
    Wody:
    Because of these kinds of issues, Windows 7 comes with a virtual Windows XP machine called XP Mode. So what's the problem?
    Have you ever actually looked at "XP mode"? First, it requires Windows 7 Professional or higher. (I'ts not supported on "home" or "home premium" editions.)
    Correct, but who uses those editions in a domain environment? Hint: None.
    Second, it requires a CPU that supports "hardware assisted virtualization".
    Partially true. That requirement was initially there, but they dropped the requirement in a later release due to the sheer number of Intel processors that arbitrarily had the feature disabled.
    Finally, it requires a minimum of 2GB RAM.

    Do you really think that his old XP box really has the ability to run XP Mode?

    As per the article, the laptop in question did in fact have 2GB RAM. It would have worked, but not particularly smoothly.

    And do you really think that he would get the authorization to install something like VirtualBox?
    Perhaps not.
  • R (unregistered) in reply to Quango
    Quango:
    Because of these kinds of issues, Windows 7 comes with a virtual Windows XP machine called XP Mode. So what's the problem?

    I had the same thought initially. But the issue would not be the version of Windows, it would the version of IE - Win7 has IE8 as the base, so I assume the ActiveX control was IE6/IE7.

    XP Mode would not work

    The XP Mode virtual machine image has the IE 8 critical update disabled, so it doesn't automatically upgrade from IE 6. XP Mode would work.

  • Anon (unregistered) in reply to Geoff
    Geoff:
    Having had several hats in IT at various times, I have seen this from a number of sides and I don't have a good answer.

    You have different groups with what often amount to competing agendas.

    Security wants everything patched; this may break some older LOB apps.

    Operations wants everything or a recent ideally uniform client; so the can patch, deploy, and tell helpdesk how to support.

    Engineering support does not want to upgrade anything ever; Their 'customers' want to keep their costs down and continue using their 25 year old lab equipment and control systems along with their DOS based software components into the next decade.

    Management wants Systems development to deploy BI tool version latest to all branch managers; helpdesk gets tired of walking them through installing Java 6u32 to use the tool and reinstalling u27 to access ($Customer|$Vendor)'s terrible website.

    helpdesk/support is okay with whatever as long as it still conforms to the script they created five years ago. They wrote it and proudly call themselves analysts now; If you change anything that results in them having to read or think they cry.

    Its not an easy problem for a largish organization to solve; at least not cheaply. You absolutely have to have a CIO with enough sense to see which way the wind is blowing. Usually the only answer for getting anything 'done' in IT is some group has to suck it up and find an alternative to whatever is getting broken. You have to have that one benevolent dictator to decide who, why, and when but hope to hell they don't monkey to much with the how.

    a) Security is paramount.

    b) Ops can do their job, or go fuck themselves.

    c) 'Engineering support' can do their job, or go fuck themselves.

    d) Management can go fuck themselves. Whether or not they do their job doesn't actually matter, since no one would notice if they simultaneously keeled over.

    e) Help-desk could likely make more money working at a fast-food joint; They're not paid enough to give a shit about their job. Which is a whole 'nother issue.

    (a) is the only one which brings your company out of regulatory compliance, risking billions in lawsuits and fines, and the loss of every contract you hold. Which would probably be an issue if your notebook is chained to your desk -at work-.

  • Someone (unregistered) in reply to Wody

    The problem then is his 2GB of ram.

  • Matt (unregistered)

    Nothing overly shocking here. In my private sector job I have various virtual machines for different tasks. I run Windows Server 2000 because one of our legacy applications just isn't compatible with anything higher, XP because some applications reach that as a compatibility limit, and a Windows Server 2008 VM for day-to-day admin tasks... all run from my Windows 7 main PC which is mainly used for IE.

    It is rather depressing at times having to spend so much time working with VMs instead of just fixing the issues with the legacy applications, especially as a POC I showed that they could be.

  • (cs) in reply to Wody

    Miguel's employers disabled that feature so they could fit the Win7 install on the hard drive.

  • Mike Dimmick (unregistered) in reply to urza9814
    urza9814:
    Ken B:
    Wody:
    Because of these kinds of issues, Windows 7 comes with a virtual Windows XP machine called XP Mode. So what's the problem?
    Have you ever actually looked at "XP mode"? First, it requires Windows 7 Professional or higher. (I'ts not supported on "home" or "home premium" editions.) Second, it requires a CPU that supports "hardware assisted virtualization". Finally, it requires a minimum of 2GB RAM.

    Do you really think that his old XP box really has the ability to run XP Mode?

    And do you really think that he would get the authorization to install something like VirtualBox?

    1. You think they installed the home edition on his work laptop? I highly doubt it.
    2. The article explicitly states he has 2GB of RAM.
    3. They explicitly told him to use virtualization, so clearly he can get authorization for it somehow.

    So of four objections, the only one that actually makes sense is that his CPU may not support it.

    Even the fourth doesn't (now) make sense. An update was released in March 2010 to allow Windows Virtual PC to run on systems without hardware virtualization: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/virtual_pc_guy/archive/2010/03/18/windows-virtual-pc-no-hardware-virtualization-update-now-available-for-download.aspx

  • Anonymous (unregistered) in reply to Ken B
    Ken B:
    MiffTheFox:
    "The laptop, his RAM was maxed out"
    I thought you were talking about English, not Tamarian.

    Q: Why aren't you doing your work? A: The laptop, in Winter.

    Q: What about that Windows 7 upgrade? A: Windows, when the wall fell.

    I see what you did there, and it is awesome.

  • Anonymous (unregistered) in reply to Anonymous
    Anonymous:
    I can't really respect any computer professional that relies on Microsoft products or graphical user interfaces.
    FTFM.
  • Mozzis (unregistered) in reply to Anon

    So "XP mode" consists of a kind of custom version of Virtual PC plus a copy of Windows XP whose license is tied to your Windows 7 license. It all works very well, if you have enough RAM and a fast enough hard drive to support it. I doubt that the machine of the poor schmo in the story would do a good job running XP in a VM, but it would be worth a try. If all that was needed was IE 7 + Active X support, try pressing F12 in IE9 to get the option to switch to that mode.

  • Paul Neumann (unregistered) in reply to Mozzis
    Mozzis:
    So "XP mode" consists of a kind of custom version of Virtual PC plus a copy of Windows XP whose license is tied to your Windows 7 license. It all works very well, if you have enough RAM and a fast enough hard drive to support it. I doubt that the machine of the poor schmo in the story would do a good job running XP in a VM, but it would be worth a try. If all that was needed was IE 7 + Active X support, try pressing F12 in IE9 to get the option to switch to that mode.
    Yeah, doesn't work. ActiveX requires features (read: security holes) which Win7 doesn't support.
  • Ken B (unregistered) in reply to urza9814
    urza9814:
    Ken B:
    Wody:
    Because of these kinds of issues, Windows 7 comes with a virtual Windows XP machine called XP Mode. So what's the problem?
    Have you ever actually looked at "XP mode"? First, it requires Windows 7 Professional or higher. (I'ts not supported on "home" or "home premium" editions.) Second, it requires a CPU that supports "hardware assisted virtualization". Finally, it requires a minimum of 2GB RAM.

    Do you really think that his old XP box really has the ability to run XP Mode?

    And do you really think that he would get the authorization to install something like VirtualBox?

    1. You think they installed the home edition on his work laptop? I highly doubt it.
    2. The article explicitly states he has 2GB of RAM.
    3. They explicitly told him to use virtualization, so clearly he can get authorization for it somehow.

    So of four objections, the only one that actually makes sense is that his CPU may not support it.

    (1) I have no idea which edition they installed. However, given that this was an ancient XP box, it may not support anything beyond Home. (Heck, it may not support anything beyond Starter.)

    (2) Have you ever tried running software on a machine that has only the minimum-required RAM?

    (3) Was this the same group that "upgraded" the system to Windows 7? Do they know the history of this ancient box? Perhaps that was the equivalent of the 4:55PM answer "have you tried turning it off and on again".

  • Dont Care to Admit (unregistered)

    Are there really $100/programmers? Shit.

  • Ken B (unregistered) in reply to Gigaplex
    Gigaplex:
    Ken B:
    Second, it requires a CPU that supports "hardware assisted virtualization".
    Partially true. That requirement was initially there, but they dropped the requirement in a later release due to the sheer number of Intel processors that arbitrarily had the feature disabled.
    So they have. Unfortunately, when you go to the XP Mode download page, it still lists that as a requirement. However, when you go to the link for the utility that verifies your computer can support XP Mode, is the note that if you get an error about hardware virtualization not being available, you can get patch for Windows 7 to allow you to run Virtual PC.
  • Tom (unregistered)

    This sounds familiar.

    I did some time at a very large financial company. My computer was ancient and struggled to use the required toolset. My manager approved a brand new one.

    It arrived on my desk a week later and the old one was gone. I logged in and had to install the tools. The first installer comes up and says that I have to have administrator access. Unlike my previous machine, I didn't have admin rights on this one. I called help desk and they said a new policy was in place which prevented them from giving me that access. I brought up that it was standard practice for developers to have admin access to their own machine. They said it didn't matter. New policies and all.

    However, they helpfully sent a person by to do all of my installs. 2 days later and I was ready to go.

    Open Visual Studio, open the project, hit run... and boom. You must be an administrator to use the debugging tools.

    I submitted a help desk ticket, same response. I spoke with my manager, who spoke with his, who took it 3 more levels up. Nothing could be done. The policy was set by the site administrator who reported to a completely different branch of the company and no one could override him.

    Days went by and I couldn't do anything but sit and wait. I dutifully showed up to work every day, put in my time and went home. Incidentally: I was a contractor and the rates were very good. Every day I asked my boss if the policy was changed or if there was anything I could do. Every day he said no and that he was trying to get this resolved.

    During this time I brought in my own laptop but wasn't allowed to connect it to the network. So I proceeded to work on software for a new idea I had.

    After 2 months it was time for my contract review. The day before they laid off about 20% of the full time staff so I fully expected to simply be walked out. But no. The contract was extended for 2 years. During that meeting I asked if they had resolved the issues so I could do something. They said they were working on it.

    For kicks, I accepted the extension. Time continued to fly by as I was still unable to work. Meanwhile various people were being layed off (this was during the mortgage crisis) but I kept my job. Apparently a contractor warming a chair is more important than a full time regular employee like a QA tester or DBA.

    Eventually my group was disbanded and I was moved to a new one. However, that damned computer followed me. I told the story to my new boss and he went on a quest to get this resolved. More time goes by.

    After a solid year of not being able to do anything I was given a rate bump. Apparently my managers had all said good things about me. I'm not entirely sure why or how as all I did was sit in a chair. Unbelievable. 3 months after that I finally left. The software I was working on with my laptop was published and I was starting to make enough sales to move on.

    I wonder, if I hadn't left on my own if I would still be there collecting a rather nice paycheck to warm a chair. Probably. They are still in business.

  • Xagyg (unregistered) in reply to Johnathan

    Easy to never see unicorns...just have your js blocker not allow cornify.com ...then you never even see the links.

  • Robbert (unregistered)

    I really like reading stories like this. It makes me realize how happy I should be that my company isn't completely insane/paralyzed.

  • Robbert (unregistered) in reply to Tom
    Tom:
    This sounds familiar.

    I did some time at a very large financial company. My computer was ancient and struggled to use the required toolset. My manager approved a brand new one.

    It arrived on my desk a week later and the old one was gone. I logged in and had to install the tools. The first installer comes up and says that I have to have administrator access. Unlike my previous machine, I didn't have admin rights on this one. I called help desk and they said a new policy was in place which prevented them from giving me that access. I brought up that it was standard practice for developers to have admin access to their own machine. They said it didn't matter. New policies and all.

    However, they helpfully sent a person by to do all of my installs. 2 days later and I was ready to go.

    Open Visual Studio, open the project, hit run... and boom. You must be an administrator to use the debugging tools.

    I submitted a help desk ticket, same response. I spoke with my manager, who spoke with his, who took it 3 more levels up. Nothing could be done. The policy was set by the site administrator who reported to a completely different branch of the company and no one could override him.

    Days went by and I couldn't do anything but sit and wait. I dutifully showed up to work every day, put in my time and went home. Incidentally: I was a contractor and the rates were very good. Every day I asked my boss if the policy was changed or if there was anything I could do. Every day he said no and that he was trying to get this resolved.

    During this time I brought in my own laptop but wasn't allowed to connect it to the network. So I proceeded to work on software for a new idea I had.

    After 2 months it was time for my contract review. The day before they laid off about 20% of the full time staff so I fully expected to simply be walked out. But no. The contract was extended for 2 years. During that meeting I asked if they had resolved the issues so I could do something. They said they were working on it.

    For kicks, I accepted the extension. Time continued to fly by as I was still unable to work. Meanwhile various people were being layed off (this was during the mortgage crisis) but I kept my job. Apparently a contractor warming a chair is more important than a full time regular employee like a QA tester or DBA.

    Eventually my group was disbanded and I was moved to a new one. However, that damned computer followed me. I told the story to my new boss and he went on a quest to get this resolved. More time goes by.

    After a solid year of not being able to do anything I was given a rate bump. Apparently my managers had all said good things about me. I'm not entirely sure why or how as all I did was sit in a chair. Unbelievable. 3 months after that I finally left. The software I was working on with my laptop was published and I was starting to make enough sales to move on.

    I wonder, if I hadn't left on my own if I would still be there collecting a rather nice paycheck to warm a chair. Probably. They are still in business.

    That's even better than the original story. I'm not sure if I'd call that situation luck or bad luck.

    Captcha: saluto I saluto you

  • Gman (unregistered)

    There are significant details about this article that are simply wrong and made up. From laptop chains to the ban on using another computer, to the draconian IT policies, to the outdated hardware and software.

  • Essex Kitten (unregistered)

    Hmm... Do you think I should try to get a job at Humongous Multinational Inc? It sounds like you go there so you can play Angry Birds on your phone, because Corp IT makes it really really hard for you to do your job. And you get paycheques for this too! I think I should keep this in mind.

    Captcha: augue - the sound someone makes when you grab their throat really hard, with both hands, without warning, so their tongue and eyeballs stick out like in the cartoons.

  • Ben R. (unregistered) in reply to Paul Neumann
    Paul Neumann:
    Oh:
    So the solution is VirtPC :( damnum. I was hoping for a more OS9 on OSX style integration.
    This is exactly how "Classic" worked. A virtual machine ran OS 9 and the application's windows were displayed directly on the OS X desktop. In XP Mode, Virtual PC runs windows XP and the application's windows are displayed directly on the Windows 7 desktop.
    Except, "Classic" integrated with the dock, VirtPC doesn't integrate running applications to the taskbar. "Classic" provided transparent access to the primary hard drive, VirtPC requires a virtual disk as primary. "Classic" worked, VirtPC not so much.

    Thanks for the info, however I am familiar with this setup already. I was hoping there was a more WoW integrated method... All [read: most] of the win32 libraries are already included in the WoW32_64 instalation, so I wouldn't think this should be as hard as it has been made to be.

    Virtual PC in Windows 7 is a new version. The old VPC client didn't have integration. In Windows 7 it does.

    XP programs will show up in your Win 7 start menu/programs list (if the links are in the shared user files space). Icons in the XP system tray area are put in Windows 7's notification area. XP Programs launched from Windows 7's start menu will load in a Windows XP frame alongside your Windows 7 programs.

    The only requirement for this integration to work, IIRC, is you must have the XP VM hibernating.

  • Jazz (unregistered) in reply to Geoff
    Geoff:
    Having had several hats in IT at various times, I have seen this from a number of sides and I don't have a good answer. You have different groups with what often amount to competing agendas... Its not an easy problem for a largish organization to solve –

    Except the answer is apparent, because this is a basic supply and demand problem. If you have a demand for all of these updates to your company-wide system, you have to employ enough people to set up test environments for the changes and work through them to find issues / solutions proactively. If you don't have enough man-hours in your current departments to both (a) execute your day-to-day responsibilities and (b) work on building / testing / documenting the next version of the system, then you very clearly need either more people, or a simpler system. A high school economics course covers this stuff.

    Geoff:
    – at least not cheaply.

    So? You only get what you pay for, and management already knows that (or at least, they should). If the executives want a functional company-wide system, they are perfectly capable of exercising their magic mystical powers of expense approval and purchasing the needed hardware and labor. If they don't do this, they clearly don't want it. When was the last time you heard an executive say "Man, I really want this Lexus, but I'm not sure if I can bring myself to purchase it?" It's the same thing. If they want it, they have the means and the authority to obtain it. The only people stopping them are they themselves.

    Geoff:
    You absolutely have to have a CIO with enough sense to see which way the wind is blowing.

    If the person in this role at your company doesn't have at least this much sense, how in the name of hell can they be considered to be qualified for that job? Would a firm hire someone to do market research for them whose only education was a car repair course at the local technical college? Of course not. So why would a firm hire someone to be their CIO who hasn't studied the technology landscape and had experience keeping up with it?

    God, I hate managers. They must be the only people who can go to business school for four years and still not understand the basic arithmetic of resource management. If 95% of the world's programmers were as underqualified and incompetent at their jobs as 95% of the world's corporate executives are, computers everywhere would explode into a spray of battery acid and magic smoke whenever you mistyped a word or clicked on the wrong button.

  • I Forget (unregistered)

    The real WTF is any program for which 2 GIGS isn't enough. Back in my day we had only 4k and liked it! We had to push our bits uphill both ways! 16k was awesome and if we were lucky we were blessed with 48k. When 640k rolled around, it WAS enough for anyone. Machines with 256 megs still seem like a sci-fi dream come true. You kids and your multi-gigabyte computers. If a program actually needs that much then you are either running an huge enterprise database, simulating nuclear models, or doing something very, very, very wrong.

    Oh, and a big "I told you so" to anyone who uses Active X crap like that. Warning since 1998 but no one listened.

  • Romojo (unregistered)

    I used to need access to a Windows XP box for DR testing (and any eventual DR). Once I tried to connect to it from my own Windows 7 box ... no response. I raised a call ... it had been tossed out as it was so old. Had to raise another call to get the XP box back before the next DR test.

    Happy days.

  • Ash (unregistered) in reply to Gman
    Gman:
    There are significant details about this article that are simply wrong and made up. From laptop chains to the ban on using another computer, to the draconian IT policies, to the outdated hardware and software.

    You must be new to the corporate world. Nothing there is unusual at all.

  • Monster (unregistered)

    PURE Sad...... Just Sad SAD SAD SADddddddddd......!!!!!!

  • david (unregistered) in reply to Cantabrigian

    Oh how mistaken you are.

    http://www.its-not-its.info/

    Although normally "'s" is used to indicate the possessive, "its" is the exception.

  • Mike (unregistered) in reply to Wody

    Only if you have the right type of CPU if I recall which an old box running XP might not have (hyper-v enabled). Still can use Virtual Box or something and for a simple ticketing system shouldn't need much for horse power/graphics.

  • Jerry (unregistered)

    I think you geeks have all missed the point of this story. FYI, I can relate this scenario having been subjected to it in a similar setting with the very same "security concerns" taking precedence over effectiveness and productivity. This one size fits all "secure" desktop modernization strategy seems to be some kind of international senior executives fad... Frightening.

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