• Silvermind (unregistered)

    Where's the camera and the OCR software?

  • KattMan (cs)

    Of course you know this is the original version of cut and paste, hence why it is called that.

  • The Dan (unregistered) in reply to Silvermind

    And the wooden table?

  • no wtf (unregistered)

    This isn't a wtf, thats actually a good cheap way of doing mockups.

  • Rich (unregistered)

    They'd print it?!.. why not just place the monitor onto a photocopier? Much easier.

  • Devin (unregistered)

    Most HCI experts or people working in the field will use cut and paste alot. Not a WTF unless you already know exactly what it should look like, so first bit a non-WTF, second bit, WTF use photoshop or paint!.

  • Manu (unregistered) in reply to no wtf

    agreed. Still, wouldn't hurt to have a scanner, so you could email those mockups... ^^

  • Daniel (unregistered) in reply to no wtf

    Right, this way we designed a whole stock application. And it was a "Great Success"! (See BORAT ;)

  • Villa (unregistered)

    I don't really see much of a WTF here. It's not a bad way of doing mockups, specially considering how a pain in the ass some image programs can be.

  • Big Dave (unregistered)

    Actually, I wouldn't mind receiving changes to a simple site like this. At least they understand enough of what they want to be able to do a mock up. You don't have to be computer savvy, but it helps to at least know what you want it to look like in the end. I think these people did a good job given their technical limitations.

  • Bill (unregistered)

    My manager back when I first started out used to take our status reports and do the same thing, then give it to the secretary to type up. He would print them all out, cut out the parts he wanted in his roll-up report. Write down some edits and give it to the secretary. (back when we actually called them secretaries).

    Same company whose paper based version control required me to print 600 pages of source code to check-in.

    Ahh, the old days (1993)

  • GalacticCowboy (cs)

    I had a manager for a while whose "engineering" background was in mining or something like that. Given how computer unsavvy he was, I'm not sure how he ended up managing a development team.

    On one occasion he:

    1. Printed out an e-mail from one of the team members
    2. Marked it up with red ink to correct all of the grammar and spelling mistakes (the only thing in the document he actually understood)
    3. Carried it over to the developer's desk
    4. Asked him to correct all of the marked items and
    5. E-mail it back to him when finished.
  • lazloman (unregistered)

    And they use their CD trays for coffee cup holder.

  • me me (unregistered) in reply to no wtf
    no wtf:
    This isn't a wtf, thats actually a good cheap way of doing mockups.

    Are you joking? A cheaper way of doing mock-ups? How is spending money on printing, faxing, glue, paper, scissors etc etc and taking ages to specifically cut and paste etc, cheaper?

    It takes longer and costs more.

    A simple cut and paste from the internet into a word document and then emailed off... way easier!

  • Tei (unregistered)

    Non a WTF.

    I may even add something... You can code with a pen, withouth a computer. Don't be so dependant of computers, you still have hands, and your brain is not directly connected to the machine.

    This type of mockup is more usefull to design a room, because often in a room "box" (a bed, a table, etc..) have a fixed size. On a webpage you can change the size of the elements, so is not that usefull. But not a WTF.

  • Anonymous Hacker (unregistered)

    My girlfriend once had to do a mockup of a website in crayon. Then the client asked her how it would look in yellow, and she had to redo it in yellow crayon.

  • drc (unregistered) in reply to Bill

    It's pretty common to use paper to visually design a site or some other thing...

  • T $ (cs)

    I'm pretty sure this is an urban legend, rather than a full-fledged WTF.

  • Dignis (unregistered) in reply to Rich
    Rich:
    They'd print it?!.. why not just place the monitor onto a photocopier? Much easier.
    Our fax machine isn't big enough!
  • ChiefCrazyTalk (unregistered) in reply to me me
    me me:
    no wtf:
    This isn't a wtf, thats actually a good cheap way of doing mockups.

    Are you joking? A cheaper way of doing mock-ups? How is spending money on printing, faxing, glue, paper, scissors etc etc and taking ages to specifically cut and paste etc, cheaper?

    It takes longer and costs more.

    A simple cut and paste from the internet into a word document and then emailed off... way easier!

    How is it cheaper? Have you priced photoshop or MS Office lately?

  • KattMan (cs) in reply to T $
    T $:
    I'm pretty sure this is an urban legend, rather than a full-fledged WTF.

    Actually I doubt it. A lot of layout people started with magazine layouts. You literally used cut and past with borders marked in non-photographic blue in a lot of places. Even my mother, as an editor, used this process. It helps when you can sit in a room with you ad people, typesetters and layout people and all layout a cover. Keep in mind these layouts were something like three times the size of the final print.

    People like that eventually moved to web site layout. Where do you think the fixed width, centered on the screen layouts come from?

  • asuffield (cs)

    "Their version"? That's the original meaning of the term. That's what the clipboard is emulating.

  • KattMan (cs) in reply to ChiefCrazyTalk
    ChiefCrazyTalk:
    me me:
    no wtf:
    This isn't a wtf, thats actually a good cheap way of doing mockups.

    Are you joking? A cheaper way of doing mock-ups? How is spending money on printing, faxing, glue, paper, scissors etc etc and taking ages to specifically cut and paste etc, cheaper?

    It takes longer and costs more.

    A simple cut and paste from the internet into a word document and then emailed off... way easier!

    How is it cheaper? Have you priced photoshop or MS Office lately?

    The cost of photoshop and/or office is a single one time purchase and not considered part of the layout process. Once that money is spent you are done. Now it is just time spent by the layout person. As to which is cheaper, how does the layout person work, how easily does it transport to the other stages of printing?

  • John (unregistered)

    So, in other words, they were doing an actual cut and paste. "Their version" was "the real thing".

    It always amazes me when people forget the actual origins of some instance of jargon. That would seem to me to be as much of a WTF (on the part of the OP) as the WTF of their client not having moved into the modern era.

  • Zylon (cs)

    So what's the deal with some posts having a grey background?

    Since grey is lower-contrast than white, I guess those are posts we're supposed to ignore, right?

  • me me (unregistered) in reply to ChiefCrazyTalk

    You can get free programs that you can create mock-ups with.

    And hello - use Open Office if thats such an issue.

    And to those people who are saying it's not a wtf, I disagree, as yes, paper and pencil can be used in the very very initial stages of design, but usually in an office of designers who are all brainstorming together, not faxed to a designer from a client.

  • Dylan (unregistered)

    I used to work on the website for a guy who sold jewelry, and every once in a while he'd decided certain sections needed to be reordered so that they looked 'fresh.' He'd also insist on doing it himself so that the arrangement of items on the pages had good aesthetic appeal.

    So he'd print out several pages on the site, and then spend a half day to a day cutting the thumbnails out and gluing or taping them back together. And then I'd have to use those pages to reorder what was shown on the site.

  • GalacticCowboy (cs) in reply to ChiefCrazyTalk
    ChiefCrazyTalk:
    me me:
    A simple cut and paste from the internet into a word document and then emailed off... way easier!

    How is it cheaper? Have you priced photoshop or MS Office lately?

    Paint.NET is free, open source and very powerful. It's about all I ever use anymore. It's not a Photoshop replacement, but it's definitely in the running as a PaintShop Pro or GIMP replacement... and Photoshop is too bloated for its own good.

  • gruckiii (unregistered)

    They are lucky they didn't get a web-site back that looked like pieces of construction paper pasted back together.. Hey, I thought you guys were going for an artistic look.

  • not a wtf (unregistered) in reply to me me
    A simple cut and paste from the internet into a word document and then emailed off... way easier!

    Using Word to render/design HTML? Now there is a WTF... Much more so than the article.

  • KattMan (cs) in reply to GalacticCowboy
    GalacticCowboy:
    It's not a Photoshop replacement, but it's definitely in the running as a PaintShop Pro or GIMP replacement... and Photoshop is too bloated for its own good.

    Get rid of the bloat in Photoshop and what do you have? A Paint Shop Pro replacement at a higher cost.

    A lot of PS plugins end up working fine in PSP.

  • Toger (cs)

    It very well could be easier for someone not technically inclined to mock up a display using scissor/paper instead of a GUI image manipulation tool.

  • Nick (unregistered)
    John:
    So, in other words, they were doing an _actual_ cut and paste. "Their version" was "the real thing".
    Hear, hear.

    I thought it was a bit ironic we were making such a fuss just because they were cutting and pasting! (inefficient as that might be).

    I find the terminology shift amusing in itself, taken out of context. What would people have thought 50 years ago if you told them to "tab to the next field, enter your home address, then click the OK button?"

  • j (unregistered)

    We had a client who would print out emails they received and actually fax them to us instead of forwarding them.

  • n9ds (cs)

    You are all, of course, assuming they know how to use Photoshop or Paint Pro or xOpenWhipUpAWebDesignThingie or whatever. Training on software is a non-trivial cost, and if you don't know how to use a piece of software, it could take you way longer than with pencil and paper, and wind up with a VERY frustrated user to boot. If someone plops you in front of a computer with an editor you've never used before, how long would it take you before you start cranking out code exactly the way you want to see it? And in the meantime, how many "G.D. M.F. software, it's so easy in my editor, how the !#$@ do you do it in this POS?" will you shout at the top of your lungs?

  • Lysis (cs)

    These stories are starting to sound like urban legends. I give this one a 9.5 on the bullshit scale.

  • ole gustie (cs)

    I am the guy who originally posted this. I agree that that the scissors and glue is not the world's worst WTF. In fact, I believe most of us can think of cases where we would have happily taken that "spec" over what we actually got. True, the client had a job where someone in her position should have been able to produce something a little more technically savvy. But oh well. To me, the funny part was the confusion over "cut and paste". For those of us who never lived without a computer, its kind of easy to forget that people had other ways to communicate graphics and design ideas long before photoshop was ever coded. It never occurred me that she could mean anything else besides Ctrl+X and Ctrl+V

  • TopCod3r (unregistered) in reply to GalacticCowboy
    GalacticCowboy:
    I had a manager for a while whose "engineering" background was in mining or something like that. Given how computer unsavvy he was, I'm not sure how he ended up managing a development team.

    On one occasion he:

    1. Printed out an e-mail from one of the team members
    2. Marked it up with red ink to correct all of the grammar and spelling mistakes (the only thing in the document he actually understood)
    3. Carried it over to the developer's desk
    4. Asked him to correct all of the marked items and
    5. E-mail it back to him when finished.

    So what? You think the manager should have just corrected all the grammar and spelling mistakes himself? What a nice and accomodating manager that would be :) But the employee would never learn anything then. By giving a red marked up hard copy of the email at least the employee realized the problems and was able to learn from it.

    All you youngsters need to realize that not all paper-based processes are WTFs!

  • TopCod3r (unregistered) in reply to j
    j:
    We had a client who would print out emails they received and actually fax them to us instead of forwarding them.

    Uh, maybe that client didn't want you to have an electronic version that you could forward around to everyone, ever think of that?

  • ammoQ (cs)

    Not a WTF. For a normal user, scissors and glue are BY FAR easier to use than photoshop. Plus they get all the artistic freedom to move every element to wherever they want it, without having to fight the Word's layout "features". Assuming it's something they do not regulary, and they are not powerusers, it's by far the cheapest and fastest way to create a mockup. Bonus points for not expecting the mockup to work.

  • Chris (unregistered)
    Comment held for moderation.
  • roxor (unregistered) in reply to TopCod3r
    TopCod3r:
    So what? You think the manager should have just corrected all the grammar and spelling mistakes himself? What a nice and accomodating manager that would be :) But the employee would never learn anything then. By giving a red marked up hard copy of the email at least the employee realized the problems and was able to learn from it.

    I guess you missed the fact that the employee was required to rewrite the whole mail in order to fix errors from them?

  • foo (unregistered) in reply to Bill
    Bill:
    My manager back when I first started out used to take our status reports and do the same thing, then give it to the secretary to type up. He would print them all out, cut out the parts he wanted in his roll-up report. Write down some edits and give it to the secretary. (back when we actually called them secretaries).

    Same company whose paper based version control required me to print 600 pages of source code to check-in.

    Ahh, the old days (1993)

    93! We were handing 8" floppies to the Source Control Librarian (named Lorraine) in 1981. Nobody ever printed code. Prior to that they used 9-track tape, but floppies were a real advance in terms of ease-of-use. It certainly gives you more satisfaction to create a physical thing then it does to type "cvs commit" as the result of a week's work.

  • Josh (unregistered)

    This actually is a great way to do UI mockup when you don't know exactly what you want to do yet. Get a couple people around a table moving stuff around. Then hire someone to code a prototype, you evaluate it then give green light to finish coding. This way they can also draw right on the paper without screwing around with illustrator or what have you.

  • billswift (unregistered)

    Paper is often, maybe even usually, better for anyone doing creative work. You people who seem to think there is something wrong with working on paper first should read this essay, Pen and paper rule!, and especially the comments, many of which are from engineers and mathematicians who are quite comfortable with computers.

    www.danieldrezner.com/archives/002731.html

    This "WTF" suggested that there were several people working together on the new layouts - anyone talking about doing collaborative design like that on a computer obviously hasn't thought it all the way through (if they have even done any real design work before).

  • Tomas Salfischberger (unregistered)

    Not to take away the fun of this WTF, but this is actually a documented prototyping strategy for interface changes like the ones described in the article...

    It is actually sometimes even done in the other direction (developers -> customer) with pencil-drawn prototypes, which has the advantage that it takes away the focus from the tiny layout parts (fonts, colors etc). And because of that the customer focuses more on understandability of the interface rather than for example complaining about your choice of green for the 1px line under the menu-item.

  • Franz Kafka (unregistered) in reply to Anonymous Hacker
    Anonymous Hacker:
    My girlfriend once had to do a mockup of a website in crayon. Then the client asked her how it would look in yellow, and she had to redo it in yellow crayon.

    we did this at a web shop in 2000 (with pencil). The casual nature of pencil prototypes and the ability to easily edit them means people don't treat them as sacrosanct like they would with html mockups.

  • Franz Kafka (unregistered) in reply to TopCod3r
    TopCod3r:
    GalacticCowboy:
    I had a manager for a while whose "engineering" background was in mining or something like that. Given how computer unsavvy he was, I'm not sure how he ended up managing a development team.

    On one occasion he:

    1. Printed out an e-mail from one of the team members
    2. Marked it up with red ink to correct all of the grammar and spelling mistakes (the only thing in the document he actually understood)
    3. Carried it over to the developer's desk
    4. Asked him to correct all of the marked items and
    5. E-mail it back to him when finished.

    So what? You think the manager should have just corrected all the grammar and spelling mistakes himself? What a nice and accomodating manager that would be :) But the employee would never learn anything then. By giving a red marked up hard copy of the email at least the employee realized the problems and was able to learn from it.

    All you youngsters need to realize that not all paper-based processes are WTFs!

    what did the employee learn? That the boss only cares about grammar? For all you know, it was team-level communication, which doesn't have to have good grammar or even spelling. Don't you think he has better things to do, like make money for the company?

  • Code Slave (cs) in reply to TopCod3r
    TopCod3r:
    GalacticCowboy:
    I had a manager for a while whose "engineering" background was in mining or something like that. Given how computer unsavvy he was, I'm not sure how he ended up managing a development team.

    On one occasion he:

    1. Printed out an e-mail from one of the team members
    2. Marked it up with red ink to correct all of the grammar and spelling mistakes (the only thing in the document he actually understood)
    3. Carried it over to the developer's desk
    4. Asked him to correct all of the marked items and
    5. E-mail it back to him when finished.

    So what? You think the manager should have just corrected all the grammar and spelling mistakes himself? What a nice and accomodating (sic! - accommodating) manager that would be :) But the employee would never learn anything then. By giving a red marked up hard copy of the email at least the employee realized the problems and was able to learn from it.

    All you youngsters need to realize that not all paper-based processes are WTFs!

    Speling an grammer mistakes happen all the times :-)

    However, you wouldn't correct someone's grammar or pronunciation in a face to face conversation - would you? So why would you do that in e-mail? It's rude and humiliating.

    I once had a manager who insisted that if he identified a spelling mistake in a document you wrote, that you write the word out 50 times so you would "learn" it. Of course those of us with dyslexia are bound to make certain spelling mistakes over and over again, and it is very difficult to see them in your own writing - at least right away.

    The only way I'd be doing either type of corrections would be if it was a condition of employment ("If I don't do this are you going to fire me?"); and even then the resume would be updated (proof read by someone else) and submitted to the world.

  • billswift (unregistered) in reply to Franz Kafka

    I'm glad I don't work on a team with you.

    Poor grammar or spelling, much less both, make your readers work harder to understand what you are trying to get across.

    If the spelling is bad enough, I don't even try to read comments, even on sites I like.

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