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Admin
When I was first out of Uni, I'd been working at a very small business and wanted to move on. So I went through the process of applying for various positions and was called up for several interviews.
One particular interview was for a mining company where i'd be working on embedded systems for some oil refinery up North (Western Australia). I'd been perfectly fine in my other interviews, no nerves or anything, and was looking forward to this particular interview as it seemed like a lucrative industry to set my sights on.
For some reason or another, I talked it up too much in my head and completely lost it at the start of the interview, nerves got the better of me. Anyway, I was asked:
"Name a few words to describe something positive about your self" Usual Drivel followed, (Hardworking, problem-solver, Attentive, works to deadlines)
Then:
"Name a few words to describe something negative about your self" I couldn't for the life of me think of anything to say and said the first word that came to mind... "Lazy"
I don't actually consider myself lazy, and I didn't mean to say it, needless to say the interview ended very quickly afterwards. What I wanted to get at was that I've found I can work like a freight train when there's a goal in sight, but with drifting deadlines, and dead end projects, or odds and ends I often find myself lacking motivation, as you would.
What If?? I could be neck deep in C code controlling the pressure release valve of a undersea gas/oil pipe at 900PSI. I'm perfectly happy in the financial sector at present though, all good.
CAPTCHA: dreadlocks, purely because thats one of the moments I wish I missed out on a job due to appearance as opposed to pure stupidity.
Admin
writes on interviewer's notepad "Doesn't understand the concept of a new pair of eyes. Possibly would refuse help from others because he 'knows everything'
Admin
lol
Admin
Not to spoil your cynicism, but I have seen plenty of people (myself included) offer to help once all our work is done. I don't think I've ever seen someone take half a day and go home to watch TV when their co workers were struggling to meet a deadline. Most people treat the entire project as their responsibility and work cooperatively to get it done (yes, I know, the word 'cooperatively' is not often used in the IT world).
Maybe my employer asks most interviewees that question (they didn't ask me) and it really does work to filter out the slackers like ObiWayneKenobi.
Admin
Sadly enough, this isn't that uncommon. I was at a job fair at my university (you know the kind, where hundreds of college students desperate for jobs line up for hours for a slim chance to slip their resume into a prospective employer's hands and maybe have one or two minutes to talk about potential jobs at the company) and almost the exact same thing happens. I was something like fourth in line, when the guy talking to the recruiter gets a call on his cell phone. He answers it and talks with the guy on the other line for a few minutes, all while standing right in front of the recruiter. I mean he didn't even have the decency to excuse himself and leave so one of us other desperate college students could have our turn.
Needless to say, the recruiter was a bit pissed off, and stopped talking with students one on one after that.
Admin
Admin
Well, Ive done exactlty two work interviews. Both were more than a little odd. My first inteview ever was with an IT support company for a side job during college. I had plenty of common knowledge understanding of networking but not too much hard facts to give then. One guy asked me about a default gateway and what it was for in lan communications. I explained it as well as I could, that it was used when there was no direct route to host. The guy corrected that all traffic in a lan went thru the default gateway when it was given.That did not make sense for me so I dared to disagree. I never heard from them again.
The second one was odd because the interviewers had no clue what position they were hiring me for. They did hire me tho and my new boss gave me a "small" task of parsing info from some log files. In two months I had started devloping tools they desperately needed so I was moved from production to IT and I love it here. Blind luck I guess :)
Admin
It depend,Am I paid as team??? If i have same salary but better result then rest of the team where is no place for team spirit...so going home and watching tv is a good idea.
Admin
I promise this is the absolute truth....
I attended two interviews in the UK for a job building servers for banks in the Middle East. I passed the written and practical tests fairly well and finally had to have a two hour interview with the CEO. This took place in a triangular office overlooking the town reclining in lazy-boy chairs.
The interview was relaxed and pleasant until this question reared its ugly head.
"It's customary for our customers to take their guests to the local executions where they have prominant front-row seats. How do you feel about that? What would you say when asked without offending them?"
Needless to say when I was later offered an IT job in the National Health Service I jumped at it rather than wait for the results of the previous interview!
Admin
the tick one sounds like either a lie or a test to see if you'd just walk out
Admin
When I was interviewing for my current job, we were all posed the question while being shown around by our potential employer (yes all interviewees at the same time), So... why do you want to work for us?
One lady pipes up: Oh, just 'coz it's another job isn't it? Fills the gap d'un it?
Needless to say she was unsuccessful and I was victorious!
Admin
Why is that needless to say? I wouldn't be thrilled by going to executions either. However, unless you want to say that you wouldn't deliver any kind of software for people like that, then the question is meant to see how you would react to what is probably the more difficult of their customers. Obviously you didn't qualify for the job on the grounds that you can't handle the social implications. Allthough, it is a valid choice not to work for people like that. Just give up large parts of the world as potential employers/customers.
What get's me about the first story, is the reaction of people. The was honest, but unless he was also brilliant it was a bad answer. Managers aint lookin for honesty, they have boots that need lickin. Seriously, he gets points for being honest, and demerits for being a (social)moron. Also, unless you're getting paid by the hour, you really are stealing company time.
My boss got it right though. He told me (in the interview) I don't care how many hours you make, I only check what you produce. If I could do my job in 1 hour a week, he wouldn't care. Ok maybe not that extreme (there's always things need doing around here). you get the point though.
Admin
I think its time to declare it, "The Real WTF Here" is the reactions people here are having to this story. I really hope you all or kidding, or that I'm never put on the same team (or hell, work for the same company) as you guys.
Anyways, what makes you think your result is better than the rest of the team? A bunch of you "I really would go home and watch TV" guys seem to be assuming that the coworkers in this hypothetical question are simply doing a poor job due to the fact that they can't get their work done, but that is unlikely the case. There are dozens of reasons why it would take one person longer than another to finish their work. The most obvious being that they had a harder job. It is almost never the case that the workload is distributed evenly when it is assigned to different team members. Its also perfectly feasible that these are less experienced team members who are struggling to learn the new material and could benefit greatly from the help given by more experienced team members.
And if you need more motivation, those employees that show themselves to be competent, helpful, and dedicated team members will often get rewarded with promotions, raises, bonuses, etc. Those that show themselves to be arrogant lazy pricks will often get rewarded with a stagnant career or a pink slip.
Admin
I have been an interviewer many, many times but the way I was assigned this task is the best:
One day I was sitting at the desk (as a developer) doing my ordinary coding job, and the receptionist comes up and says "Is <boss> around?". "No", says I, "He's gone to the xyz show with the networks manager, he'll be back in tomorrow.".
"Oh, ok", says receptionist. "Well his interviewee has arrived, here's his CV".
That'd be bad enough, but my boss had arranged no less than 4 interviews for that day....
He was good with interviews - another day, we were down the pub at lunchtime with the boss (and taking our time about it.... the boss was there so it was OK) and one of the contractors rushed in, "where's <boss>, where's <boss>?" he exclaimed, "his interviewee's just turned up".
And when he interviewed me? He kept me waiting for 50 minutes (another 10 and I wouldn't have been there...), and during it the rest of the team had a meeting so he nipped out to participate for 5 minutes.
It turned out OK though, I enjoyed working there, possibly because of his responsibilities that we could take on.
Admin
I have been an IT project manager at a bank for 3 years.
I knew it was my responsibility to divide up tasks and to make certain they meet the deadlines we agree with the customer (mostly other bank departments) and developers about.
Thus as part of my responsibilities, it was setting realistic deadlines for tasks and subtasks. If a person has done his task sooner than expected, I can and will of course assign him a new one. I might take into account that he is quicker on uptake and I can ask for a leaner deadline for next task possibly.
However, I would never ever think bad of a programmer because he wasn't utilizing the extra time he received by being quick, on asking for new tasks. I made it clear that I wanted them to do the job that we agreed upon, in time we agreed upon. As long as they did that, I was happy and our customers were happy too, because they got what they wanted in time we agreed upon.
Funnily enough, we were quite succesful, and the most curious part was my programmers really WERE coming up to me and asking for extra tasks to do, even though I didn't ask them to.
Admin
In my 9 year career (spanning three positions), I have NEVER had nothing to do. Between the major projects, training, defect fixes, planning, support tickets, and helping out teammates there's always something to do.
Granted... I have never worked a contract job, so my experiences may be different than others.
Admin
once again - this is simply, give me extra money i will do extra tasks, otherwise i do what is my "duty". Once i finish some tasks very soon before dedline, from this time my boss shorted always deadlines for me and i worked under big pressure.
no more.
Admin
Reply to nwbrown, quote omitted.
Don't know if they are serious or not but the indignation people show here is the honest and sensible reaction when you find out that your employer expects you to do more work than what he is willing to pay you for doing.
Agreed when you work by project it makes sense to help others so long as you get credit for it, or if you have to work a given amount of time. But this obviously is a "by task" job.
I think most of us will actually try and help struggling coworkers, but to be expected to do it without it being part of the job description, is a very shameless thing to ask for.
Admin
Did it ever occur to you that it's a lot easier to ask for "extra money" if you have actually shown that you're able to work faster or do more than your peers?
Admin
What the hell are you talking about? My employer expects me to work for 8 hours a day. They also expect me to keep them abreast of my progress and to stay busy.
On the flip side, if I'm more efficient than my coworkers, I expect to be rewarded.
Once they fail to me my expectations, then I'll fail to meet theirs.
Admin
And your duty is to work the number of hours per day/week/month/year that your job calls for and you are paid for. If I'm paying a developer a salary based on the expectation that s/he will work a 40-hour week, I expect them to work a 40 hour week. If they don't, they don't work for me. I'm paying the salary for work, not for loafing.
If a developer is obviously working at less than their level in order to avoid work or come in early against a deadline, they'd quickly either get much shorter deadlines or again, be looking for a different job.
You'd be looking for a job very quickly, I suspect.
Admin
I used to call BS on these kinds of stories until I saw it for myself (well, second-hand). At the job I'm in now, I was talking with my manager and coworkers and they were telling me about some of the other prospects they were considering before finally settling on me (the req had been open for 6 months!) One fellow in particular started off the interview by saying "I'm not really interested in this position, but the HR folks wanted me to come".
Admin
Admin
So yeah, maybe that's why they ask that question.
Admin
The tick story gave me the heebiedabajeebies
Admin
The real WTF is that the URL above says "see Figure 3" while there is no figure in the page.
Admin
FWIW, my take:
This is simply 1 approach to "job". Another one is that I am paying for a job that needs to be done, and I pretty well know how much time it could realistically take.So, instead of having a quantifiable estimate of my work - ie. done task X in amount of time Y, you want me to show up that I am doing amount {as_much_as_i_can} in amount of time Y, and moreover you would be the judge based on how many of my peers are doing another stuff in the same time... taking into consideration that in development there are generally not 2 people working on the SAME task (wouldn't make sense, would it?).
I find the whole ideology of "from 9 to 5 your ass is mine" repulsive. It is never yours, you don't hire my brain, we contract to do a task, or a number of tasks. That's it. I do my tasks, you give me checkie, period. If you want more, go offer me stock options or something.
Sounds lazy? Hell, if I wanted to work my ass off, I'd start my own company instead of working for somebody else. Paid work is for those of us lazy enough to not to want to go to the hassle.
Don't get me wrong. It is my responsibility as a hired worker to do my tasks on time, and in good quality, provided of course they are doable(Half of WTFs here btw, is about mgmt expecting the manna from heaven by lunchtime). It is part of my ethics as a co-worker, to help my colleagues when I can.
However, I'll be damned if I stay for one hour in any company where the boss thinks that the fact I work here, means I can't organize my work to take a 5min break to read my email or go take a walk through nearby park, if needed. I know when my brain needs cooling, and I refuse to be a tube filled with stimulants by the age of 40, while the company thinks ... hmm, this guy is nearly burnt out, let's kick him and take another.
Admin
That's probably not the reason you get laid off. The reason guys like that get laid off is because they don't have work to do. And they don't have work to do because 1) They're incompotent. Anything remotely important has been taken away from them and management it just waiting for an excuse to fire them. 2) They're lazy, and weasel their way out of doing anything and management lets them get away with it because... 3) Their job just isn't that important.
Admin
So the real WTF is, "why would anybody ever let themselves finish early?". When the only reward for doing good work is more work, what's the point?
Admin
Fighting communism and working for a raise.
Admin
And somewhere, there is an Executive laughing on a golf course because people buy into that logic.
If I'm on salary, that means I get paid X to do Y. If I'm expected to work longer when we're running behind schedule, then I expect to get time off when we're running ahead of schedule.
Your boss doesn't work for free, and neither should you.
Admin
Too bad Y in this case is "work 40 hours a week," unless you are a contractor.
Admin
Ummm... You are rewarded. You do cash your paycheck, don't you?
If you feel you've proven that you're more efficient than your coworkers, negotiate a raise for yourself. If you decide to fail to meet theirs instead, you have no one to blame but yourself for failing to progress or for losing your job.
Admin
I don't know what that's supposed to mean (or refer to, even) in relation to my post.
You seem to be referring to doing work for hire, where I ask you to do a project and you quote me a number of hours and an hourly rate. That isn't what we've been talking about here.
Again, I don't know what you're talking about here, unless it's again the work for hire thing. My "quantifiable estimate" of your work would be in monitoring your progress on the work you'd been assigned to complete, and comparing it to your observable skills and level of competency. No one said anything about two people working on the same task; at least I didn't.
I again never said anything about being able to take a break or check email. I never said that you shouldn't be able to surf the web for job-related materials, either.
Look. My post was related to all the posters who responded positively to the "go home and watch TV" comment. If you're being paid to work 40 hours a week, and you finish your assigned work in 30 instead, you don't "go home and watch TV", or "surf the web", or "play games", or anything else like that if there is work remaining on the project. You check to see if you can help by taking over part of someone else's task, or help track down an elusive bug by being another set of eyes. Hell, work keeping the damned coffee pot fresh or be a gofer for sodas to help keep the other coders at their desks if you want. Just do something that advances the project toward the deadline. Completing projects is what keeps the company in business, remember? Which in turn keeps the paychecks from bouncing.
I'm all for flexible hours. You'd rather work 7 to 3 instead of 9 to 5? Fine. Want to work 10 to 6 instead? Sure, no problem. Want to work 10 to 2 and play foosball the rest of the day? Fine, if you're not being paid hourly and the project is finished. Don't think that's fair? We can handle that. We can change you to an hourly employee so that you only get paid for the hours you actually work, or we can arrange for you to permanently locate the nearest exit. Your choice.
Admin
No, the point is that people who finish early and help other developers or start the next project are the ones who get promotions and raises. If that doesn't happen where you work, find another job.
Admin
Maybe that wasn't clear. I meant I expect to be able to negotiate a larger reward if I do my job well.
I was responding to the sentiment "my employer won't reward hard work, so I won't work hard" by saying that I assume the opposite -- I'll work hard and be rewarded. I realize I will have to take control of my own destiny on the reward side of things... it's the business world. I just didn't spell that out.
Admin
Once I interviewed some wise guy kid. At the end of the interview, where his body language made it obvious he didn't care about the job - I concluded and asked him if he had any questions: "yeah, where'd you get that shirt, man?" I was wearing an American Eagle Outfitters shirt. I told him I got it at Ross, thanked him and chucked his resume in the bit bucket.
Oh, and once when I was 'between jobs' after the big dot-bomb, I was being interviewed and the VP asked me "...so, what kind of schedule would you like?" I told him I liked the schedule I had - you know, sleeping past noon, getting up to check email, surf the net, and then back to bed for a nice nap... we laughed, and I still got the job. It was so... "office space" b/c I really didn't care at that point.
captcha: alarm - pulling one prior to your interview is a good way to dodge it.
Admin
Every job I've ever worked, from software development jobs to working at the supermarket, its always implied that you will not just do the minimum amount of work that you can get away with. Its not shameless, its expecting your employees to be responsible adults.
Admin
I was interviewing for a contract position with a retailer once to design and implement their replication for their point of sales system. I had been a SQL dba for 6 years at that point. I started the interview with "I have never done replication. Do you want to continue this interview?"
I worked there for 19 months until we were all done. And a lot more than just the replication.
Admin
exactly, be managed=stressed by a big dick, who is not able to wrote one line of code,who is thinking that i will work for his company more then 40 hours a week-to fulfill his incredible requests (yes sometimes it goes easy, sometimes you need more time)- and of course only for enjoying of work (without payment)??? Maybe you will be suprised, but work and success of my company aren't most important things in my life. If somebody offers me a better job, i don't care about company, i will go...
Admin
Regarding the first case, I'm firmly in the "I'd try and help the others out" camp. But I think that deserves an explanation, so let me tell you my reasons:
The "trust" part deserves a little more detail. I trust my team mates to handle their assignments as best as they can. So if I finish my part early, my automatic assumption is that they hit a snag or something. I don't question their competency or dedication unless they give me big, fat reasons to do so.
As for Brooks' Law, sometimes a new pair of eyes can help tremendously, simply because the newcomer thinks differently and (at first) looks at the problem from outside. Unless, of course, there's too much explaining to do. It really depends on the situation. I recommend wisdom.
Admin
I read these when I eat my lunch at work.
I almost choked on my pasta during "I think I have a tick".
Admin
You, I'd hire in a heartbeat! Someone with ethics and a sense of responsibility!
Admin
Solar Charger, hand-crank generator, bicycle-typed jury rig ... etc.
Admin
Excuse me, but which planet are you on ? The one sure-fired thing for a corporate career to become stagnant is to be a specialist who is/has become too good in his expertise and job position. The management will be happy to have (finally) put a square peg into a square hole. On the other hand, "arrogant lazy pricks" correlates pretty good with "PHB" ...........
Admin
I followed the US Army link mentioned in the URL above and found the figures there.
Admin
Actually, that's a pretty poor example of a question, in the first one, but not total crap. I use variants of it (with a bit more leeway) to determine what type of person I'm dealing with. I don't expect anyone to give the obvious "wrong" answer (though it has happened, rarely), but rather I look for variations. For example, do they handle minor problems by immediately hauling in the boss or by talking to the folks involved or what...and do they seem comfortable with the answer they give. I seldom use more than 1 such question in an interview, with an "obvious" answer, but I'm usually looking for the variations in that "obvious" answer when I do. The folks who give the obviously-wrong answer just amuse me and weed themselves out.
Admin
It's not about being able or unable to handle the job. Handling the job implies solving problems, and sometimes being stuck. If you never face any challenges, and never get stuck, then your joob is too easy.
Admin
When companies stopped taking care of their people.
It used to be that you could spend an entire career at a company and be taken care of from the day you start to the day you die. Those days are long gone and most employees are treated as disposable cost centers. Companies would rather screw you around, screw you over or offshore you. That's why so few people associate their own destiny with that of their employeer anymore.
When I was at EA, my bonus for a title that was a best seller was less than the bonus I got for a dud that we shipped prior to being assimilated (by EA). The bestseller sold 100x more copies than the dud did.
Admin
but everyone who works in games knows EA sucks period. it's why so many people jump ship when their company gets bought out.