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Admin
Isn't Step 1 to building a competing project not to use the competitor's proprietary technology (VB6 and thus Windows only)?
Admin
If the old axiom "A fool and his money are soon parted" were really true, how is it that people like these always have all the money?
Admin
I thought step 1 was to steal your competitors proprietary technology.
Admin
I cringe as I hear the screaching brakes of the colliding trains.
captcha - jiggles
Admin
Interestingly, the EULA for Visual Studio (and other development tools from MS) explicitly forbids making word processors, spreadsheets, or presentation applications (among other Office components). I can't wait for the rest of this series :)
Admin
Actually, I believe the EULA for the Visual Studio prevents the software from being used to create any application that would compete with Office.
Admin
I got it!, this one was sooooo easy!
The real WTF is that they were using VB. Everyone knows that VB is for kids.
Silly rabbit, VB is for kids.
Admin
Helps to read this post in that movie trailer voice.
"IN A LAND, WHERE COMMON SENSE TOOK THE LAST TRAIN OUT...."
Regardless, captcha: Enterprisey. This is promising.
Admin
I though the EULA was to stop you using the MSDE (or Sql Server Express) to create a competitor to Access. That said IANAL and it was a while ago I read it.
Admin
BASIC is for begginers, is what the B on BASIC mean.
But you can write very good applications with BASIC. But then, basic sould be the "glue" betwen C++ coded widgets.
<<An avid programmer himself, the CIO knew exactly how they could accomplish this. He convinced The Founder that, with a handful of programmers helping him, he could develop a client/server Microsoft Office Killer using Visual Basic 6. And with the latest hardware available, their application could easily scale to support twenty million users using one, maybe two servers. And best of all, it would all take only six months to create.>>
Who in the correct mind will suggest VB for something everybody else will use C/C++? Is not the correct level (as in assembler low level, C medium level, Basic high level).
WTF#1 try to redone something big hard and withouth obvius problems that is a killer app and everybody love.
WTF#2 "hire a boy for a men's work"
Admin
Unless I'm looking at the wrong EULA.txt for my installed Visual Studio 2005, it makes no mention of spreadsheets or word processing applications at all. In fact, it makes no limitation of what type of software you can make with it.
If I'm reading it wrong, I would love to see the section of the Eula you're referring to.
Admin
VS.NET (2003) EULA Section 3.2 (a):
Microsoft SQL Server Desktop Engine (“MSDE”). If you redistribute MSDE you agree to comply with the following additional requirements: (a) Licensee Software shall not substantially duplicate the capabilities of Microsoft Access or, in the reasonable opinion of Microsoft, compete with same; and (b) unless Licensee Software requires your customers to license Microsoft Access in order to operate, you shall not reproduce or use MSDE for commercial distribution in conjunction with a general purpose word processing, spreadsheet or database management software product, or an integrated work or product suite whose components include a general purpose word processing, spreadsheet, or database management software product except for the exclusive use of importing data to the various formats supported by Microsoft Access. A product that includes limited word processing, spreadsheet or database components along with other components which provide significant and primary value, such as an accounting product with limited spreadsheet capability, is not considered to be a “general purpose” product.
Admin
I've got it! I'll just make a form with one big, multiline textbox, a save button and spellcheck.
Admin
The WTF is the introduction
Recalling his days as a Digital PDP-11 programmer, he knew that he could write financial software that would support fifty users, perform great, and run in 256-bytes of memory.
and the conclusion
He convinced The Founder that, with a handful of programmers helping him, he could develop a client/server Microsoft Office Killer using Visual Basic 6. And with the latest hardware available, their application could easily scale to support twenty million users using one, maybe two servers. And best of all, it would all take only six months to create.
Admin
SHOOT! You stole half my thunder! I was going to say the SAME thing! VB, however, is a LOUSY and WORTHLESS language to write an good editor in though! It DOES come with tools to ADD prebuilt functionality but M/S FORBIDS its use to compete, and it is NOT generally as good as M/S word!
And 20,000,000???? With VB???? FORGET IT! On 2 servers? What were they smoking?
BESIDES, who uses a competitors proprietary interpretive technology to compete against that competitors NATIVE technology? Just THAT spells DISASTER!
Steve
Admin
I need some DB software, AJAX and everything in between to count and track the WTF's that must be coming during the next three days.
*is giddy with anticipation*
Admin
Then, there's the opposite end of the spectrum -- the guys over at LindenLabs (Second Life) can only support 30 users per server.
Admin
<sarcasm>Just like I'm creating the next Halo/Doom/Quake/UT killer in javascript... And because I'm using javascript, I won't have to worry about browser compatibility since all browsers support javascript...</sarcasm>
....
lol... can't wait for the next installment!
;-P
Admin
My personal favorite is the Ideas Happen contest, sponsored by Microsoft Corp.
This is from the fine print:
"By entering, each entrant forfeits to Sponsor all rights to content of his/her entry (including the essay) and the concepts embodied therein. Entrant unconditionally assigns and transfers to Sponsor all rights, title, interest and claim, which it now has or may in the future have to the entries or any element(s) thereafter including, without limitation, the copyright therein. Sponsor shall have right to use, alter, assign or dispose of such entries however it sees fit without approval of entrants."
Now I can see why they want contestants to patent their innovations. If they didn't, Microsoft would obtain the copyright, but no patent rights, and they couldn't patent the thing themselves because it's not their invention. The only way for them to get a patent is for the inventor to patent the invention, then transfer the patent rights to M$ - really clever. If they wanted, they could then disallow the contestant to use his own invention. Talking about theft of intellectual property...
Steve B.: I got four words for you: I... LOVE... THIS... COMPANY - YEAAAAAH!
Admin
Thats the re-distributable database engine, not the C++ compiler. Which, while restrictive, is somewhat understandable. They basically dont want you using their own database engine to compete with them.
Captcha: tps
I'll have those cover sheets for the reports this afternoon.
Admin
Augh. Bash away. I use VB6. Primary job. Pays the bills. But it's not suited to such an app. Sorry.
It is, however, a very good tool for a handful of business Basic programmers who are afraid (yes, afraid) to tackle anything so hard as C or Java. And the apps it produces can be very good.
To the point, however, I believe that _anyone_ who believes that a major app (like office) can be feature-complete and relatively bug-free in 6 months, regardless of the language, has not spent enough time actually trying to produce such an app.
Admin
Oh! So they're the ones that wrote MS Works? Cool!
Admin
That depends on what version of VS you've paid for.
Admin
No, that's not true. The EULA for MSDE (client-side database) prohibits creating Office-like tools, but that's it. I can create the next great word processor using C# without a problem, as long as if I need a database I don't use MSDE....
Of course the idea of creating an "Office Killer" with VB6 scalable to millions of user on a couple of servers (scan someone say 8-thread COM limit?) is so ridiculous you might as well say you're creating the next internet with string and tin cans....
-Me
Admin
The QUESTION is, DID Virtudyne's product have AutoEMPHASIS(TM) ?
captcha: batman
Admin
First WTF using VB.
Second WTF VB 6
Third WTF hiring a CIO that encouraged VB
Admin
Every cliche has a counter: "You have to spend money to make money". So for every 5 disasters they have one huge success that compensates for it. It's not a bad method if you can stomach it.
Also, in many cases they just crooks that appear rich. Most of their apparent wealth is either given to them by investors or taken out as loans. The appearence of wealth gives others confidence in their ability to manage money and it kind of snowballs from there (and eventually crashes). These people tend to live in cycles of being extremely rich and extremely poor.
Admin
Usually after such a preface like this, you put something like "And so, things went pretty downhill from there..".
So I don't believe, this party of VB-Office-Killaz can survive three more parts, before the inevitable total annihilation, that's quite apparent.
Admin
Funny. That's very close to what my last boss said to HIS DBA. It went something like "those SQL servers pretty much run themselves".
He's now putting that theory to the test, as I've managed to get that DBA hired at my CURRENT place of work (someplace that appreciatespeople's talents). I can still make out the faint red handmark on our new DBA's face from that slap.
Admin
This WTF reads like a teaser/trailer for a horror flick. The sentence...
... was like the scene in "The Grudge" where Sarah Michelle Gellar is washing her hair in the shower and suddenly
... that extra gray hand pokes out of her hair! I almost fell out of my chair.
I'm pretty sure the rest of this series will be rated R, for retarded.
Admin
Steve, on my keyboard I have something of great use between the "," and the "/" and under the ">". It looks like this: "."
It's easier to type than shift-"1" and works just as well. You should have a look on your keyboard to see if you can find the same thing. Note, if you are from a strange and funny country it may be in a different place.
I must confess I would love to see you talk in person. I have an image of Magnus Pike in my head.
Admin
Well actually back then the EULA said you couldn't use JET or MDAC to write an competitor to Access, but the idea is the same.
Admin
Not one mention of first born children. Man, Microsoft did go soft after those anti-trust hearings.
Admin
This only applies "If I redistribure MSDE" with my app.
Admin
Okay, now THAT was an awesome analogy. Almost better than the WTF.
Good job ... take the rest of the day off.
Admin
Let me guess. VB6 is the killer part?
Admin
The truth is out there: whenever a "programmer" starts to say he's a guru, self-proclaimed God, expert or all around know-it-all watch out he's probably behind the curve on what's going on with all the technospeak and the Suits and the actual experts. I'd say that DBA who turned down the job was correct - you smell a fish it's fishy...
Admin
They only go after the first-borns when they need support staff ...
Admin
But VB6 isn't subject to the vs2003 EULA.
Admin
Wait a minute - MS has been trying to debug Office for - what, 20 years now? and they're still at it. Why would anyone think they, or any army of programmers could do it a mere six months?
Admin
Oh, you think VB 3 would have been a better choice?
Admin
An avid programmer himself, the CIO knew exactly how they could accomplish this. He convinced The Founder that, with a handful of programmers helping him, he could develop a client/server Microsoft Office Killer using Visual Basic 6. And with the latest hardware available, their application could easily scale to support twenty million users using one, maybe two servers. And best of all, it would all take only six months to create.
I bet the Founder was convinced about the Visual Basic 6 part, just looking at how easy it was to drag and drop buttons, menus, and multiline textboxes. (I've not recovered from my previous gig where I had to endure opinions about software development being all about drag and drop).
Twenty million users using one , or two servers ?
This must be how the entire thing worked out -
Da Founder : Ok, so can you show me how twenty users can use this at the same time ?
CIO : Yo man, look over here. Dis window can create one extra window for each user to work on. Man, you wanted 20 users, right? You have them right away, buddy.
Admin
Well, it could have been worse... They could have tried to do it in Java!
Admin
We all know the internet is made of tubes.... duh.
Admin
i'd use VBA and office automation.
Admin
I find it funny that VB is so often referred to as not being an object-oriented language. In fact, since version 4 VB has supported the Encapsulation and Polymorphism aspects of the OO Holy Trinity. Before .NET, VB did not support True Inheritance, but as we used to say at a previous job, "Inheritance is a great way of ensuring that the bad decisions you make at the start of a project stay with you forever."
Admin
I understand that! Oggiejnr made the comment that it only applied to MSDE and I copied the section of the EULA that proved that statement to be correct. In no place in my post did I claim anything otherwise. I guess that'll teach me for not using the "Quote" button...
Admin
The Real WTF (tm) is that the story's in 4 parts awwww
Admin
Ever hear of OpenOffice?
Admin
You're right, the VB6 EULA restricts documentation and JET:
1.2 Documentation. This EULA grants you, as an individual, a personal, nonexclusive license to make and use an unlimited number of copies of any documentation, provided that such copies shall be used only for personal purposes and are not to be republished or distributed (either in hard copy or electronic form) beyond the user's premises and with the following exception: you may use documentation identified in the MSDN Library portion of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT as the file format specification for Microsoft Word, Microsoft Excel, Microsoft Access, and/or Microsoft PowerPoint ("File Format Documentation") solely in connection with your development of software product(s) that operate in conjunction with Windows or Windows NT that are not general purpose word processing, spreadsheet, or database management software products or an integrated work or product suite whose components include one or more general purpose word processing, spreadsheet, or database management software products. Note: A product that includes limited word processing, spreadsheet, or database components along with other components that provide significant and primary value, such as an accounting product with limited spreadsheet capability, is not considered to be a "general purpose" product
4.1.3.1 "Jet" Files. If you redistribute the "Jet Files" (as identified in the SOFTWARE PRODUCT ) you agree to comply with the following additional requirements: (a) your Licensed Product shall not substantially duplicate the capabilities of Microsoft Access or, in the reasonable opinion of Microsoft, compete with same; and (b) unless your Licensed Product requires your customers to license Microsoft Access in order to operate, you shall not reproduce or use any of the Jet Files for commercial distribution in conjunction with a general purpose word processing, spreadsheet or database management software product, or an integrated work or product suite whose components include a general purpose word processing, spreadsheet, or database management software product except for the exclusive use of importing data to the various formats supported by Microsoft Access. Note: A product that includes limited word processing, spreadsheet or database components along with other components which provide significant and primary value, such as an accounting product with limited spreadsheet capability, is not considered to be a "general purpose" product.
4.1.3.2 Microsoft Data Access Components. If you redistribute the Microsoft Data Access Component file identified as MDAC_TYP.EXE, you also agree to redistribute such file in object code only in conjunction with and as a part of a Licensed Product developed by you with a Microsoft development tool product that adds significant and primary functionality to MDAC_TYP.EXE.