The Daily WTF: Curious Perversions in Information Technology

2009-08-06 Reply Admin

Jay:
Richard:
ubersoldat:
Nuthin:
You think this is bad? CVS works the same way: if you copy a directory from your local working repository to a different location on disk, edits to that other location show up in the main repository. I found this out the hard way when I reused a substantial portion of code in a new project, only to have the engineers on the older project cussing at me for breaking older code. The worst part? My new changes weren't committed to the new repository, either, so neither codebase worked.

Yes, been there, seen that. I can't thank god enough that I went on vacation during those three weeks when my co-workers found out about cvs directories.

This seems like its own WTF -- "know your tools". Either do a cvs export to get a clean copy of the source without the CVS metafiles, or clean the CVS metafiles out of the source code after you copy it. I'd call the cussing justified.

Yeah, like I once bought a car where it turned out that when you turn on the radio, the car automatically turns left. After the accident I complained to the dealer, but he just said, "Hey, you should know your car."

Moral: If your software behaves in non-intuitive and destructive ways, blame the user.

The real WTF is that people don't think "wait, this CVS thing implements a client-server protocol, but doesn't ask me where the server is every time I use it...that means it must have metadata that tells it where the server is...it must store its metadata somewhere...maybe it's in these directories named "CVS" in BLOCK CAPITAL LETTERS that are strewn all over my project? Maybe those directories are not the result of Paula's capitalized consonant fetish, and they actually do something?"

Kind of like not noticing that someone has installed big hydraulic pressure hoses with "LEFT" printed on them, connecting something behind the radio to something behind the steering wheel, or waiting until you've driven out of the dealer's lot and into traffic to turn on the radio, or assuming that using CVS is in any way similar to driving a car.

If you do a commit on a large CVS tree, and someone has grafted branches onto the tree that have CVS metadata from another project, then CVS will happily switch projects as it recurses into the branches. This is actually a feature, because it lets you merge libraries or similar code modules into your working directory without making a similar change at the central repository. You can treat the entire working tree as a single unit while merging and committing changes from HEAD wherever that code lives, without having to remember the details of which code belongs to which repo after initial setup. Of course, whether you should do this is a different discussion topic...

2009-08-06 Reply Admin

Nuthin:
You think this is bad? I don't know how CVS works and blame it for the mistakes I make by assuming things rather than actually finding out.

FTFY

2009-08-06 Reply Admin

Oren:
galgorah:
Forget source control software. They should set up an entire office somewhere in the middle of the country to handle source control. when someone wants to work on a file they initiate a request for the file, by fax of course. The checkout department will then mail them out a disc with the file on it. once the designer is done working on the file they mail it back to the checkin department who will send send it to the merge department via inter-department mail. Once this is done the file can be sent to the history department where the hardcopy will be filed away in a cabinet somewhere.

funny, but with the magic cookie all you have to do is mail them the project file. merge is done... well.. auto-magically. and history - who the hell needs it?

After you've had enough of those magic cookies, the source doesn't really matter any more, duuude...oooh... duuuuuuuude... heh....duuuuuuuuuuude....

2009-08-06 Reply Admin

Zygo:
CVS is very challenging for the new generation of developers who expect their tools to do everything for them without understanding the implementation details.

Developers who don't understand the implementation details? Yay! Happy chocolate fun time!

2009-08-06 Reply Admin

Actually, they do make a native Linux version.

2009-08-06 Reply Admin

WTF TheDailyWTF?

The "greater than" < symbol is breaking your rss title.

Perhaps ">" would have been more appropriate.

2009-08-06 Reply Admin

analrapist:
Linfag:
chris:
Easy, open all the projects on a "real" server first. Or basically any machine you're not going to turn off or crash.

Oh, do they make a Linux version of the product?

Ever heard of Wine?

Wow, wine can do source control too. Wow, what a project!

Heron · 2009-08-06 Reply Admin

Jay:
Moral: If your software behaves in non-intuitive and destructive ways, blame the user.

If you copy a working copy, you shouldn't expect to get a non-working copy.

If you want a clean copy (with no metadata), you should use "export", not "check out". (The alternative - selectively copying individual files, rather than entire directories - is also somewhat acceptable.)

2009-08-06 Reply Admin

Wait.... engineers were excited about semi-transparent windows? Seems to me that functionality would be the major concern for this group. Let the marketing department salivate over stupid graphics features that bog down performance and needlessly elevate system requirements.

Or by "Aero" do you mean that stupid Office '07 tactic of hiding the menu bar in a round button and hogging up the workable space with ribbons?

2009-08-06 Reply Admin

analrapist:
Zygo:
CVS is very challenging for the new generation of developers who expect their tools to do everything for them without understanding the implementation details.
Developers who don't understand the implementation details? Yay! Happy chocolate fun time!

Way to go to miss the point.

Let's rephrase: CVS (and many other CLI tools) are all well and good if you impose the restriction that junior/new generation programmers are only allowed to access them through the GUI. Junior/new generation programmers understand GUIs. Unfortunately, the fact that all GUIs represent a subset of the equivalent CLI functionality can turn round and bite you.

In this case, the extra functionality provided by the CLI (ie "cp -r") actually requires the medulla to be connected to the fingertips by some intermediate bit of trained grey tissue.

System Admins are adept at freezing developers out from things that might actually be useful, like access to database schemas or the ability to restart simple daemon processes. They are not yet adept at locking down the dangerous ability to open up a bash shell.

Perhaps the day is fast approaching when they should do so. The only alternative I can see is to fire 90% of the idiots out there on a three-strike basis when they catastrophise their limited comprehension of what the OS actually does.

Zygo:
If you do a commit on a large CVS tree, and someone has grafted branches onto the tree that have CVS metadata from another project, then CVS will happily switch projects as it recurses into the branches. This is actually a feature, because it lets you merge libraries or similar code modules into your working directory without making a similar change at the central repository. <snip _can_/_should_ ... read up above/>

This is a feature in the same way that the Elephant Man's nose was a feature. Anatomically improbable, and best left as an itch not scratched.

2009-08-06 Reply Admin

notromda:
Jay:
Richard:

This seems like its own WTF -- "know your tools". Either do a cvs export to get a clean copy of the source without the CVS metafiles, or clean the CVS metafiles out of the source code after you copy it. I'd call the cussing justified.

Yeah, like I once bought a car where it turned out that when you turn on the radio, the car automatically turns left. After the accident I complained to the dealer, but he just said, "Hey, you should know your car."

Moral: If your software behaves in non-intuitive and destructive ways, blame the user.

That's an absurd analogy. A closer one would be that you hit the gas and rammed into a wall, failing to hit the brake pedal.

When using a source control system like cvs or svn, there's obviously some magic that ties it back to the main repository. Knowing the tools of source code control should be required in CS courses.

You seem to have a misconception about what "CS" is.

Kazan · 2009-08-06 Reply Admin

What's with all the blanket moronic hatred on junior developers?

Stop confusing "junior developer with a degree from a respected university" to "intern with no education or experience".

nobody survived a group project with me in university if they didn't know how to use their damn tools - they either learned or i had the professor remove them from my group and fall them for gross incompetence.

all but one of them learned.

Heron · 2009-08-06 Reply Admin

Leo:
You seem to have a misconception about what "CS" is.

I believe that your point is "Computer Science is not the same as Computer Programming", and while I agree with you on a technical level, I think any CS program worth its salt should include various programming courses, at least one of which should include frequent use of a source control program.

That's how I learned how to use git (my Operating Systems class).

Kazan · 2009-08-06 Reply Admin

Heron:
I believe that your point is "Computer Science is not the same as Computer Programming", and while I agree with you on a technical level, I think any CS program worth its salt should include various programming courses, at least one of which should include frequent use of a source control program.

they do. or they loose accreditation

these morons are confusing "dumbarse selftrained basement hacker" with "junior developer"

we have two interns here - one of them is a completely untrained newb: but with great potential. i mentor him a lot - although i'm the "junior developer" I'm the most technically skilled in my team. all the other developers on the team received degrees of various natures, rarely CS, 20 to 30 years ago.

actually kinda pisses me off. that and the fact that our software is a WTF-in-motion [original people who wrote it abused singleton and factory, and excessively abstracted things.. maintenance nightmare].

anyway back to the interns. the other is a taught-by-his-"godlike programmer"-father. idealizes everything his dad says. is often a skilled programmer, but doesn't understand real world juggling of conflicting requirements in the slightest. gets annoying. that and his apple fanboism.

[edit] oh yeah.. the first 300 level programming class you have to take at the uni i got my degree requires you to learn to use CVS. wish they would switch to SVN.

too bad they have an epic fail of a coder teaching the class.

Erzengel · 2009-08-06 Reply Admin

Kazan:
What's with all the blanket moronic hatred on junior developers?
Stop confusing "junior developer with a degree from a respected university" to "intern with no education or experience".

nobody survived a group project with me in university if they didn't know how to use their damn tools - they either learned or i had the professor remove them from my group and fall them for gross incompetence.

all but one of them learned.

Don't mistake "a degree from a respected university" for "competent" or "skilled". If the university professors and TAs were like you and actually cared, them maybe, just maybe a degree would mean something. But we here at TDWTF see a lot of articles whose cause are people with "degrees from respected universities", as well as "degrees from the university of nepotism". Are there any about the people who have the "degree of autodidacts"? A few, I suppose, which just goes to show that it's the individual more than the degree.

Heron · 2009-08-06 Reply Admin

Kazan:
all the other developers on the team received degrees of various natures, rarely CS, 20 to 30 years ago.

My previous employer is a civil engineering software company that was originally a research lab at the local university. They split off as their own company so they could make more money.

Almost all of the full-time programmers there either have a degree in Civil Engineering or no degree at all. The result is lead programmers who are civil engineers who argue with the part-time CS student programmers (i.e. me) about the "right" way to write maintainable software. Sure, I should argue with my manager, but when he does things that, say, completely destroy the safety of file scope in C++, I can't just stay quiet... sigh

That's the long way of saying "I feel your pain".

2009-08-06 Reply Admin

Bim Job:
Let's rephrase: CVS (and many other CLI tools) are all well and good if you impose the restriction that junior/new generation programmers are only allowed to access them through the GUI. Junior/new generation programmers understand GUIs. Unfortunately, the fact that all GUIs represent a subset of the equivalent CLI functionality can turn round and bite you.
In this case, the extra functionality provided by the CLI (ie "cp -r") actually requires the medulla to be connected to the fingertips by some intermediate bit of trained grey tissue.

Actually I have dealt with far more trouble from the GUI tools than from CLI over the years. Novice users at least understand that there are sorcerer's-apprentice-like consequences for getting things wrong with the CLI, but at the same time they assume that if they use the GUI the "system" will somehow keep them out of trouble.

I'd rather field 100 "how do I copy a folder on Unix using rsync?" questions every day than clean up after the one prat who connected two critical Windows shares (*) to his PC and dragged something non-trivial between them. Usually because the latter requires adding an on-disk pre-storage stage to the site's backup infrastructure and extra staff to handle the volume of restore requests, while the former often results in users who learn how to think about what they are doing, and in rare cases, even use simple automation tools responsibly.

What's the probability that the original CVS problem was triggered by someone blindly assuming that 'drag XXX to YYY in Windows Explorer' wouldn't have potentially disastrous consequences for both code bases later on?

Bim Job:
System Admins are adept at freezing developers out from things that might actually be useful, like access to database schemas or the ability to restart simple daemon processes. They are not yet adept at locking down the dangerous ability to open up a bash shell.
Perhaps the day is fast approaching when they should do so. The only alternative I can see is to fire 90% of the idiots out there on a three-strike basis when they catastrophise their limited comprehension of what the OS actually does.

I see no problem with the alternative; otherwise, what the hell do we have certification and training programs for? Are we all so desperate for coders and short on deadlines that we can't insist that new hires learn the shop tools thoroughly before they start working outside of a training sandbox? Are we all so clueless about the need for adequate training that we assume everyone we'll ever hire is preprogrammed from birth knowing how all of the tools we happen to be using today work?

Zygo:
If you do a commit on a large CVS tree, and someone has grafted branches onto the tree that have CVS metadata from another project, then CVS will happily switch projects as it recurses into the branches. This is actually a feature, because it lets you merge libraries or similar code modules into your working directory without making a similar change at the central repository. <snip _can_/_should_ ... read up above/>
This is a feature in the same way that the Elephant Man's nose was a feature. Anatomically improbable, and best left as an itch not scratched.

That's OK, the feature never worked for non-NFS remote repositories anyway. This is CVS, after all, where even the features are bugs.

(*) Yeah, yeah, I know...one critical Windows share is a WTF, two is worse than failure...

2009-08-06 Reply Admin

analrapist:
Linfag:
chris:
Easy, open all the projects on a "real" server first. Or basically any machine you're not going to turn off or crash.

Oh, do they make a Linux version of the product?

Ever heard of Wine?

I knew they were making cars that run on fermented corn, but computers that run on fermented grapes? Now that's just cool. Or a waste of good liquor.

2009-08-06 Reply Admin

Demaestro:
WTF TheDailyWTF?
The "greater than" < symbol is breaking your rss title.

Perhaps ">" would have been more appropriate.

You mean the "less than" symbol?

Math: It works.

2009-08-06 Reply Admin

Anonymous Coward:
There is bad design, really bad design and then you have incompetence. Guess in which category that concurrent strategy falls...

I often find myself saying, "That is bad design, but it is competent design. In fact, that is really bad design. But it is still competent design." I'm just kidding. I would never say that, because my first language is English.

2009-08-06 Reply Admin

OP:
Jack's company had several major design centers across the U.S. and sometimes, they would reuse portions of each other PCB projects between the sites or use the files for training purposes. To accomplish this without stepping on each other’s toes, the infrastructure group set the privileges on the CAD file servers to be read-only. As a result, designers could copy the file to their hard drive and play with it to their heart's content without fear of disrupting a production PCB project in another office.

TRWTF is that they're using remote file service for...well, just about anything, really, but it's an especially bad tool for multi-user engineering projects using CAD tools. Half the CAD tools I've seen hardcode absolute directory paths into the project files, and can't be copied or renamed without failing in subtle but serious ways on a single user's machine, let alone across a network.

CVS is 13 years old, and as primitive and ugly as it is, it's still orders of magnitude better than letting people randomly push collections of files around shared file servers (even if only one writer is allowed) with no atomicity, audit trail, change notification, conflict resolution, data consistency, difference analysis, history, logging, or enforced separation of derived files from source files.

If you don't like CVS (and what sane person does?), there are numerous tools available which all implement the basic feature set and are all better than just exporting steaming piles of data in random states of completeness and consistency to the four winds.

I wouldn't be surprised to learn these guys had all kinds of problems with manufacturing downstream getting the various data files in board revisions mixed up (unless they had teams of engineers whose entire job was wrangling that data by hand...which, sadly, is par for the course in this domain).

2009-08-06 Reply Admin

Zygo:
Bim Job:
Let's rephrase: CVS (and many other CLI tools) are all well and good if you impose the restriction that junior/new generation programmers are only allowed to access them through the GUI. Junior/new generation programmers understand GUIs. Unfortunately, the fact that all GUIs represent a subset of the equivalent CLI functionality can turn round and bite you.

Actually I have dealt with far more trouble from the GUI tools than from CLI over the years. Novice users at least understand that there are sorcerer's-apprentice-like consequences for getting things wrong with the CLI, but at the same time they assume that if they use the GUI the "system" will somehow keep them out of trouble.

I was, of course, trying to defend your point of view (inadequately). Somewhere on a Platonic cave wall there exists a carving of the Turing Rosetta Stone:

Gibberish: If it isn't intuitive to the user, it must be badly designed. Sanity: Show me a computer program/interface that would be intuitive to, say, Leonardo da Vinci, and I'll agree with you.

Gibberish: You can be an idiot in any programming language. Sanity: True. But some idiots are more equal than others; some programming languages, less so.

Gibberish: You Ain't Gonna Need It. Sanity: Excuse me? Why should I accept this Big Up-Front Design Decision?

And so on. There's a lot of gibberish out there. Most decision makers (as in the OP) seem to pick the Style over the Substance.

You're right, though. It's just as possible to encourage stupidity via a GUI as it is via a CLI. In the case of CVS, I'd argue that it's much, much easier to limit this stupidity to manageable levels; in the case of most file systems (particularly networked, and I'm platform-agnostic otherwise), not so much.

Zygo:
I see no problem with the alternative; otherwise, what the hell do we have certification and training programs for? Are we all so desperate for coders and short on deadlines that we can't insist that new hires learn the shop tools thoroughly before they start working outside of a training sandbox? Are we all so clueless about the need for adequate training that we assume everyone we'll ever hire is preprogrammed from birth knowing how all of the tools we happen to be using today work?

The question ... is the answer, sadly.

Zygo:
This is CVS, after all, where even the features are bugs.

Hee hee hee. CVS merge, anybody?

2009-08-06 Reply Admin

ContraCorners:
Fast Eddie:
Evo:
Brett Allen:
I am a Vista lover, but I do recognize it's downfalls.

That reminds me of myself. I love being stung by mosquitoes...
Hey, Who doesn't?
Err... umm... ahh... I'd bet my rent money that none of you has ever been "stung" by a "mosquito."

I'll be happy to take that bet. :) I know mosquitoes don't have "stingers" but technically speaking, being "bitten" by a mosquito qualifies as having been pierced by an irritating process and thus "stung".

transitive verb 1: to prick painfully: as a: to pierce or wound with a poisonous or irritating process b: to affect with sharp quick pain or smart

2009-08-06 Reply Admin

NC:
On further thought, the problem was that you copied the CVS directories along with source code. The CVS/Repository file has a link to the project. You ended up with a second local repository pointing to the old project after the 'cp -r' command, not a local repository pointing to the new project.
There is a WTF here about insufficient training on CVS. Even though it's pretty simple to use, it isn't so simple you can be totally ignorant about how it works.

Hey, psst... It's called a working copy, not a repository.

2009-08-06 Reply Admin

Zygo:
... Are we all so desperate for coders and short on deadlines that we can't insist that new hires learn the shop tools thoroughly before they start working outside of a training sandbox? Are we all so clueless about the need for adequate training that we assume everyone we'll ever hire is preprogrammed from birth knowing how all of the tools we happen to be using today work? ...

Not so much the first one as the second. Or rather, it seems people in charge of hiring tend to be ill-informed, and thus fail/refuse to distinguish based on training, or are "budget conscious", choosing whoever claims they can do the work cheapest.

Training credentials may not be necessary, or even desirable, for private-use and non-critical projects. Even so, there exists plenty of software systems used in public infrastructure, healthcare, and other failure-sensitive areas that are designed and implemented by people who really have no clue what they're doing, and really have no business doing the work.

Basically, under the (usually reasonable) assumptions that there are fewer qualified people than unqualified, and that unqualified workers will usually ask for less money than qualified workers: for a given class/type of system, unless it somehow becomes law that unqualified people cannot be hired to design/implement that class/type of system, there is a disproportionately high chance that an unqualified person will be hired to do the work.

I'm not about to try to define what "qualified" means. Many texts have been written on the topic without coming to a complete answer.

rfsmit · 2009-08-06 Reply Admin

Bim Job:
Maybe 1% of humanity uses a source-control system.

My goodness -- you mean more people use a source-control system than have a computer?

Wow.

I wonder if you know what you just said.

rfsmit · 2009-08-06 Reply Admin

rintintin:
Anonymous Coward:
There is bad design, really bad design and then you have incompetence. Guess in which category that concurrent strategy falls...

I often find myself saying, "That is bad design, but it is competent design. In fact, that is really bad design. But it is still competent design." I'm just kidding. I would never say that, because my first language is English.

Thank you. This was the most entertaining thing today on thedailywtf.com.

2009-08-06 Reply Admin

RandomUser423659:
I'm not about to try to define what "qualified" means. Many texts have been written on the topic without coming to a complete answer.

You can read texts, and you can meditate, and you can go on a training course, and you can sit on the river-bank and dangle a hook, hoping against hope that Moby Dick hasn't swum upstream.

I have the answer for you. It is painfully simple. In this business, if a candidate is unqualified, it will be painfully obvious to all concerned (possibly even the candidate) within a week or two. At this point you fire the unqualifiee. It may take a week or two longer, depending upon Lawyers and Sharks, but you fire them.

Trust me. It's better for everyone. Paper qualifications are a poor substitute.

rfsmit · 2009-08-06 Reply Admin

Bim Job:
RandomUser423659:
I'm not about to try to define what "qualified" means. Many texts have been written on the topic without coming to a complete answer.
You can read texts, and you can meditate, and you can go on a training course, and you can sit on the river-bank and dangle a hook, hoping against hope that Moby Dick hasn't swum upstream.
I have the answer for you. It is painfully simple. In this business, if a candidate is unqualified, it will be painfully obvious to all concerned (possibly even the candidate) within a week or two. At this point you fire the unqualifiee. It may take a week or two longer, depending upon Lawyers and Sharks, but you fire them.

Trust me. It's better for everyone. Paper qualifications are a poor substitute.

And this is what "trial period" means. This also means that after you've been turned down for a job, you need to call the company and ask them how their new hire is working out.

2009-08-06 Reply Admin

rfsmit:
Bim Job:
Maybe 1% of humanity uses a source-control system.
My goodness -- you mean more people use a source-control system than have a computer?
Wow.

I wonder if you know what you just said.

Within a certain degree of tolerance, yes; abbreviated in order to illustrate a point. Probably by three or four degrees of magnitude, and qualified by the obvious "maybe" ... but, hell, what's a few powers of ten between friends?

My goodness -- you mean less than 60 million people "have" a computer?

Wow.

I wonder if you know what you just said?

2009-08-06 Reply Admin

Wait.... engineers were excited about semi-transparent windows?

                ==== litotes

your head -----> @_@

2009-08-06 Reply Admin

Junkie:
steenbergh:
They should've gotten Visual SourceSafe...
IBM Rational ClearCase

Having used ClearCase on a reasonably large project in a corporate environment, and suffered through it's hour-and-a-half long checks-out, frequent failed checks-in and occasional breakage of my working copy (which still remained in "ghost" form on the server - better hope you hadn't locked any files, the server will remember but won't let you unlock without an admin), I simply can't imagine what Sourcesafe must be like to get called the worst source control in existence.

2009-08-06 Reply Admin

veto files(S)

This is a list of files and directories that are neither visible nor accessible. Each entry in the list must be separated by a '/', which allows spaces to be included in the entry. '*' and '?' can be used to specify multiple files or directories as in DOS wildcards.

GalacticCowboy · 2009-08-06 Reply Admin

Dan:
Wait.... engineers were excited about semi-transparent windows? Seems to me that functionality would be the major concern for this group. Let the marketing department salivate over stupid graphics features that bog down performance and needlessly elevate system requirements.
Or by "Aero" do you mean that stupid Office '07 tactic of hiding the menu bar in a round button and hogging up the workable space with ribbons?

I can imagine semi-transparent windows coming in EXTREMELY handy when designing physical circuits. You're familiar with how ICs are physically constructed, of course?

Coyne · 2009-08-06 Reply Admin

Hmmmmm ... I used to think one copy of every object was a good thing. Have to re-think that a bit.

2009-08-06 Reply Admin

Ironically, I am at this very moment using a PCB design program that is almost certainly from the anonymous company in question. We don't have the super cool new release though. I guess it is a good thing that our IT department is glacially slow to distribute updates...

2009-08-06 Reply Admin

Bim Job:
rfsmit:
Bim Job:
Maybe 1% of humanity uses a source-control system.
My goodness -- you mean more people use a source-control system than have a computer?
Wow.

I wonder if you know what you just said.
Within a certain degree of tolerance, yes; abbreviated in order to illustrate a point. Probably by three or four degrees of magnitude, and qualified by the obvious "maybe" ... but, hell, what's a few powers of ten between friends?

My goodness -- you mean less than 60 million people "have" a computer?

Wow.

I wonder if you know what you just said?

Doesn't Pirate Bay have three times that number of unique peers?

2009-08-06 Reply Admin

Jimbo:
Junkie:
steenbergh:
They should've gotten Visual SourceSafe...
IBM Rational ClearCase

Having used ClearCase on a reasonably large project in a corporate environment, and suffered through it's hour-and-a-half long checks-out, frequent failed checks-in and occasional breakage of my working copy (which still remained in "ghost" form on the server - better hope you hadn't locked any files, the server will remember but won't let you unlock without an admin), I simply can't imagine what Sourcesafe must be like to get called the worst source control in existence.

It's basically like that, but every now and then it blows up for no obvious reason.

2009-08-06 Reply Admin

TheFourDutchmen:
SkaveRat:
[insert some funny comment, refering to the content of the article]

Not enough wall-to-wall sunshine in that comment

WALLsunshineWALL

Technical Thug · 2009-08-06 Reply Admin

Demaestro:
WTF TheDailyWTF?
The "greater than" < symbol is breaking your rss title.

Perhaps ">" would have been more appropriate.

And they didn't use ♥ or ♡ or ❤.

Unicode is so cool, I can't wait until we support it.

2009-08-06 Reply Admin

Zygo:
Doesn't Pirate Bay have three times that number of unique peers?

Arrr, matey, there ye'd be wrong. Anywise, I'd never be tempted to peer. Never has been, never wooden (apart from me big toe -- blasted off by a drone, damn me whiskers).

"Pieces of 2^8! Pieces of 2^8!"

Damn me tooth-pegs, if those Mohammedan scoundrels from Tunis don't have a fair point. A fool I was, a fool I was, to teach Polly her nominals...

She'll be starting CompSci 301 at Stanford next semester. I understand it's an excellent college, and won't give anybody a failing grade.

Even if they're a parrot.

Technical Thug · 2009-08-06 Reply Admin

Kazan:
Heron:
I believe that your point is "Computer Science is not the same as Computer Programming", and while I agree with you on a technical level, I think any CS program worth its salt should include various programming courses, at least one of which should include frequent use of a source control program.

they do. or they loose accreditation

CVS is required for accreditation? My college (very well-known, perhaps even the gold standard for CS) never taught us how to use CVS. Some students taught seminars on how to use it, and the theory classes covered it in theory.

I did do group projects without CVS. And that is probably the most direct lesson I could get on why to use CVS. Now I use it even on personal throw-away projects.

2009-08-06 Reply Admin

rfsmit:
Bim Job:
RandomUser423659:
I'm not about to try to define what "qualified" means. Many texts have been written on the topic without coming to a complete answer.
You can read texts, and you can meditate, and you can go on a training course, and you can sit on the river-bank and dangle a hook, hoping against hope that Moby Dick hasn't swum upstream.
I have the answer for you. It is painfully simple. In this business, if a candidate is unqualified, it will be painfully obvious to all concerned (possibly even the candidate) within a week or two. At this point you fire the unqualifiee. It may take a week or two longer, depending upon Lawyers and Sharks, but you fire them.

Trust me. It's better for everyone. Paper qualifications are a poor substitute.
And this is what "trial period" means. This also means that after you've been turned down for a job, you need to call the company and ask them how their new hire is working out.

Please allow me to rephrase.

I'm not about to try to define what "qualified" means, because I'm sure every reader has their own opinion, and while this may be a fun place to discuss such things, it is rarely constructive. Try a blog.

2009-08-06 Reply Admin

Technical Thug:
Kazan:
Heron:
I believe that your point is "Computer Science is not the same as Computer Programming", and while I agree with you on a technical level, I think any CS program worth its salt should include various programming courses, at least one of which should include frequent use of a source control program.
they do. or they loose accreditation
CVS is required for accreditation?

Pretty sure he meant the

Heron:
...any CS program worth its salt should include various programming courses...

part, but it's not clear since the whole sentence is quoted.

Technical Thug · 2009-08-06 Reply Admin

oh, nevermind me, i suck.

GalacticCowboy · 2009-08-06 Reply Admin

Technical Thug:
Kazan:
Heron:
I believe that your point is "Computer Science is not the same as Computer Programming", and while I agree with you on a technical level, I think any CS program worth its salt should include various programming courses, at least one of which should include frequent use of a source control program.

they do. or they loose accreditation

CVS is required for accreditation? My college (very well-known, perhaps even the gold standard for CS) never taught us how to use CVS. Some students taught seminars on how to use it, and the theory classes covered it in theory.

I did do group projects without CVS. And that is probably the most direct lesson I could get on why to use CVS. Now I use it even on personal throw-away projects.

He said "loose accreditation" - so clearly what he meant was that their accreditation would be so loose as to be worthless.

2009-08-06 Reply Admin

RandomUser423659:
Please allow me to rephrase.
I'm not about to try to define what "qualified" means, because I'm sure every reader has their own opinion, and while this may be a fun place to discuss such things, it is rarely constructive. Try a blog.

What, you mean blogs are constructive? Dear me. Send us a list, why don't you.

Next thing we know, you'll be telling us that Access is a perfectly sensible database choice for the oughties.

Or maybe that a CAD system which presupposes a random serverlet with sessions controlled by a magic cookie is actually a good idea?

Well, wonders will never cease. Or, as Polly says, "Aaaawk!"

I have high hopes for the girl. She's got blue eyes and blonde plumage; it's not Law, but she'll still fit in well, so long as she doesn't shed. Who knows, after Stanford, she might even be able to devise a method of communication that precludes idiocy.

But then again, parrots aren't best known for holding their breath.

2009-08-06 Reply Admin

You would think that Aero would not be important to engineers. However, there is a well-known 3D Mechanical Design CAD package which is susceptible to a corrupted graphics display even when using several 'certified' graphics cards and 'tested' drivers. The word from the software company is:

"For the case of only a little square/rectangle updating, we are aware of it and working on a solution asap. In the cases we've had directly reported, and been able to reproduce, this is occuring[sic] only wth[sic] Aero disabled. If you are runnng Vista and seeting[sic] this issue, you may want to try enabling the Aero interface."

Thank goodness this user of said software is using XP x64.

Jim S.

MichaelWH · 2009-08-06 Reply Admin

Jay:
Richard:
This seems like its own WTF -- "know your tools". Either do a cvs export to get a clean copy of the source without the CVS metafiles, or clean the CVS metafiles out of the source code after you copy it. I'd call the cussing justified.

Yeah, like I once bought a car where it turned out that when you turn on the radio, the car automatically turns left. After the accident I complained to the dealer, but he just said, "Hey, you should know your car."

Moral: If your software behaves in non-intuitive and destructive ways, blame the user.

This. This!

I fucking HATE the "RTFM" crowd. How about making your software suck less instead of documenting its black hole-like suction in a CYA move?

2009-08-06 Reply Admin

vsadv

We <3 Concurrent Engineering

Leave a comment on “We <3 Concurrent Engineering”