• Ronald (unregistered) in reply to Malenfant

    So, instead of just saying "you're wrong", what's your version of how it would work?

  • Matt (unregistered)

    The Real WTF is that the instant client doesn't have an installer or an uninstaller, it's just a .zip file that you extract and add to your path--hence the 'instant' in instant client.

  • (cs) in reply to Ronald
    Ronald:
    So, instead of just saying "you're wrong", what's your version of how it would work?

    Simple, as has already been intimated, the chance of the homeless person being given the job at any rate which would allow him to find a place to live and lift himself out of poverty is zero.

  • Ronald (unregistered) in reply to Malenfant
    Malenfant:
    Ronald:
    So, instead of just saying "you're wrong", what's your version of how it would work?

    Simple, as has already been intimated, the chance of the homeless person being given the job at any rate which would allow him to find a place to live and lift himself out of poverty is zero.

    And why do you claim this is so? The McDonalds manager will act against his own self interest, and hire a more expensive person who will not produce as much return on investment? What do you imagine would motivate the manager to do that? You're not explaining your view, you're only making unsupported assertions.

  • Krenn (unregistered) in reply to wrtlprnft
    wrtlprnft:
    It probably didn't host the file, but it had access through it over some file share, and the permissions to delete it.

    And to me, that's the real, real WTF.

    A central shared file can work; but then you make damned sure it's not alterable without special steps being taken.

  • Ken (unregistered) in reply to Ronald
    Ronald:
    Malenfant:
    Ronald:
    So, instead of just saying "you're wrong", what's your version of how it would work?

    Simple, as has already been intimated, the chance of the homeless person being given the job at any rate which would allow him to find a place to live and lift himself out of poverty is zero.

    And why do you claim this is so? The McDonalds manager will act against his own self interest, and hire a more expensive person who will not produce as much return on investment? What do you imagine would motivate the manager to do that? You're not explaining your view, you're only making unsupported assertions.

    As a former fast food hiring manager, first impressions are everything. If you put in an application and smell bad or cause people to get out of line because they lose their appetite smelling you I'm not even going to hold on to your application. Even if he was willing to work for $2 an hour if he can't present himself in a way that brings customers in instead of driving them away I cannot hire him.

    It sucks I know. I have actually had to turn someone away because they were not well kept enough to serve food. And I have had to fire someone who could not keep themselves clean to a healthy standard. Food service is not the place for someone without means to take care of themselves. There are laws about cleanliness for people who handle food. Overnight stocking might be a better place to start for that.

  • Outside observer (unregistered) in reply to Ronald
    Ronald:
    silent d:
    You're a McDonald's manager and a homeless person walks in and asks for a job. Now what do you do?
    1. Ask him how much he wants to be paid. 2. Discuss the expectations of the job including cleanliness and how he plans to measure up. 3. Use my best manager experience and instincts to estimate whether he will help us earn more than the pay rate in #1. 4. Compare his probable return on investment with any other applicants. 5. Since he is homeless, he has few expenses, so is willing and able to work for less than other applicants. This provides me a higher return on investment. So I hire him. 6. Obama and the nice Democrats, over the objections of the mean Republicans, raise the minimum wage. This changes the math, and now I can no longer get a positive return on my investment. I am, therefore, left with no choice. I must terminate his employment.

    This concludes our illustration of how "nice" people create misery such as unemployment and homelessness, while "mean" people are trying to make things better for everyone.

    Ronald:
    Malenfant:
    Ronald:
    So, instead of just saying "you're wrong", what's your version of how it would work?

    Simple, as has already been intimated, the chance of the homeless person being given the job at any rate which would allow him to find a place to live and lift himself out of poverty is zero.

    And why do you claim this is so? The McDonalds manager will act against his own self interest, and hire a more expensive person who will not produce as much return on investment? What do you imagine would motivate the manager to do that? You're not explaining your view, you're only making unsupported assertions.

    I believe the argument being made is that it sort of falls apart at step 5. If you're hiring him because his homelessness makes him cheaper, it is likely that he won't ever be paid enough to stop being homeless. If he did, you would be paying him as much as a non-homeless person, which negates your reason for hiring him. Which leads to, "I can no longer get a positive return on my investment. I am, therefore, left with no choice. I must terminate his employment."

  • (cs) in reply to Someone who can't be bothered to login from work
    Someone who can't be bothered to login from work:
    I don't know how it is where you are, but here it's nearly impossible to get a job without a permanent address.

    The post office still accepts mail addressed to "General Delivery".

  • EatenByAGrue (unregistered) in reply to md5sum
    md5sum:
    I think it's the same thing as the homeless person holding a sign that states "Will work for food" right beneath the McDonald's sign that says "Now accepting applications". Yeah, I've seen that, literally. You can't tell me this guy can't find work, he just can't find work he wants to do all the time.

    And important part of this you may not be aware of: McDonald's and other fast food joints post that up on their sign frequently do so not because they have open positions but because they want to scare their current employees.

  • Zapp Brannigan (unregistered)

    He knocked down their house of cards.

  • (cs) in reply to ceiswyn
    ceiswyn:
    It's not actually unreasonable to assume that uninstalling client software will only affect files on the client PC.

    Not if there are files on a shared that happens to be mapped to a drive and for which one gets full access rights. An uninstaller has no way to know if a path is an actual path on a local drive or on a remote drive via SAMBA.

    This whole situation sounds to crazy to be true. If Lennart was able to remove that shared file by running an uninstall program from his PC, then everyone with the same access rights could do as well.

    This would also imply the reverse, running an install program. For the WTF to occur, it means that at least from Lennart's PC, the installer was run and was explicitly pointed to create the tnsnames.ora file on that share (either by installing the software on that same shared drive, or by having it point to it.)

    Either way, the installer will not put that file there by itself. It has to be directed by whoever is running it. And if there was a risk of running an uninstall in another machine (probably multiple ones according to the story), it means that the reverse also took place:

    That multiple users also run the Oracle client install on their machines in the exact same retarded way, pointing all of them to have their tnsnames.ora file to the exact same shared location.

    What are the chances of that happening without ever realizing they are stepping into each others' toes?

    They would be overwriting whatever someone else installed first (or they re-set the ORA_HOME env. variable or some other env.var manually and after the install), which would make it very unlikely for the uninstaller to find.

    I've seen people abusing shared drives and files, but this Oracle Install voodoo behavior? Sorry, don't buy poorly written works of fiction :)

  • (cs) in reply to Lorne Kates
    Lorne Kates:
    That depends. Does the homeless person only have 3L and 5L jugs, or can he borrow a 4L jug from the shopping cart lady?
    Nice.
  • Rene (unregistered) in reply to Dirac
    Dirac:
    tnsnames.ora is always great fun, especially since the client looks for the file in multiple places in a particular order.

    It gets even more interesting when you have multiple programs that require multiple (incompatible) versions of the oracle client libs. Especially because some programs hardcode the paths (which is a dump idea at any day, since we run Windows with a number of different languages).

  • NorgTheFat (unregistered) in reply to jimolina

    Yeah, I guess you're right, performance isn't the issue. The real issue is not having the tsnames backed up/documented...

  • jimbobmcgee (unregistered) in reply to Matt
    Matt:
    The Real WTF is that the instant client doesn't have an installer or an uninstaller, it's just a .zip file that you extract and add to your path--hence the 'instant' in instant client.

    And yet, I can choose to install/uninstall the InstantClient from the Oracle Universal Installer in both 10gR2 and 11gR1.

    Not that I've ever been able to get it to work (but that's might be because in 11g its 150MB and in 10g it's 498kB and I've only tried in 10g).

  • (cs)

    Wonder if *nix installs would have suffered from the same/a similar issue?

    @luis.espinal - maybe, but you're making a lot of assumptions yourself,aren't you?

  • bozo the pimp (unregistered)

    So, some snot-nosed little bitch who thought he knew better than everyone else even though he's still in school fucked everything up. What a surprise.

  • Jeff (unregistered) in reply to EatenByAGrue

    Nope, stupider reasons than that. I used to work at a Tim Horton's, which for anyone outside of Canada/Northern US is Coffee and Donuts. We regularly got advertising campaigns shipped to us and which had to be up in our store in certain locations for certain time periods etc.

    One time, the Tim Horton's Ad Campaign flavour of the month was how awesome working at Tim Horton's was and how you should so totally apply!!11!Eleventy-one! Part of the ad stuff that came down the chain was, of course, posters and the like saying "NOW HIRING!"

    ... Our store didn't need people. So, despite the fact that we were forced by corporate to display Now Hiring all over the building we had to tell anyone who actually tried to apply we were currently full up and the posters were dirty dirty corporate lies.

    And now you know. And Knowing is half the Battle!

  • Jeff (unregistered) in reply to EatenByAGrue
    EatenByAGrue:
    md5sum:
    I think it's the same thing as the homeless person holding a sign that states "Will work for food" right beneath the McDonald's sign that says "Now accepting applications". Yeah, I've seen that, literally. You can't tell me this guy can't find work, he just can't find work he wants to do all the time.

    And important part of this you may not be aware of: McDonald's and other fast food joints post that up on their sign frequently do so not because they have open positions but because they want to scare their current employees.

    Sorry, last post was about this. You'd think Reply button would quote, didn't see I instead had to see the Quote button...

  • minim (unregistered) in reply to md5sum
    md5sum:
    I think it's the same thing as the homeless person holding a sign that states "Will work for food" right beneath the McDonald's sign that says "Now accepting applications". Yeah, I've seen that, literally. You can't tell me this guy can't find work, he just can't find work he wants to do all the time.

    I think a lot of people missed something.

    How long would you expect to wait for a paycheck from McDonalds after being hired? (3 to 4 weeks) How long would you have to hold up a sign up before getting enough food, money, or work to feed you for the day? (3 to 4 hours)

    It is very difficult to start a job where you won't get a paid for 3 to 4 weeks when you are struggling to find enough food to get you through the day.

  • me (unregistered)

    I find it a bit of WTF that as a new employee at their first job starts to uninstall and modify configuration without knowing what tools you may or may not need to do your job.

  • Jimmy Crack Corn (unregistered) in reply to Remy Porter
    I've seen a bunch of Oracle environments for a bunch of different organizations, and not one of them has ever used LDAP.

    That's okay, I've had the pleasure to see applications which thoroughly use LDAP for configuration have all that thrown away upon integration into Oracle's corporate environment, because Oracle themselves apparently have no infrastructure nor any concept of configuring the internal corporate environment. Each user manually sets everything up, and their integration testing consists of "each group pushes out whatever updates they want and users complain if something breaks".

    All that surprises me about the situation is that Oracle isn't pretending to have some kind of managed environment internally.

  • (cs) in reply to luis.espinal
    luis.espinal:
    ... multiple users also run the Oracle client install on their machines in the exact same retarded way, pointing all of them to have their tnsnames.ora file to the exact same shared location.

    What are the chances of that happening without ever realizing they are stepping into each others' toes?

    I'm guessing client was installed exactly once, on the OS image that is deployed to workstations.

    And uninstalled exactly once, per the above...

  • (cs) in reply to me
    me:
    I find it a bit of WTF that as a new employee at their first job starts to uninstall and modify configuration without knowing what tools you may or may not need to do your job.
    If your first job requires porn diallers and spam installed on your workstation then I think you have more WTFs to share.
  • Stark (unregistered) in reply to Malenfant
    Malenfant:
    Ronald:
    silent d:
    You're a McDonald's manager and a homeless person walks in and asks for a job. Now what do you do?
    1. Ask him how much he wants to be paid. 2. Discuss the expectations of the job including cleanliness and how he plans to measure up. 3. Use my best manager experience and instincts to estimate whether he will help us earn more than the pay rate in #1. 4. Compare his probable return on investment with any other applicants. 5. Since he is homeless, he has few expenses, so is willing and able to work for less than other applicants. This provides me a higher return on investment. So I hire him. 6. Obama and the nice Democrats, over the objections of the mean Republicans, raise the minimum wage. This changes the math, and now I can no longer get a positive return on my investment. I am, therefore, left with no choice. I must terminate his employment.

    This concludes our misrepresentation of what would happen, in order to make our position seem more altruistic than it actually is

    ftfy

    If everyone had a Rolex, having a Rolex wouldn't be of any significance.

    To restate, you can't give everyone more Money. You can only give some people relatively less money. Imagine you are in a job where you make $1 more than minimum wage and then Obama raises minimum wage by $1. Now you make minimum wage. Congratulations, your money will either buy less (smaller portions for the same price), or be worth less (that Starbucks coffee just went up).

  • UnemployedDeveloper (unregistered) in reply to Jamie

    Let me share my personal experience.

    I have over 25 years experience in coding. I have always kept myself current on relevant technologies. I am self-educated and also degreed. I was once a member of several professional organizations, but can no longer afford the dues.

    Most code written by me is locked behind corporate firewalls, so I maintained a portfolio of self-made projects. These are of professional quality, but never receive consideration by recruiters or potential employers because they are "not produced at the direction of others". My contributions to FOSS projects are similarly deemed not worthy of consideration. My references have retired, been made redundant, or have otherwise become impossible to locate - and they are not on any social network I have searched - and the first thought in their head as they walked from the door was not "I better call that contractor I had last year/decade and tell him where I'll be." Letters of recommendation, once the gold standard, are now not acceptable to recruiters who believe that they are entitled to receive a personalized and immediate response from every reference they contact via phone or e-mail - even if they are the fourtieth recruiter to contact that beleaguered former manager.

    "You have a three year gap in your resume."

    "Yes, I owe that to not having been hired in this down climate."

    Lesson for all? I wish I had one for you. Don't be made redundant at 50 or you may be 53 and using your over 25 years experience to stock store shelves after your marriage ends, your house is lost, your credit is in the toilet and your Internet access is limited to leached WiFi... Now, will that be paper or plastic?

  • StychoKiller (unregistered) in reply to Someone who can't be bothered to login from work
    Someone who can't be bothered to login from work:
    md5sum:
    I think it's the same thing as the homeless person holding a sign that states "Will work for food" right beneath the McDonald's sign that says "Now accepting applications". Yeah, I've seen that, literally. You can't tell me this guy can't find work, he just can't find work he wants to do all the time.

    I don't know how it is where you are, but here it's nearly impossible to get a job without a permanent address.

    Especially since you have to prove to your future Employer that you're also an American citizen and NOT in the Country illegally! (Thank you Federal Govt.)

  • Wyrd (unregistered)

    If I had a database that was essential to production and if that database relied, for its continued function, on some goofy equiv of the /etc/hosts file...

    I WOULD BACK IT UP LIKE EVERY FIVE MINUTES.

    And it'd be sequential back ups too. Like there'd be the 20 min old version, the 15 min old version, the 10 min old version, etc.

    TRWTF is that Oracle software and that company's (lack of) backup procedures.

    Furry cows moo and decompress.

  • Old Whippersnapper (unregistered)

    Balls and shaft.

  • (cs) in reply to Outside observer
    Outside observer:
    Ronald:
    silent d:
    You're a McDonald's manager and a homeless person walks in and asks for a job. Now what do you do?
    1. Ask him how much he wants to be paid. 2. Discuss the expectations of the job including cleanliness and how he plans to measure up. 3. Use my best manager experience and instincts to estimate whether he will help us earn more than the pay rate in #1. 4. Compare his probable return on investment with any other applicants. 5. Since he is homeless, he has few expenses, so is willing and able to work for less than other applicants. This provides me a higher return on investment. So I hire him. 6. Obama and the nice Democrats, over the objections of the mean Republicans, raise the minimum wage. This changes the math, and now I can no longer get a positive return on my investment. I am, therefore, left with no choice. I must terminate his employment.

    This concludes our illustration of how "nice" people create misery such as unemployment and homelessness, while "mean" people are trying to make things better for everyone.

    Ronald:
    Malenfant:
    Ronald:
    So, instead of just saying "you're wrong", what's your version of how it would work?

    Simple, as has already been intimated, the chance of the homeless person being given the job at any rate which would allow him to find a place to live and lift himself out of poverty is zero.

    And why do you claim this is so? The McDonalds manager will act against his own self interest, and hire a more expensive person who will not produce as much return on investment? What do you imagine would motivate the manager to do that? You're not explaining your view, you're only making unsupported assertions.

    I believe the argument being made is that it sort of falls apart at step 5. If you're hiring him because his homelessness makes him cheaper, it is likely that he won't ever be paid enough to stop being homeless. If he did, you would be paying him as much as a non-homeless person, which negates your reason for hiring him. Which leads to, "I can no longer get a positive return on my investment. I am, therefore, left with no choice. I must terminate his employment."

    The true case is actually worse than this. Said manager would then go to his current staff and say "I have people willing to work for $2 an hour, unless you are willing to take a pay cut you are all laid off". And now none of the staff can afford a home unless they work all the hours god sends.

  • (cs) in reply to Someone who can't be bothered to login from work
    Someone who can't be bothered to login from work:
    Oracle's universal installer actually removing something is a novelty. You usually have to purge the registry and directories yourself, because of all the crap it leaves behind.
    But it makes sense that, when it does remove something, it'll remove something that you didn't want removed.
  • (cs) in reply to silent d
    silent d:
    md5sum:

    I think it's the same thing as the homeless person holding a sign that states "Will work for food" right beneath the McDonald's sign that says "Now accepting applications". Yeah, I've seen that, literally. You can't tell me this guy can't find work, he just can't find work he wants to do all the time.

    You're a McDonald's manager and a homeless person walks in and asks for a job. Now what do you do?

    Show them this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mcjob That'll make them change their mind...

  • usitas (unregistered) in reply to UnemployedDeveloper
    UnemployedDeveloper:
    Let me share my personal experience.

    I have over 25 years experience in coding. I have always kept myself current on relevant technologies. I am self-educated and also degreed. I was once a member of several professional organizations, but can no longer afford the dues.

    Most code written by me is locked behind corporate firewalls, so I maintained a portfolio of self-made projects. These are of professional quality, but never receive consideration by recruiters or potential employers because they are "not produced at the direction of others". My contributions to FOSS projects are similarly deemed not worthy of consideration. My references have retired, been made redundant, or have otherwise become impossible to locate - and they are not on any social network I have searched - and the first thought in their head as they walked from the door was not "I better call that contractor I had last year/decade and tell him where I'll be." Letters of recommendation, once the gold standard, are now not acceptable to recruiters who believe that they are entitled to receive a personalized and immediate response from every reference they contact via phone or e-mail - even if they are the fourtieth recruiter to contact that beleaguered former manager.

    "You have a three year gap in your resume."

    "Yes, I owe that to not having been hired in this down climate."

    Lesson for all? I wish I had one for you. Don't be made redundant at 50 or you may be 53 and using your over 25 years experience to stock store shelves after your marriage ends, your house is lost, your credit is in the toilet and your Internet access is limited to leached WiFi... Now, will that be paper or plastic?

    I've got a job for you. I just need three references.

  • Osama (unregistered)

    I expected CORPBSMT to be Lennart's PC.

  • (cs) in reply to NorgTheFat
    NorgTheFat:
    ... they decided the best way was to just have the file shared out to everyone from the same location. Wow talk about slow performance issues!

    Microsoft Visual Source Safe works of this fine, robust principal.

    Hey, twenty million users can't be wrong!

  • Ike (unregistered) in reply to re:me
    re:me:
    I think it's about keeping people available to replace the dozens that walk out or that the manager has to fire every month. Fast food places have ridiculous turnover.
    I don't know about ridiculous, but I know that the apple turnovers are so hot they'll burn the roof of your mouth!
  • junkpile (unregistered) in reply to Ronald
    Ronald:
    Malenfant:
    Ronald:
    So, instead of just saying "you're wrong", what's your version of how it would work?

    Simple, as has already been intimated, the chance of the homeless person being given the job at any rate which would allow him to find a place to live and lift himself out of poverty is zero.

    And why do you claim this is so? The McDonalds manager will act against his own self interest, and hire a more expensive person who will not produce as much return on investment? What do you imagine would motivate the manager to do that? You're not explaining your view, you're only making unsupported assertions.

    Ah yes, unsupported assertions indeed... Then there are those of us who live in the real world where personal impressions and corporate/personal politics determine "best fit" for a job instead of just a simple cost/benefit analysis.

  • Cujo (unregistered) in reply to junkpile

    Maybe I'm missing something but a file like this would be versioned after each edit. So you'd see something like this:

    tnsnames.ora tnsnames.ora.20100428 tnsnames.ora.20090221 etc.

    Normally I put my initials there as well so someone can ask me. I'd find it hard to believe the installer would remove all files beginning with tnsnames* so not versioning it is another WTF.

  • aldfjasldf (unregistered)

    Each second that ticked by was roughly two and a half hours of lost productivity, company-wide.

    2.5 hours = 9000 seconds

    So if the statment in the story is true, then it would mean there is about 9000 employees using using this one file all at the same time.

  • (cs) in reply to DB
    DB:
    I don't see what was Oracle's fault.

    Using tnsnamens.ora is Oracle's fault. And that is a great WTF on itself.

  • (cs) in reply to Stark
    Stark:
    Malenfant:
    Ronald:
    silent d:
    You're a McDonald's manager and a homeless person walks in and asks for a job. Now what do you do?
    1. Ask him how much he wants to be paid. 2. Discuss the expectations of the job including cleanliness and how he plans to measure up. 3. Use my best manager experience and instincts to estimate whether he will help us earn more than the pay rate in #1. 4. Compare his probable return on investment with any other applicants. 5. Since he is homeless, he has few expenses, so is willing and able to work for less than other applicants. This provides me a higher return on investment. So I hire him. 6. Obama and the nice Democrats, over the objections of the mean Republicans, raise the minimum wage. This changes the math, and now I can no longer get a positive return on my investment. I am, therefore, left with no choice. I must terminate his employment.

    This concludes our misrepresentation of what would happen, in order to make our position seem more altruistic than it actually is

    ftfy

    If everyone had a Rolex, having a Rolex wouldn't be of any significance.

    To restate, you can't give everyone more Money. You can only give some people relatively less money. Imagine you are in a job where you make $1 more than minimum wage and then Obama raises minimum wage by $1. Now you make minimum wage. Congratulations, your money will either buy less (smaller portions for the same price), or be worth less (that Starbucks coffee just went up).

    Or you go make your money go just as far by going to a proper coffee shop that isn't stupidly overpriced and the coffee actually tastes nice, and leave Starbucks to all those overpaid idiots who throw money away on something because it's trendy.

  • Thg (unregistered) in reply to Jamie
    Jamie:
    md5sum:
    I'm still trying to figure out this whole "dry market" thing. People keep complaining that they can't find jobs, but I keep having people call me wanting me to interview for some developer position somewhere. Last 6 weeks I've had 3 calls. Granted I would have to relocate, but it wouldn't be a problem to find a new job. A friend of mine was laid off last year and found a new company in about 3 weeks. The longest I personally have ever been out of work was 5 weeks, and that was because I was unwilling to relocate at the time.

    I think it's the same thing as the homeless person holding a sign that states "Will work for food" right beneath the McDonald's sign that says "Now accepting applications". Yeah, I've seen that, literally. You can't tell me this guy can't find work, he just can't find work he wants to do all the time.

    Whilst I agree with you to an extent I think it's important to note that there is a difference between finding jobs and actually being good enough for it.

    I have friends who can't find work, not because they're not receiving phonecalls for interviews but simply because they're not good enough (a bit harsh, yes, but true)

    Who needs a job when there's 99-weeks of unemployment available?

  • Big James (unregistered) in reply to Iie

    Work for a very large entertainment company in the south. We have hundreds of oracle database, and would never, ever, ever use a TNSNAMES file for anything but a back up. Not using OID or LDAP, well, you get out of software what you put into it. this is not a WTF, this is a DUH...

  • Thg (unregistered) in reply to JoeB
    JoeB:
    Sorry, but I fail to see where Oracle failed.

    imho, the big failures were:

    1 - the network administration that shouldn't have allowed write permissions for EVERYONE on EVERYONE's tnsnames.ora. 2 - Lennart's by failing to tell his manager/wtv about that flaw.

    Will never understand so much hatred about Oracle...

    Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Larry Ellison! (Why the pseudonym, "JoeB"? ;-)

    ... ahh! ... very clever: "JoeB" ≈ "Job" Feeling Persecuted?

  • Quirkafleeg (unregistered) in reply to usitas
    usitas:
    I've got a job for you. I just need three references.
    int &x = a, &y = b, &z = c;
  • Thg (unregistered) in reply to Ken
    Ken:
    Ronald:
    Malenfant:
    Ronald:
    So, instead of just saying "you're wrong", what's your version of how it would work?

    Simple, as has already been intimated, the chance of the homeless person being given the job at any rate which would allow him to find a place to live and lift himself out of poverty is zero.

    And why do you claim this is so? The McDonalds manager will act against his own self interest, and hire a more expensive person who will not produce as much return on investment? What do you imagine would motivate the manager to do that? You're not explaining your view, you're only making unsupported assertions.

    As a former fast food hiring manager, first impressions are everything. If you put in an application and smell bad or cause people to get out of line because they lose their appetite smelling you I'm not even going to hold on to your application. Even if he was willing to work for $2 an hour if he can't present himself in a way that brings customers in instead of driving them away I cannot hire him.

    It sucks I know. I have actually had to turn someone away because they were not well kept enough to serve food. And I have had to fire someone who could not keep themselves clean to a healthy standard. Food service is not the place for someone without means to take care of themselves. There are laws about cleanliness for people who handle food. Overnight stocking might be a better place to start for that.

    TRWTF is that you think all homeless people are bums.

  • Thg (unregistered) in reply to UnemployedDeveloper
    UnemployedDeveloper:
    Let me share my personal experience. [ ... snip ... ]

    Lesson for all? I wish I had one for you. Don't be made redundant at 50 or you may be 53 and using your over 25 years experience to stock store shelves after your marriage ends, your house is lost, your credit is in the toilet and your Internet access is limited to leached WiFi... Now, will that be paper or plastic?

    (see, jackasses?: ... not a bum )

    UD:

    Get a face-to-face interview at a Temp Agency that places office jobs, and tell them that your being overqualified is

    • good for them
    • good for the company they'll place you at

    Shop at Vietnamese grocery stores: you'll save trillions, and eat like a king.

    Work on not being bitter.

    You're better off without her. (...if that was her reaction to all this)

  • Warpedcow (unregistered) in reply to Ronald
    Ronald:
    silent d:
    You're a McDonald's manager and a homeless person walks in and asks for a job. Now what do you do?
    1. Ask him how much he wants to be paid. 2. Discuss the expectations of the job including cleanliness and how he plans to measure up. 3. Use my best manager experience and instincts to estimate whether he will help us earn more than the pay rate in #1. 4. Compare his probable return on investment with any other applicants. 5. Since he is homeless, he has few expenses, so is willing and able to work for less than other applicants. This provides me a higher return on investment. So I hire him. 6. Obama and the nice Democrats, over the objections of the mean Republicans, raise the minimum wage. This changes the math, and now I can no longer get a positive return on my investment. I am, therefore, left with no choice. I must terminate his employment.

    This concludes our illustration of how "nice" people create misery such as unemployment and homelessness, while "mean" people are trying to make things better for everyone.

    My favorite post ever.

  • UnemployedDeveloper (unregistered) in reply to usitas
    I've got a job for you. I just need three references.

    Yup, you have fully gotten the point.

  • pecus bill (unregistered) in reply to re:me
    re:me:
    silent d:
    md5sum:

    I think it's the same thing as the homeless person holding a sign that states "Will work for food" right beneath the McDonald's sign that says "Now accepting applications". Yeah, I've seen that, literally. You can't tell me this guy can't find work, he just can't find work he wants to do all the time.

    You're a McDonald's manager and a homeless person walks in and asks for a job. Now what do you do?

    Shoot the hostage?

    Nononono. Leave the Apple Store.

Leave a comment on “What's Gone and What's Past Help”

Log In or post as a guest

Replying to comment #:

Log Out

« Return to Article