• (disco) in reply to abarker
    Not if all you're interested in is the numbers.

    Then don't say stuff like how one is irrelevant to the other. Just report the numbers.

  • (disco)
    1. goddamnit i havent even typed anything and it changed my number to a fucking 1. screw it, dischorse is subtly hinting that i shouldnt bother.
  • (disco) in reply to blakeyrat

    I believe if you check your sources you will find that it was in fact common knowledge, even in Europe. You're thinking of monks and nobles, whose knowledge was hardly common.

  • (disco) in reply to Buddy

    Next you'll be claiming the common man in the middle ages couldn't read and write.

  • (disco) in reply to PleegWat

    What are you trying to say?

  • (disco) in reply to Gal_Spunes
    Why not have a sales tax (the 'Fair Tax' proposal) that would hamper their ability to levy greater taxes on certain groups? Are we supposed to carry 'tax identification cards' with us so we can be taxed more at point-of-sale?

    Sales taxes can be abused as well, by setting different levels of sales taxes on different categories of products. This is because the proportion of income of different groups that are spent on each category of products and services varies a lot. For example, the poor spend a much higher fraction of their income on food, and the pious tend to spend much more on religious iconography than average.

    The real solution is to actively try to root out the corrupt. If we're talking about corrupt individuals, that means prosecutions. If we're talking about a corrupt system, that means administrative reform. (Unfortunately, government need tax income to operate at all so you can't really just dissolve the agency without causing more problems than you solve.)

  • (disco) in reply to dkf

    @dkf is talking about (if I may presume) VAT or Value Added Tax.

    The following examples are purely intended for illustrative purposes and are not to be considered exact instances:

    1. Food has 0% VAT unless it has, in some way, had "value" "added" to it like warming it up (pasties) or otherwise preparing it (sandwiches, coffee to go etc.).
    2. A packet of biscuits is VAT free, but Chocolate biscuits are "luxury" items and therefore subject to VAT
    3. Jaffa Cakes are subject to VAT - A cause of much debate and anger.
    4. Books and children's clothes (where children clothes are defined as being upvto a certain physical size) are VAT free or at a lower rate - there are many rates of VAT.
    5. Certain female sanitary products attract the full rate of 20% (or they did, or there is some discussion about reducing it - I can't keep track of every thing). Again this is a "thing" that causes much discussion.

    So, yeah. A Point Of Sale Tax (revenue source) that can be (is) abused.

    No, don't get me started on VAT, and if you even think about "duty".....I shall scream.

  • (disco) in reply to Buddy

    If you're going that route, 99% of what we know about the earth is not common knowledge NOW.

  • (disco) in reply to loose
    Jaffa Cakes are subject to VAT - A cause of much debate and anger.

    In re-reading this, I realise that I may have introduced some ambiguity here. I have no idea if jaffa cakes have been globalised, but they are biscuit like in appearance with some orange based jelly on top further covered by a layer of chocolate. See image:

    Sidebar :wtf: what sort of reasoning led to this (unusual choice of size limit): Sorry, the file you are trying to upload is too big (maximum size is 3072kb) [image]

    HMRC (Her Majesties Revenue and Customs - the piratesgoverment body responsible for the collection of taxes). Have decided that a jaffa cake is a chocolate biscuit and thus subject to VAT and NOT a cake as the manufactures intend. The base of the jaffa cake is more cake like than biscuit like.

    This case hinged on the disparity between the treatment of cakes and luxury biscuits under VAT rules; while cakes are exempt from the tax, luxury biscuits are subject to VAT at the standard rate. HMRC argued that Jaffa Cakes were chocolate-covered biscuits, not cakes.

    A "generic" internet quote.

  • (disco) in reply to loose

    Why are cakes tax-free and not a luxury food? What if they have chocolate on them? What the fuck is wrong with British people?

  • (disco) in reply to blakeyrat
    Why are cakes tax-free and not a luxury food?

    Fuck knows. And tax lawyers.

  • (disco) in reply to loose

    We have an almost identical treat over here (US) called Pims



  • (disco) in reply to dkf

    Sure, governments can manipulate taxes across different products (as they do now). I only mentioned the "Fair Tax", not as an endorsement, but an example of a single rate consumption tax that would not be so easily manipulated. Of course, it has this concept of a 'prebate' which would provide the gubmint with an opportunity for manipulation.

    Rooting out corruption sounds fine, but beware of pious Paladin-like crusaders that loudly champion such causes. ;) Humans are fallible, and corruption is just a symptom of our condition. I prefer to keep a skeptics eye out to clearly see it as it arises. Sunshine etc.

    There's a lot of chest beating about "abolish the IRS!", which is daft, but understandably symbolic - it is a reviled agency. However, any gubmint revenue generation will require some form of agency to administer...even if we made funding the gubmint entirely voluntary.

    No easy answers, I guess. As always.

  • (disco) in reply to Gal_Spunes

    Awww, you get more jelly :(

  • (disco) in reply to darkmatter

    I'm not rereading this thread to find out, but it seems likely that that's why this pedantry about what is or isn't common knowledge even came up in the first place.

  • (disco) in reply to loose
    Sorry, the file you are trying to upload is too big (maximum size is 3072kb)

    Yeah, 3072000 bits is a strange limit. One would expect they meant 3MB, or 3MiB.

  • (disco) in reply to PleegWat

    h,,,, yeah.

    and it's not a conversion error between MiB and KB (that would get you 3146 KB)

  • (disco) in reply to accalia

    It's probably 3 mebibytes mislabeled as kilobits.

  • (disco) in reply to PleegWat

    no, i did the math there. that would be 3146KB

    i think it's 3 maybebytes

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