• (disco) in reply to RaceProUK
    RaceProUK:
    diabolical screeching
    RaceProUK:
    decided to force it in anyway?

    :giggity:

  • (disco) in reply to Tsaukpaetra
    Tsaukpaetra:
    Flipped me upside down for a minute until I realized you must therefore sit on the right side the the vehicle during operation.

    Yep. This was pretty much my first car: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Laser#/media/File:1982_Ford_Laser_(KA)Ghia_5-door_hatchback(22643862523).jpg but mine was green and didn't have roof racks.

    ChrisH:
    He then left his foot on the clutch pedal for the entire two minutes it took the lights to change.

    This is how I learned it in driving school. Apparently that's better for the car than students constantly forgetting to push the pedal again before getting in gear.

    I think I was taught this as well, but leave the stick in neutral, push into gear immediately as the light goes green. It's been many years since I've driven a manual vehicle. I hired a small truck to move house in 2008 and had already been driving an automatic for a year at that point. I still occasionally have the urge to drop into second going around corners though. :)

    My wife has the "automatic only" restriction on her licence so she has only driven a manual a few times as a "Learner".

  • (disco) in reply to Quite
    Quite:
    you see, we are told that no testing had been done on this new wiring configuration. That is, first and foremost, the reason for the suboptimal experiences of the participants.

    Shouldn't there have been some attempt at synchronisation between the wiring? I mean, some electronics that would speed up/slow down the inverter slightly so that when it switched back to "mains" it would not have a nasty jolt? Of course that would be totally less of an impact than reversing direction but it could still cause damage. If there was something like that it would immediately flag that it is abc instead of acb, for example.

  • (disco) in reply to immibis_
    immibis_:
    Steve_The_Cynic:
    instead of having live and neutral of 110V, you have two lives of 220V, and you use the difference between them to power your 110V equipment. Your oven draws more power than almost anything else in your house, so to reduce the current flowing through it, it is normally powered using one of the 220V lives and the 220V neutral.),
    Pretty sure you've got that backwards.
    (Searches) You're right. It's been a while (couple of decades...) since I heard a proper explanation of it. Bah.
  • (disco)
    Mike,” Reginald said, shaking his head. “I know you computer guys think you know everything, but you’re not an electrician. This is a factory, Mike, and you’ve got to learn a little about what it’s like to work for a living.

    What I've come to learn is that condescension leads to trouble.

    Quite:
    TRWTF, of course, is Mike not resigning on the spot.

    We appear to be on the same frequency.

  • (disco) in reply to Quite

    looks like Reginald learned what it was like to do without computers for a few days. TRWTF is that there are so many Reginalds out there and so few Mikes.

  • (disco) in reply to Steve_The_Cynic

    Leading to questions like What is the air speed velocity of a fully laden RA80 platter set thrown from its spindle?

    http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/physical-object/digital_equipment_corporation_dec/102626588.3.lg.jpg

  • (disco) in reply to RFoxmich
    RFoxmich:
    What is the air speed velocity of a fully laden RA80 platter set thrown from its spindle?
    African or European?
  • (disco) in reply to Aatch
    Aatch:
    Also, I'm assuming that when it comes to the operation of a mainframe system like this one, Mike probably does know more about it's electrical requirements than an electrician.
    If *Mike* thinks it's a mainframe, then it's highly likely he doesn't know anything at all about it.

    The article is quite clear that the computers are VAXes, which are minicomputers, not mainframes.

  • (disco) in reply to Matt_Westwood
    Matt_Westwood:
    I rather think you meant to say "tried to convince him", or "failed to convince him".

    No, I did convince him. He did stop shifting from 5th to 1st after disengaging the clutch and rolling to a stop. I'm quite convinced that he believes I offered him valuable advice that he has now taken.

  • (disco) in reply to ChrisH
    ChrisH:
    flabdablet:
    He then left his foot on the clutch pedal for the entire two minutes it took the lights to change.
    This is how I learned it in driving school. Apparently that's better for the car than students constantly forgetting to push the pedal again before getting in gear.

    There is absolutely no point in putting a hundred shifts' worth of wear on the clutch lift bearing instead of letting the engine idle with the gearbox in neutral.

    Any driver who constantly forgets to declutch before trying to put the car in gear is also :doing_it_wrong:.

  • (disco) in reply to Zemm
    Zemm:
    I think I was taught this as well, but leave the stick in neutral, push into gear immediately as the light goes green.

    If the car is stationary and the clutch pedal is pressed in, then the engine is disconnected from the gearbox and it doesn't matter in the slightest whether the stick is in neutral or not.

    Correct procedure is to idle in neutral until just before the light turns green (use experience and the behavior of the cross street's lights to judge this), then declutch and select first gear, then execute a smooth takeoff once the light changes.

  • (disco) in reply to flabdablet
    flabdablet:
    execute a smooth takeoff once the light changes.

    [Insert Darwin Awards JATO-powered car story here.]

  • (disco) in reply to HardwareGeek

    Proud graduate of the Kerbal Driving School https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2CS-wtmeWk

  • (disco) in reply to Steve_The_Cynic

    At that time it was not so clear where the boundary was. A mini-computer was a mini-computer only because the vendor called it one.

    Sample Vax780: http://archive.computerhistory.org/projects/Virtual_Visible_Storage_Photos/physical_objects/minicomputers/no%20number%20VAX%2011-780_src.jpg

    We had a 780 and a few 750s (unmistakably minicomputers) the followed our Sigma-7

    https://www.uwyo.edu/infotech/aboutit/history/images/sigma7.gif

    which by the way SDS (later Xerox) also called a mini-computer.

  • (disco) in reply to Zemm
    Zemm:
    leave the stick in neutral, push into gear immediately as the light goes green.

    My current tactic. Easier on the feet as well. This preparation also allows my advantage of not having the delay of lifting the foot off the brake and then applying the accelerator. I can just be ready to accelerate half a second before the light goes green and then be the first off the line nearly every time (except others who have more powerful cars).

  • (disco) in reply to RaceProUK
    RaceProUK:
    Where do you think I learned about it?

    Well I was hoping from personal experience. ;-)

    RaceProUK:
    I think first generally is synchromesh.

    I think you're right.

  • (disco) in reply to Steve_The_Cynic
    Steve_The_Cynic:
    If Mike thinks it's a mainframe, then it's highly likely he doesn't know anything at all about it.

    The article is quite clear that the computers are VAXes, which are minicomputers, not mainframes.

    OH SNAP!

    Someone got pedantic'd!!!

  • (disco) in reply to flabdablet

    I've always idled with the clutch down, but I may want to switch to doing it in neutral at least when I'm not at the front of the line - my new car has an automatic engine stop/start system, so the engine stops when it's in neutral with the clutch up.

    If I have to brake while idling on an incline, I use the handbrake.

  • (disco) in reply to na5ch
    na5ch:
    The Mythbusters tested this and Tory couldn't get the manual transmission into reverse while moving forward.
    I can confirm this; a friend tried it on a beetle that was about to go to the press anyway after the frame was badly bent in an accident. The way he finally killed the gear box was to put it in reverse on a steep hill, roll it down with the clutch open and then let go of the pedal.
  • (disco) in reply to Steve_The_Cynic
    Steve_The_Cynic:
    (Searches) You're right. It's been a while (couple of decades...) since I heard a proper explanation of it. Bah.
    I'm not sure how they do it in a 115V system (it's been 115 for a 20 or so years now, isn't it?) but in the Philippines they get 230 by running two 115V lives in reverse phase. That way, you have 100% chance of touching the live wire if you happen to touch one instead of just 50% but the shock is less than half as bad.

    The article's explanation of 3-phase power is one of the stranger ones I've heard. Creating '“dead” moments in the cycle, where no work is being done' is something that hardly noticeable in anything below several 100 kW. 3-phase is more economical because it needs less copper for a given power requirement, and it's also practical in high-voltage transmission lines because you can divide the necessary wire cross section in 3 in such a way that the electric field of all of them all but cancels out. It doesn't get to zero because of the distance between the wires but it's a significant advantage. If you need 3000/3600 rpm, motors are also simpler and more robust designs in 3-phase.

  • (disco) in reply to LaoC
    LaoC:
    The way he finally killed the gear box was to put it in reverse on a steep hill, roll it down with the clutch open and then let go of the pedal.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8gvgISVHak

  • (disco) in reply to PleegWat
    PleegWat:
    If I have to brake while idling on an incline

    There are inclines in the Netherlands? :fire:

  • (disco) in reply to PWolff
    PWolff:
    There are inclines in the Netherlands?

    Yes, on the bridges over the canals.

  • (disco) in reply to dkf
    dkf:
    Yes, on the bridges over the canals.

    Got it in one!

  • (disco)

    One behind-the-scenes factor in all this: The electricians were probably unionized, and Mike probably wasn't. That means that to protect their own they were likely to close ranks and screw over Mike. Indeed, it's quite possible that Reginald or somebody else in management knew that that was going on, but decided to fire Mike rather than Barry because to fire Barry would risk some sort of union action on the part of the IBEW, and to fire nobody would risk the wrath of upper management.

    The hint about "you’ve got to learn a little about what it’s like to work for a living" also strongly suggests that this was a unionized-blue-collar white-collar issue.

    And I'm normally a pro-union guy: And of course, if Mike had a union too, it might have turned out differently.

  • (disco) in reply to geoff
    geoff:
    Right, its not like Barry said, "Mike shut up about the wiring job the electricians no better than you, I don't want here it." He said, come to me with your concerns. Mike decided basically to just ignore the electricians completely and let a disaster happen. He deserved to be fired.

    It wasn't Mike's job to give them an accurate, exhaustive list of every possible thing that could go wrong if the electricians somehow fucked it up. So no, he did not deserve to be fired.

    tenshino:
    I remember learning to drive a stick.

    "You're not going to be able to shift down to 2nd ye... oh.... ok."

    Shifting down to 2nd is fun for those times when you want to very rapidly decelerate to 20 MPH without those pesky brake lights warning the person behind you...

    PleegWat:
    I've always idled with the clutch down

    It's really bad for the clutch - it puts a ton of unnecessary wear on the bearings. Just press it briefly to shift into neutral, then release it until you're ready to shift back into first.

    flabdablet:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8gvgISVHak

    That engine can't possibly be running... are they rolling the car with it in gear?

  • (disco) in reply to anotherusername
    anotherusername:
    That engine can't possibly be running... are they rolling the car with it in gear?

    Maybe they're driving it off the starter motor? You can certainly hear revving sounds, so who knows what's going on.

  • (disco) in reply to anotherusername

    You can clearly see a tow cable.

    Not sure what's going on with the engine noise, it's either dubbed in later or the noise from the towing truck? (Which looks like it's just a pickup.)

  • (disco) in reply to blakeyrat
    blakeyrat:
    Not sure what's going on with the engine noise

    Might be just all that moving metal vibrating because the engine isn't in one piece or lubricated. Mind you, it's a Rover so it's an utter pile of :shit:; that noise could just be what it sounds like anyway.

    (I remember for decades how you used to have to try to avoid getting cars that were fabricated on a Friday, as the build quality always dropped a lot on the last day of the working week. This was true of all the big UK manufacturers. Then the Japanese moved in, and never allowed that sort of ridiculous stuff in their plants…)

  • (disco) in reply to FrostCat
    FrostCat:
    who knows what's going on

    I already knew your reading comprehension was terrible, but I think this is the first time I've ever encountered somebody with terrible video comprehension.

  • (disco) in reply to flabdablet
    flabdablet:
    I already knew your reading comprehension was terrible, but I think this is the first time I've ever encountered somebody with terrible video comprehension.

    Do explain, then, how the engine sounds like it's being run without spark plugs.

  • (disco) in reply to FrostCat
    FrostCat:
    Do explain, then, how the engine sounds like it's being run without spark plugs.

    Seriously? What part of

    Colin Furze:
    Right. Dunno about you; I've always wondered what an engine looks like when it's running, so we've lost the head on this wonderful Rover, I'm going to tow it up the road, whack it in gear, and film it.

    is too hard for you?

    Or are you truly too mechanically challenged to understand that when a manual-gearbox car is in gear, there's a deterministic relationship between the rotation of the road wheels and the movement of the pistons in the engine?

    Or if none of that is the source of your confusion: what kind of noise did you expect from four fully exposed pistons operating at (allegedly, per video title) 167Hz?

    Kids these days.

  • (disco) in reply to flabdablet
    flabdablet:
    four fully exposed unlubricated pistons operating at (allegedly, per video title) 167Hz?

    One of the things that struck me in the video is that, as they're towing it down the road with the engine spinning, the oil pump is spewing whatever is left in the crankcase all over the road. There is clearly less of during the second, higher speed run, resulting in the engine seizing up at the end.

  • (disco) in reply to HardwareGeek
    HardwareGeek:
    the oil pump is spewing whatever is left in the crankcase all over the road

    And all over Colin!

    Colin Furze:
    I got ■■■■'n covered in it!
    HardwareGeek:
    resulting in the engine seizing up at the end
    Colin's mate:
    Oh dear. Hope it's not broken!

    That bit looks a bit...

    Ow.

  • (disco) in reply to flabdablet
    flabdablet:
    Or are you truly too mechanically challenged to understand that when a manual-gearbox car is in gear,

    No, Corporal Crazypants, I don't drive manual, as I've said many times here, because it's not a valuable skill to me in the exclusively-city driving I do. so I didn't know that. But I guess a stalker like you who can't be bothered to read what others have written.

  • (disco) in reply to flabdablet
    flabdablet:
    He then left his foot on the clutch pedal for the entire two minutes it took the lights to change.

    Nothing wrong with this. It wears the thrust bearing a little more but that's not really a problem given the likelihood that something else will fail first.

    The advantage is that when you see somebody behind approaching quickly and unable to stop, you're already in gear ready to get out of the way.

    Motorcycle training has the rider put the left foot on the ground when stopping. The left foot is the gear-changing foot. You sit at a stop in gear all the time. In fact, you should always be in an appropriate gear for a "get the fuck outta here" maneuver, which means you should be down-shifting as appropriate the whole time you're slowing down.

  • (disco) in reply to flabdablet
    flabdablet:
    There is absolutely no point in putting a hundred shifts' worth of wear on the clutch lift bearing instead of letting the engine idle with the gearbox in neutral.

    ... except the aforementioned "get the fuck outta here" maneuver.

    flabdablet:
    Any driver who constantly forgets to declutch before trying to put the car in gear is also :doing_it_wrong:.

    Or an automatic driver, which is also :doing_it_wrong:

  • (disco) in reply to FrostCat
    FrostCat:
    No, Corporal Crazypants, I don't drive manual, as I've said many times here, because it's not a valuable skill to me in the exclusively-city driving I do. so I didn't know that. But I guess a stalker like you who can't be bothered to read what others have written.

    Exposing your ignorance again? You should just pipe down when people are discussing anything mechanical.

  • (disco) in reply to another_sam
    another_sam:
    Exposing your ignorance again? You should just pipe down when people are discussing anything mechanical.

    Another stalker heard from!

  • (disco) in reply to FrostCat
    FrostCat:
    Another stalker heard from!

    http://i.imgur.com/H3GyU.jpg

  • (disco) in reply to another_sam

    No, that'd be cool.

  • (disco) in reply to another_sam
    another_sam:
    The advantage is that when you see somebody behind approaching quickly and unable to stop, you're already in gear ready to get out of the way.

    That only applies when you're at the front of the queue and it's the vehicle immediately approaching from behind that is unable to stop. Otherwise, you either won't see them or you won't be able to get out of the way. And having been actually in this situation (just ended up with a light bump, absorbed by the tow bar, but the vehicles behind were wrecked) there's really nothing you can do; the reasons for not going tend to still be there even if there's trouble from behind.

    Fortunately, modern cars are way more survivable for their occupants in a crash of this sort than any motorcycle ever could be.

  • (disco) in reply to another_sam
    another_sam:
    Motorcycle training has the rider put the left foot on the ground when stopping. The left foot is the gear-changing foot. You sit at a stop in gear all the time. In fact, you should always be in an appropriate gear for a "get the fuck outta here" maneuver
    One might argue that you need the right foot a lot less for such a maneuvre.
  • (disco) in reply to dkf
    dkf:
    That only applies when you're at the front of the queue

    Or when you've planned ahead and left yourself an emergency escape route.

    dkf:
    and it's the vehicle immediately approaching from behind that is unable to stop.

    Depending on the bike, motorcyclists often sit higher than most cars, giving better visibility. It's true that having a vehicle behind does give a little inertial protection so it's less critical.

    My vehicle is also higher than most cars so I can still see behind them.

    dkf:
    Fortunately, modern cars are way more survivable for their occupants in a crash of this sort than any motorcycle ever could be.

    Very very true. A rider who doesn't remain alert and aware of his surroundings is a dead rider.

  • (disco) in reply to ChrisH
    ChrisH:
    One might argue that you need the right foot a lot less for such a maneuvre.

    One might be correct on that point, but one might not consider that the right foot is required on the rear brake to avoid inadvertently performing the maneuvre sooner than intended. Also, using the rear brake while accelerating is a common technique for smoothly modulating acceleration on a motorcycle, or to control wheelspin or wheelies.

  • (disco) in reply to another_sam
    another_sam:
    Or when you've planned ahead and left yourself an emergency escape route.
    Assuming an escape route is a possibility, which on UK roads at least, often isn't.
  • (disco) in reply to RaceProUK
    RaceProUK:
    Assuming an escape route is a possibility, which on UK roads at least, often isn't.

    There's usually somewhere to go, even if it's not ideal or not very far. Riding between the cars in front even if you don't properly fit is better than being squished into the boot of the car in front. Or mount a kerb or traffic island, or onto the opposite side of the road if you're really desparate. Just about anything that removes you from the path of the car about to hit you or puts something between it and you or even just increases the distance, however small, is going to be helpful.

  • (disco) in reply to another_sam

    I don't think you realise just how cramped some of our roads are

  • (disco) in reply to RaceProUK

    Cramped, you say? [image]

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