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Admin
Same goes for me :-)
Schema is a bit weird, particularly having that string describing who the event is for is weird, but what really made my "wtf"-circuits blink red is the statement that ... "sql queries built at client side by javascript". Never trust the client. Well, probably it works out in a in-house, small-office environment.
I was once making an app where the client actually _could_ send arbritrary SQL to the database - but then again, there were no business logics in that app, only a database, every app-user was also registered as a database user, so I actually had the database control the ACL.
Another thing that really bugs me is - presenting a database schema as an image? wtf? Particularly, at the beginning of my current project, there were some tables that were imported more or less directly from the precursor application we are replacing. We had a skilled windows sysadmin running the old system, and my boss called him up to get the tables from the old application - and I got them - as image files in a mail file. I mean - WTF? That's just plain evil, isn't it? Does MS-SQL take backups in the same format?
Admin
I think that the wtf here is that they were able to mess up the database that has a perfectly normal table design with wrong data...
Admin
Oddly enough, NTFS actually DOES have symbolic links, but for some reason MS doesn't ship the app to create them. You can get one from sysinternals tho.
Not sure why MS included the functionality but excluded the tools, but it isn't the first time MS has done that.
Admin
Total mass of pile/average mass of sand grain
Now, I'll grant you that you have to recalibrate with elevation, but its surprisingly reliable!
Admin
Wow does this forum software ever hate me. Maybe its just IE 7...
Admin
There is not IE7 yet. Whachoo talking boot? The Javascript "IE7" CSS enhancement?
Admin
Also, Hungarian notation on column names is just... weird.
Admin
It also supports substituted drives, another way of organising data.
Most systems don't actually have the junction program on them, but you can get one that does the same thing from www.sysinternals.com.
Admin
Yes, there is. It's in beta.
LOL
Admin
Which cave are you living in?
Admin
My wife has a girlfriend, and neither of them use Linux. A trend methinks.
Admin
Admin
"What is this irony you did not speak of?"
dZ.
Admin
After reading the article posted, explaining the great way we can all do ln -s in windows..
To even think this comes near the ease and robust unix fs utils is a bit far fetched...
if you mean typing fstuil hardlink create, etc, every time, for a hardlink is in some way as flexible as ln -s your very much deluded.
If you read that article, the junctions NTFS feature is " undocumented ", programming it has been done by a handful of people... there is pratically no use of this feature..
I really never seen anywhere using these feature, yet you will not get a linux distribution running with out links...You cannot compare some programmers good idea at microsoft, with a venerable feature of the worlds oldest operating system.
NTFS has it spec changed every service pack, making deciphering it super complex... ; nobody can use it on anything apart from read access..
This is irrelevant anyway, you wont even see files in longhorn! Get used to searching, Access denied - This file is not signed, and This file was not brought at 3x its markup price from a microsoft partner.....
Admin
I had trouble following your post, so I'm gonna take a stab somewhere...
All this tells us is that Linux needs this functionality, while Windows doesn't. Either way the functionality is there.
Ok, enough with the ignorant MS-hate, I reckon. It's getting boring and it really isn't cool anymore.
Admin
<FONT face=Arial>PLEASE refrain from using that Linux-lover's pen name on this glorious website. /. is for geeks. TDWTF is for everyone else.</FONT>
<FONT face=Arial>Pwnt. Please drive through.</FONT>
Admin
No. The functionality is not there. Junctions are not as functional as generic symbolic links. Read the thread.
Admin
<FONT face="Courier New" size=2>what are you talking about? /. is limbo for script kiddies. "geek" is a wonderful label. treat it with reverence.</FONT>
Admin
Er, you spend time on beginner's forums but say things like "sounds like pilot error" - geez, hardly sounds like you're on those forums to give friendly or helpful advice [:S]
Admin
The database system is probably SQL Server which does not have a date data type. It does have a datetime but if you don't need the level of precision it offers you can halve the bytes used with the smalldatetime type.
Not everything that people don't understand is a WTF.
Admin
[asscover]
I was going to ask that *of course*, ^o, but just to be sure IE7 wasn't already in beta I went to microsoft.com. No mention of such a thing on the front page, on the product pages or in downloads. Assuming they'd put up a download like that in clear view, I searched no further.
[/asscover]
But I just searched the site, and lo, IE7 with tabs, some CSS enhancements and PNG support! I cheer a mild Yay, and will reserve further yay-ing for when I find out the extent and quality of the enhancements.
To answer your question:
The cave I apparently just evolved out of.
Admin
Hungarian notation on anything is just wierd.
Admin
Having seen screens of IE7, it reminds me of Firefox.. a lot. I'd imagine that when it ships, it'll be a poorly implemented version of that, with all the current IE bugs and security holes to boot.
Admin
You are a 'programmer' who does not know or who has forgotten about database normalization?
You do not have to be a DBA to know that.
Don't tell me that you have forgotten about SQL or Object-Oriented Programming?
Those are used in almost any project of size at some point.
If somebody asked about 'AJAX' or 'SOA' that would have been fine.
My point is, as a programmer you must know (how to use) the basics of software engineering (from declaring a variable to implementing a database).
P.S. I do not provide tutoring.
Admin
Well, I really did not read the first line - sorry. So please ignore my original post :)
Admin
Oh, does all programming have to involve a database then? Or have you redefined anything that doesn't use a database as not being programming?
Admin
Oh, does all programming have to involve a database then? Or have you redefined anything that doesn't use a database as not being programming?
Admin
(One day I'll work out how to get quoting to work with Opera. But obviously not today. Sigh.)
Admin
Wait, wait! I wanna play too!!!
Didn't you read the first line?? It says its a Classic WTF!
There.
dZ.
Admin
Phred,
Are you really somehow trying to justify violating 1NF? Please, give us a break.
All,
I think seeing these lame justifications for what otherwise would be a WTF is better than the WTFs sometimes.
Admin
For some reason I love the sheer esoteric spectacle of a geek argument.
I have to admit that Chris F is winning this matchup so far... I too use cygwin on windows (I use it to rsync a backup to my home Mac faster than the "corporate" backup software does it... which of course I cannot remove) and sure enough "ln -s" will create a crappy Windows shortcut file.
It pays to double-check your sources before you try to touché someone.
Admin
I am aware of SQLServer's deficiencies, yes. I was referring to the use of hungarian notation, not to the lousy standards compliance of one database server over another.
And not .... No. Fish in a barrel.
Simon
Admin
Apologies, should have gone to the next page. (That is one thing I don't like about this forum - pages are only visible at the bottom. On most forums, they have them at the top as well.)
But the point still stands. You said that they can only be used on directories, and this is true. I'm assuming that, since you pointed this out, Linux can use them on files as well? <sarcasm>Wow, that's a major leap in functionality.</sarcasm>
Seriously, you're just being picky now. Stop it. It's just not cool, funny, clever, intelligent, or anything like that. It's just stupid.
Admin
There's times when having a junction on a single file would be very useful, but even *nix uses folder links most of the time. It's just a minor convenience, not a reason to damn or laud a filesystem.
Versioning, however, is.
NTFS is nearly identical to ext3, aside from minor details like file-level symlinking. But it's reiser that we should be going to, and higher-performance database backends; fortunately NTFS supports third-party version-control plugin drivers, but that's less than ideal.
Admin
What's not cool is pretending you know how important a feature this is to me or anybody else here. You're like the deaf man talking about how overrated music is because you can read lips.
Admin
You should consider very carefully the wisdom of posting a VB6 WTF whilst attempting to poke fun at Linux folk; in my experience, you (all programmers) are a bit ghey. So the one poking fun at the other is rather a lot kettle->blackpot.
Retards.
Admin
Seriously, not only Linux can, but every Unix I encountered can.
Almost every Unix uses it to map certain important configuration files from their original location (for example below /opt) into /etc.
Likewise almost every Unix uses it to map the most current of different library versions to the default name. (It is always libc.so, but if you need a special version you still can explicitly bind libc.so.4 or libc.so.5. On the other hand on Windows if you run a VB5 program you will need the msvbvm50.dll exactly, although you might have msvbvm60.dll already installed. There is no "most-current-symlink" from msvbm.dll. Too bad! Well actually the situation with VB is not the worst. Ever had two applications at the same time on the same machine that needed different versions of comdlg32.dll ?)
Solaris uses it to map logical device names to physical devices (for example /dev/dsk/c0t0d0s0 may point to /devices/pci@1f,0/ide@d/dad@0,0:a).
So don't tell me, that symlinking files it is just another unimportant feature. It is essential to me (on Unix), and NTFS doesn't have it, but luckily I don't need it on Windows, but I'd like to have it..
cu
Admin
What foxy said...
Unless, of course, you can explain why it's so vitally important that you be able to symlink files, as opposed to the directory? No? Oh, ok, then, you're just blowing hot air. I thought so
Admin
Sorry, that was @Chris F
Admin
The single most important use of symbolic links to me is their ability to abstract and maintain the integrity the filesystem. Systems have been using them for decades to protect against incompatibilities, provide organization, centralize configuration, and relieve the stress of structural changes. All without touching application code.
It's not my job to stroke your dimunitive imagination. Others have given more specific demonstrations. But a word to the wise: If a programmer thinks fundamental concepts like abstraction aren't "vitally important", I would suggest they are either seriously inexperienced or in the wrong line of work.
Admin
Mod parent up funny!!!!!!!!!!!!11
Admin
You know, the purpose of normalisation is to produce smaller, more well structured relations from relations with anomalies. While it is very important to take all your database designs through the steps from conception to 3NF, any decent DBA or software developer knows that there comes a time that redundancy is a good thing. Okay, so it violates normalisation rules, but if it improves the performance of the application and the database access times, why not do it? Don't we spend part of our time trying to figure out the "optimal" solutions in our code? Why not let the DBMS do its job with the data so we don't have to. I mean, it's better at it than us....
Admin
Admin
eagle wrote some very sensible stuff,then:
I don't think you've really summed it up :
As it stands, the unix model would certainly seem to be the more flexible, but it is still far from perfect
I would argue that what is really needed is a paradigm shift to using file metadata in one form or another - that way one could have multiple versions of a library which would not interfere (much like the unix model), but would be able to link against files in a more flexible manner (latest version that is > 4.2 and < 5.1, for example).
I believe the old Be filesystem could do this, but I may be wrong.
The ability to do something like symlinking will still be necessary (and it does need to be at an atomic, file level, sorry NTFS lovers) but there's no need for it to be implemented as it currently is under any existing filesystem. It could, for example, be done using a 'view' on a real filesystem implemented as a database.
simon
Admin
That's a nice feature, I'll admit, but it's far from essential. Try again.
Ah, the claim of the wrong.
Me: "explain your assertions"
You: "I don't have to explain them!"
If you aren't willing to back up your assertions, don't make them. Oh, and a word to the wise: abstraction in programming is a completely different issue.
On the subject of DLL-Hell, Windows definitely has issues in this area. Some of these are COM-related, some are to do with replacing files. Windows Installer, Application Isolation and .NET all go some way to solving this problem, though they don't do it completely. (.NET is the only one to really get it right, but to use it you have to program in .NET, which obviously doesn't work for everyone).
Admin
How does it do it? (Not a troll, just actually interested)
simon
Admin
Firstly, apps have to work really hard to access assemblies outside of their own directory structure (meaning two applications never crash). Secondly, and most importantly, there's the Global Assembly Cache, which can store multiple versions of the same file, and can be accessed by all applications. Each assembly (what .NET calls a dll) in the GAC has a number of different identity components (public key, culture, version, etc). So an app calling a particular DLL asks for a particular DLL of a particular version. If someone else installs a different version of that dll, they coexist side by side, so your app still gets the version it wants
Admin
that's supposed to say "meaning two applications never clash" [8-)]
Admin
Doesn't that somewhat defeat the object of having shared libraries?
Hmmmm - okay.
please tell me that the metadata lives within or is otherwise permanently linked to the 'assembly', and not separate, in the global cache. Please tell me that. Because as described it sounds rather like a "registry for dlls" :)
Simon
Admin
Of course. It's stored within the DLL. How else could you have multiple versions of the same file?