• (disco) in reply to Gaska
    Gaska:
    Blakey providing one of the only two instances of where he admitted he was slightly off the truth in 3... 2... 1...

    He's been repeatedly called on this, albeit rarely, and hasn't so far, so I feel confident in predicting he won't now, except out of spite.

  • (disco) in reply to FrostCat

    I wouldn't trust anything you hear from FrostCat, considering he can't read and has virtually no memory.

    Gaska, the reason I didn't answer your question is that the last time I engaged with you you said, and I quote:

    Gaska:
    This is the most stupid thing I heard all week. And it's just Tuesday!

    I'm done.

    So I assumed you weren't interested in hearing it.

    Why should I bother wearing my fingers down for someone who's just going to insult me anyway?

  • (disco) in reply to blakeyrat
    blakeyrat:
    I wouldn't trust anything you hear from FrostCat, considering he can't read and has virtually no memory.

    I remember many of the times you've abandoned the field instead of admitting to being wrong!

  • (disco) in reply to FrostCat

    Maybe; but you seem to not remember at all any of the instances where I admitted I was wrong.

  • (disco) in reply to blakeyrat
    blakeyrat:
    I wouldn't trust anything you hear from FrostCat, considering he can't read and has virtually no memory.
    I don't have to trust him if I have myself witnessed exactly the thing he's talking about.
    blakeyrat:
    Gaska
    It's Gąska! Will you ever learn!?
    blakeyrat:
    the reason I didn't answer your question is that the last time I engaged with you you said [stuff] So I assumed you weren't interested in hearing it.
    There were two hours and twenty posts between when I asked that question and told I'm done with you. Also, do I really have to want to listen to you to notice your habit of being very selective about what you do and what you don't reply to in a given topic?
    blakeyrat:
    Why should I bother wearing my fingers down for someone who's just going to insult me anyway?
    Where did I insult you? Do you feel insultet when people call you Blakeyrat or what?
  • (disco) in reply to blakeyrat
    blakeyrat:
    Maybe; but you seem to not remember at all any of the instances where I admitted I was wrong.
    @antiquarian, I've won the bet!
  • (disco) in reply to Gaska
    Gaska:
    Also, do I really have to want to listen to you to notice your habit of being very selective about what you do and what you don't reply to in a given topic?

    I don't know what you're asking, but I'm pretty sure the answer is yes.

    You have to want to listen to me.

    I am just that amazing.

  • (disco) in reply to blakeyrat
    blakeyrat:
    I don't know what you're asking, but I'm pretty sure the answer is yes.
    It wasn't yes/no question. And you can't not know what I was asking about if you explained why you didn't answer, because it means you *know* there was a question, so you *had* to read it.
    blakeyrat:
    You have to want to listen to me.
    Well, I don't. Sue me.
  • (disco) in reply to blakeyrat
    blakeyrat:
    Maybe; but you seem to not remember at all any of the instances where I admitted I was wrong.

    The guy whose schtick is deliberately and creatively misinterpreting what people say has no call assuming what other people might have meant when they say stuff.

  • (disco) in reply to Gaska
    Gaska:
    It's Gąska! Will you ever learn!?

    Dammit, my keyboard doesn't have your weird-ass letter. How about we call you Ga,ska? Or you could change your name to use a regular a?

  • (disco) in reply to Gaska
    Gaska:
    @antiquarian, I've won the bet!

    Not if he's talking about the empty set.

  • (disco) in reply to blakeyrat
    blakeyrat:
    You have to want to listen to me.

    I am just that amazing.

    Truth be told, it's more like "can't make themselves stop", by way of analogy to "can't make myself look away from this trainwreck".

  • (disco) in reply to FrostCat
    FrostCat:
    Dammit, my keyboard doesn't have your weird-ass letter. How about we call you Ga,ska? Or you could change your name to use a regular a?
    Look at my name tag. Now pick your favorite method of copying and pasting.
    FrostCat:
    Not if he's talking about the empty set.
    It's not empty set. I remember that he admitted it at least once. If I searched for my old posts containing words "print out" and "hang above my bed" (or similar wording), I could even find the exact thing.
  • (disco) in reply to tarunik
    tarunik:
    I've been considering a notion of pointer "kind" actually -- where that "kind" would be associated with a memory region. For instance, a pointer to code would be one "kind" (basically, a function pointer), while a pointer to static variables would be another "kind", and a pointer to some fixed address (such as a MMIO reg) would be yet another "kind", likewise for pointers to stack variables and pointers to dynamically allocated memory.

    You realise that you're basically reinventing types here? There really isn't a lot of difference between these things (except for MMIO registers). Code and data really are the same thing at the base level of computing; that's the whole point of using the (modified) Von Neumann architectures we do. It's this that makes things like JIT compilation engines possible, and that's at the heart of a very large number of modern programming languages. Yes, the writability of a memory page has some impact, but the OS will let you change that; it's really just a soft-enforced convention for the most part.

    Types are a fairly complicated topic, and there's been a fair amount of disagreement over them. (Double whammy with the understatements, there!)

  • (disco) in reply to FrostCat
    FrostCat:
    Dammit, my keyboard doesn't have your weird-ass letter.

    But you can cut-n-paste… :p

  • (disco) in reply to Gaska
    Gaska:
    Look at my name tag. Now pick your favorite method of copying and pasting.

    I hope you do realize I was just joking. I don't think I've ever even typed out your name except just now. If I need to type it again I will certainly try to do that.

    Gaska:
    It's not empty set. I remember that he admitted it at least once

    I know, I was just going for the cheap gag.

    He likes to make digs sometimes about how I don't closely read what he writes. But why should I, given his abrasive attitude?

  • (disco) in reply to dkf
    dkf:
    Types are a fairly complicated topic, and there's been a fair amount of disagreement over them.

    But one thing we can all agree on is that they're useful, except when they're not :smile:

  • (disco) in reply to FrostCat
    FrostCat:
    I hope you do realize I was just joking.
    Enough people said exactly what you said, comma after "a" included, in absolutely serious way that it was very hard to me to notice the joke in your post.
    FrostCat:
    I don't think I've ever even typed out your name except just now.
    I'm pretty sure you've just microaggressed me somehow here.
    FrostCat:
    If I need to type it again I will certainly try to do that.
    <implying that you might not succeed in actually doing that>
    FrostCat:
    He likes to make digs sometimes about how I don't closely read what he writes. But why should I, given his abrasive attitude?
    I do it for fun.
  • (disco) in reply to blakeyrat
    blakeyrat:
    That's why you want to start early. You tackle the hard problems first, leave the easy problems to the open source numbnuts, since they're too incompetent to solve the hard ones anyway.

    Your prejudices are getting in the way of understanding. I've read the source code to at least six GUI toolkit libraries (I've lost track of how many, to be honest) and the core challenges in each of them were around asynchronicity and the handling of the sheer quantity of detail each requires. An example of an area where these things come together to become really annoying is in the low-level controllers for second-level complexity widgets, such as a listbox or combobox (buttons and labels are first-level complexity). Getting them right isn't trivial; there's a great many failure modes, especially once you start mixing input devices. And there are a lot more complex widgets than those in a typical GUI toolkit! (Hypertext widgets are notorious for being complex beasts.)

    Of course, application programmers typically ignore virtually all this stuff, and instead use something that already exists. That's the point of putting it in a library in the first place.

    And the problems faced by commercial GUI toolkit authors will be the same. It's still the same problem, and the same solutions make sense. There's really not that much difference between working with Windows or Linux in this area; the abstractions are recognisably similar. (OSX is way more different for Special Snowflake Raisins. Sometimes that's an improvement, but more often it isn't…)

  • (disco) in reply to FrostCat
    FrostCat:
    The best way to get those idiots to see reason would be to write a demo for them that caused that to happen. Preferably when they were showing it to their bosses.

    "Oh, yeah, it does that sometimes. Unless you want to hire an high school kid to watch the server and click Ok, we can't do it that way. Of course, even if we did that, people who had to wait for him to notice it might get a bit upset, but at least we didn't make the BAs change their ideas."

    +1

    There should be an "Evil but useful" ideas thread just for this kind of thinking.

  • (disco) in reply to Gaska
    Gaska:
    Enough people said exactly what you said, comma after "a" included, in absolutely serious way that it was very hard to me to notice the joke in your post.

    Dang. I thought I was being clever.

    Gaska:
    I'm pretty sure you've just microaggressed me somehow here.

    I don't microaggress. You were full-on aggressed. [insert Germany invading Poland joke here].

    Gaska:
    <implying that you might not succeed in actually doing that>

    I'll come right out and say it. I wouldn't deliberately not use the ą, but since it's not actually part of your username I'd have to make a special effort to address it, and I can't guarantee I won't forget until I've been reminded a few times.

  • (disco) in reply to redwizard
    redwizard:
    There should be an "Evil but useful" ideas thread just for this kind of thinking.

    I wouldn't call that evil at all, frankly. It's calculated to dissuade people who want to use Office on the server. If you really had to do it, of course you'd get one of those "ok button clicker" apps that I remember seeing all the way back in the dialup days in the late 90s, but you don't want to tell the BAs those exist because they're more likely[1] to accept "The license forbids it" than "it's a stupid fucking idea." If that doesn't work, run it by legal.

    [1] I admit that in an absolute sense it might not be much more likely.

  • (disco) in reply to FrostCat
    FrostCat:
    [insert Germany invading Poland joke here]
    Why would Germany invade their own province?
    FrostCat:
    since it's not actually part of your username
    It is. It's just due to Discurse not handling non-ASCII (**in fucking 2015 FFS!!!**) that I was forced to misrepresent it in the signup form.
  • (disco) in reply to FrostCat
    FrostCat:
    calculated

    Calculatedly Evil. Yes, I got it the first time. ;-)

  • (disco) in reply to Gaska
    Gaska:
    Discurse not handling non-ASCII

    Yeah, I know. Just out of curiosity, did you ever file a bug report/BITCHCOMPLAINt? (I honestly don't recall.)

  • (disco) in reply to redwizard
    redwizard:
    Calculatedly Evil.

    I don't consider it evil at all. I'm (hypothetically) trying to keep the company from doing something bad.

  • (disco) in reply to FrostCat
    FrostCat:
    I wouldn't call that evil at all, frankly. It's calculated to dissuade people who want to use Office on the server. If you really had to do it, of course you'd get one of those "ok button clicker" apps that I remember seeing all the way back in the dialup days in the late 90s, but you don't want to tell the BAs those exist because they're more likely[1] to accept "The license forbids it" than "it's a stupid fucking idea." If that doesn't work, run it by legal.

    I'd suggest that you should think more in terms of Cloud-Based Crowdsourcing, farming out the button clicking to some random drongo hired by the click through something like Amazon Mechanical Turk. Yes, you'll be sending all that financial data to a person you've never met in an unknown country in the world just for them to click a few buttons and send the results back, hopefully without copying all that sensitive stuff and selling it to someone else! But you'll be buzzword-compliant, and that's what actually matters!

  • (disco) in reply to FrostCat
    FrostCat:
    redwizard:
    Calculatedly Evil.

    I don't consider it evil at all. I'm (hypothetically) trying to keep the company from doing something bad.

    Of course. That's the evil part - making the BA's look stupid because it shouldn't be a technical person's job to watch out for license agreement gotchas. That's management and BA's job, particularly the Consulting Business Analyst. It states: "This requires the analyst to come up with different model processes and create user documentation." Well, they better not come up with ILLEGAL processes while they're at it!!

    EDIT: of course, if you wanted to be truly evil, document and follow their illegal suggestion, have Microsoft audit them, and after the legal fallout is done turn the events into a front-page article on TDWTF.

  • (disco) in reply to dkf

    Well, that actually would be evil. Not to mention, since someone already did, that it won't work in recent OSes.

  • (disco) in reply to redwizard
    redwizard:
    That's the evil part - making the BA's look stupid

    Gotcha. Well, I try not to make people I have to work with look stupid unless I'm pretty sure I can get 'em fired, because I have never had the luxury of working at an idiot-free place.

  • (disco) in reply to FrostCat
    FrostCat:
    I have never had the luxury of working at an idiot-free place.

    Touché. Also, just edited my previous post, may want to read the addition.

  • (disco) in reply to redwizard
    redwizard:
    Well, they better not come up with ILLEGAL processes while they're at it!

    “Ah, but you didn't specify that in the contract. Yes, sure, we can have a renegotiation if you want to add it in, but I think it'll be within my rights — as detailed in this clause right here — to get additional compensation for all the hassle involved. I know it would be illegal for you to implement these suggestions, but I was explicitly told to ignore that phase of the project, and that I wouldn't be able to bid to contract on that part.”

  • (disco) in reply to FrostCat
    FrostCat:
    Yeah, I know. Just out of curiosity, did you ever file a bug report/BITCHCOMPLAINt? (I honestly don't recall.)
    Last time I complained about anything in Dicksauce, it got WONTFIX-ed because of my device having too little market share to bother.
  • (disco) in reply to dkf
    dkf:
    “Ah, but you didn't specify that in the contract. Yes, sure, we can have a renegotiation if you want to add it in, but I think it'll be within my rights — as detailed in this clause right here — to get additional compensation for all the hassle involved. I know it would be illegal for you to implement these suggestions, but I was explicitly told to ignore that phase of the project, and that I wouldn't be able to bit to contract on that part.”

    Cute. See how much repeat business they get with that attitude (nepotism and political connectedness aside).

  • (disco) in reply to redwizard
    redwizard:
    Cute. See how much repeat business they get with *that* attitude (nepotism and political connectedness aside).

    In a big city? You'd be (unhappily) surprised.

    Or you'd look a bit down and see that, oh yes, it's someone from IBM or Atos or Accenture or… well, quite a few consulting firms in fact. When the general approach of all members of this group is virtually identical, why get overly worried about which one is wearing the purple dragon dildo this time?

  • (disco) in reply to redwizard
    redwizard:
    Also, just edited my previous post, may want to read the addition.

    I don't think MS would go after them for that kind of EULA violation. Misusing software you paid for isn't the the same kind of thing as stealing it.

  • (disco) in reply to Gaska
    Gaska:
    Last time I complained about anything in Dicksauce, it got WONTFIX-ed because of my device having too little market share to bother.

    I don't see how that's relevant to allowing Unicode usernames, but you could always resubmit the bugrep from an actual Windows desktop/laptop or something.

  • (disco) in reply to dkf
    dkf:
    redwizard:
    Cute. See how much repeat business they get with *that* attitude (nepotism and political connectedness aside).

    In a big city? You'd be (unhappily) surprised.

    Or you'd look a bit down and see that, oh yes, it's someone from IBM or Atos or Accenture or… well, quite a few consulting firms in fact. When the general approach of all members of this group is virtually identical, why get overly worried about which one is wearing the purple dragon dildo this time?

    I recall a number of years ago someone saying: "No one got fired for choosing EMC Insert big-name company here. It is precisely that attitude that allows these big names to get away with what you're talking about. It's also why I have learned to stay away from them, because their response time is typically slow and nonchalant due you being a small fish not worthy of their attention. Enforce SLAs? You'd better be willing to bring out the lawyers.

    Smaller firms? Nope, a few clients treated badly like that and they vanish. They have incentive not to screw up. They have their own shortcomings too, but having leverage is worth a lot (there's that evil business term again, 'leverage').

  • (disco) in reply to FrostCat
    FrostCat:
    I don't think MS would go after them for that kind of EULA violation. Misusing software you paid for isn't the the same kind of thing as stealing it.

    I've read that EULA. While I don't have it to hand, essentially running any kind of MS Office software on a server means every client touching that server has to be MS Office licensed. Essentially, if they aren't, you are stealing from Microsoft. So yes, depending on who gets that communication at Microsoft, it very well may lead to an audit.

    That being said, I believe your analysis is the more likely scenario.

  • (disco) in reply to redwizard
    redwizard:
    running any kind of MS Office software on a server means every client touching that server has to be MS Office licensed.

    Well TIL, I guess.

  • (disco) in reply to Gaska
    Gaska:
    Last time I complained about anything in Dicksauce, it got WONTFIX-ed because of my devicelanguage having too little market share to bother.

    FTFP

  • (disco) in reply to FrostCat
    FrostCat:
    I have never had the luxury of working at an idiot-free place.
    I'm pretty sure no one here ever has. I know I haven't, even when I was running my own consulting business. I imagine the same is true for anyone who would post here, or anywhere else on the Internet for that matter.
  • (disco) in reply to Gaska
    Gaska:
    I work just fine with simple text editor and terminal combo. It would be far better with IDE, but it isn't that important.

    If you're not using the best tools available you're stealing from your employer.

    Once upon a time I used a simple text editor for all my programming. These days I recognise the value provided by an IDE and I see my productivity plummet when I can't use it or I'm using languages that aren't supported. I can do it, it's just a lot slower and more error-prone. It feels like I'm programming with two hands tied behind my back.

  • (disco) in reply to Gaska
    Gaska:
    Look at my name tag. Now pick your favorite method of copying and pasting.
    *makes a mental note to start writing it as Gaską*
    FrostCat:
    but since it's not actually part of your username I'd have to make a special effort to address it
    This.
  • (disco) in reply to another_sam
    another_sam:
    If you're not using the best tools available you're stealing from your employer.

    “Best” has a flexible definition. You need to define the metric. (Yes, I've worked in areas where the most advanced tools were millions of bucks per seat per year. I don't now.)

  • (disco) in reply to FrostCat
    FrostCat:
    I don't see how that's relevant to allowing Unicode usernames
    I bet two beers that if someone reported it, the answer would be "just use ASCII substitutes for the non-ASCII letters and put your actual name in the full name field".
    another_sam:
    If you're not using the best tools available you're stealing from your employer.
    And simple text editor is the best tool available in this case.
    Scarlet_Manuka:
    makes a mental note to start writing it as Gaską
    That isn't even the right grammatical case :weary:
  • (disco)

    TIL that because of German Law, Contra had to be baked to something else involving robots and aliens in Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probotector

    At the time I didn't live in Europe so it's all new to me

  • (disco) in reply to dkf
    dkf:
    You realise that you're basically reinventing types here? There really isn't a lot of difference between these things (except for MMIO registers). Code and data really are the same thing at the base level of computing; that's the whole point of using the (modified) Von Neumann architectures we do. It's this that makes things like JIT compilation engines possible, and that's at the heart of a very large number of modern programming languages. Yes, the writability of a memory page has some impact, but the OS will let you change that; it's really just a soft-enforced convention for the most part.

    Types are a fairly complicated topic, and there's been a fair amount of disagreement over them. (Double whammy with the understatements, there!)

    Yeah -- this could be expressed in a typesystem fairly easily -- the only reason I distinguished this from the normal notion of type is because this is a different axis of metadata than the normal type notions express.

  • (disco) in reply to Eldelshell
    Eldelshell:
    TIL that because of German Law, Contra had to be baked to something else involving robots and aliens in Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probotector
    > This was done to circumvent the BPjM's censorship laws in Germany, which prohibits the sales of violent video games to minors.

    Because apparently the level of violence isn't the issue; you can have all the shooting and dismemberment you like in kids' games, so long as it's done to robots :rolleyes:

  • (disco) in reply to Gaska
    Gaska:
    It's just due to Discurse not handling non-ASCII

    The space character (ASCII codepoint 0x20 / 32) has been in the ASCII specs since the very beginning iirc. And not even that is accepted in a user name.

    Besides that, using only 7 bits per character saves tonsmilligrams of disk space. Which was essential in 1975, so why the heck not in 2015, a mere 40 years later?

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