• rc4 (disco)

    :whoosh: And he dives in for the frist!

  • rc4 (disco) in reply to rc4

    He frists, he BEATS PAULA TO THE UNLIST BY A FRACTION OF A SECOND!

    IT'S UNBELIEVABLE!

    And the crowd goes WILD!

    I liked the article, btw. Pretty good one.

  • LB_ (disco) in reply to rc4

    You got between the unlists, not before.


    Wow. That work environment is...probably still going to be used for years.

  • Tsaukpaetra (disco)

    Well, beats out helium-filled balloons for delivery?

  • HardwareGeek (disco)
    Comment held for moderation.
  • rc4 (disco) in reply to LB_

    Before one of them.

  • PJH (disco) in reply to HardwareGeek
    HardwareGeek:
    To whomever submitted that WTF:

    Do read the HTML comments; there is some good advice there.

    This.

  • Quite (disco)

    Yes I remember Jane. She was a waste of space. Always complaining that her machine was too slow, didn't have enough memory and her tools were too old. I pointed out to her many times that when I started in the computer industry it was on a machine that had a total of 65,536 bytes of internal memory (of which a good proportion of that was taken up with the operating system) and that the programs had to be loaded from a cassette tape recorder.

    Well, it's a bad workperson who always blames her tools, but the last straw was when she proved incapable of making sure she ran our time-management software. The rule is: if it's broke, fix it. This she failed to do. We fired her. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

  • PWolff (disco) in reply to HardwareGeek
    HardwareGeek:
    To whomever submitted that WTF:

    Do read the HTML comments; there is some good advice there.

    Hell, even invite Satan into your life

    But wouldn't that be even worse than a job at his/her/its company (which Jane obviously had)?

  • PJH (disco)

    Looks like Paula's stopped being productive herself...

  • PJH (disco)
  • Hasteur (disco) in reply to PWolff

    Making a deal with the devil can only be moving up, unless the devil already made a deal that resulted in this.

  • Eldelshell (disco) in reply to HardwareGeek
    HardwareGeek:
    Do read the HTML comments; there is some good advice there.

    GTFO. You don't need that garbage. There are other jobs, and none of them may be perfect, but you don't have to spend your day getting your soul crushed out through your eye sockets. Make an exit plan- start sending out resumes now, start looking for side gigs, whatever. Look at your savings and estimate how long you could go without a job. Hell, even invite Satan into your life and start talking to recruiters. Just get out.

    Probably the same thing any one of us would say around here.

    PJH:
    Looks like Paula's stopped being productive herself...

    Maybe a DLL broke.

  • benibela (disco)

    The true WTF is of course Java.

    WTF is wrong with 4 GB? I used to write Windows software on a computer with 64 MB and it was fast enough. (and do not get me started on the old DOS system)

  • asdf (disco) in reply to benibela
    benibela:
    WTF is wrong with 4 GB?

    Nothing, unless you try to run WebLogic, Firefox and Eclipse (TRWTF) on the same machine. None of my computers has more than 4GB.

  • AlexMedia (disco) in reply to rc4

    Ahhh, the old "Use IM software to see if people are working" tactic. I'm all too familiar with that one, I once was at a place where I'd get a call if I was not online at 9:15 in the morning (the policy was 'Everyone is in at 9').

    Of course, I was in a little before 9 in the morning, but I still had to start my VM which contained their crappy install of LCS 2005. This was back in 2013.

    PaulaBean:
    UNLISTED 12 HOURS AGO
    PaulaBean:
    UNLISTED 12 HOURS AGO

    Seriously, how is this even possible?

  • tjoener (disco)

    Is it just me, but hibernate?

  • RFoxmich (disco) in reply to benibela

    64MB bloody luxury. I used to write software on a computer with 128K words of 16 bit RAM. Before that bit of luxury I had to input programs by flipping front panel switches. Not even going to talk about the system I used with 512Bytes.

    You guys nowadays are just spoiled rotten.

  • accalia (disco) in reply to AlexMedia
    AlexMedia:
    Seriously, how is this even possible?

    Discourse is a vunderbar thing, is it not?

  • PJH (disco) in reply to accalia
    accalia:
    Discourse is a vunderbar thing, is it not?

    I rather suspect that wasn't Discourse this time.

  • Arantor (disco) in reply to RFoxmich

    Yorkshire is :arrows:

  • operagost (disco) in reply to AlexMedia

    Seems like if you're virtually punching in a time card, you should be a non-exempt employee.

  • HardwareGeek (disco) in reply to operagost
    operagost:
    Seems like if you're virtually punching in a time card, you should be a non-exempt employee.

    I once worked in a place where even the VP punched a time clock on his way in and out of the building. No, I didn't work there very long.

  • CoyneTheDup (disco) in reply to Quite
    Quite:
    Yes I remember Jane. She was a waste of space. Always complaining that her machine was too slow, didn't have enough memory and her tools were too old. I pointed out to her many times that when I started in the computer industry it was on a machine that had a total of 65,536 bytes of internal memory (of which a good proportion of that was taken up with the operating system) and that the programs had to be loaded from a cassette tape recorder.

    Well, it's a bad workperson who always blames her tools, but the last straw was when she proved incapable of making sure she ran our time-management software, after we broke it to ensure her non-compliance. The rule is: if it's broke, fix it. This she failed to do. We fired her. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

    FTFY

  • Gaska (disco) in reply to benibela
    benibela:
    WTF is wrong with 4 GB?
    Well, for starters, most Windows XP versions have about 3GB memory cap...
  • Matt_Westwood (disco) in reply to HardwareGeek

    So refreshing to work in a place where nobody gives a damn whether you're there or not. Long as you get the work done ... and it's up to you what work you do.

  • Zylon (disco) in reply to CoyneTheDup
    CoyneTheDup:
    FTFY
    The post you just attempted to "fix" was a joke. You have made yourself look stupid.
  • DocMonster (disco)

    Ah yes, the classic we need to have you log into some IM system all the time to make sure you are actually working, because we do not trust anybody to be an adult, and anyone who is not is clearly not working and stealing the company's money.

  • jkshapiro (disco) in reply to HardwareGeek
    HardwareGeek:
    whomever submitted that WTF
    Normally I wouldn't gramming but when the poster describes themselves as "Viscount Pedantic Dickweed" I figure maybe they might appreciate it. This should be "whoever".

    Also, bang on about reading the HTML comments, i.e. that the submitter should find another job. "Jane", whoever you are, you deserve better than this.

  • Gurth (disco) in reply to benibela
    benibela:
    WTF is wrong with 4 GB? I used to write Windows software on a computer with 64 MB and it was fast enough.
    Nothing — as long as you use the computer to run programs designed around the time when the machine’s specs were reasonably current. One of the chief practical problems with Windows, IMO, is that you generally can’t do that unless the machine is completely disconnected from the outside world, because even if everything else on the computer is as old as the hardware, you’re going to need to run a current virus scanner that’ll slow the thing down to a crawl.
  • HardwareGeek (disco) in reply to jkshapiro
    jkshapiro:
    This should be "whoever".

    This situation is a bit confusing. It is the object of a preposition, to; therefore, it should usually be in the accusative case: whomever. It is further confused by its similarity to the stock phrase To whom it may concern. However, in this case, the phrase To who[m]ever is acting as the subject of the verb submitted; therefore, it should be in the nominative case, whoever. In contrast, in the stock phrase, it is the subject of the verb, and whom is functioning as the object.

    In short, you are correct, sir; well done. Flagged for gramming.

  • jkshapiro (disco) in reply to HardwareGeek

    May I suggest a minor revision?

    HardwareGeek:
    In this case, the phraseword *To who[m]ever* is acting as the subject of the verb *submitted*; therefore, it should be in the nominative case, *whoever*.
  • dkf (disco) in reply to Gurth
    Gurth:
    One of the chief practical problems with Windows, IMO, is that you generally can’t do that unless the machine is completely disconnected from the outside world, because even if everything else on the computer is as old as the hardware, you’re going to need to run a current virus scanner that’ll slow the thing down to a crawl.

    For some reason, the Microsoft basic AV stuff (whose name escapes me right now) seems to be about as good as is necessary most of the time, and any computer that uses any of the commercial competitors to it seems to have problems eventually. I suspect that a lot of AV code is TRWTF in many ways; when the cure is much worse than the disease most of the time, there's a real problem and the AV vendors seem collectively unable to handle this.

    But running Eclipse on a machine with less than 8GB is typically painful. The ways to make that pain lessened are to turn down the amount of memory it allocates and to uninstall every plugin you don't strictly need; some of the plugins are… profligate in their memory usage.

  • tharpa (disco) in reply to operagost
    operagost:
    Seems like if you're virtually punching in a time card, you should be a non-exempt employee.

    It would seem that way, but "Exempt" only benefits one party.

  • asdf (disco) in reply to Gurth
    Gurth:
    need to run a current virus scanner

    I've been using Windows Defender only for years, and I'm still fine. Using an ad blocker helps against drive-by infections while browsing. Common sense takes care of the rest.

  • WernerCD (disco) in reply to PWolff
    Comment held for moderation.
  • tenshino (disco) in reply to operagost
    operagost:
    Seems like if you're virtually punching in a time card, you should be a non-exempt employee.

    I had a past job where I was frequently required to work 60-70 hours/week. I did have to clock in and out but, unfortunately, I was considered an "exempt" employee and was not paid overtime. But, as soon as you took off early one day and only clocked 38 hours for the week, they would dock your pay 2 hours.

    It was a horrible (and probably illegal) business practice, and one of the main reasons that I quit. My ultimate breaking point was the day I called in sick, because I woke up with a 102 degree fever, but still logged on that afternoon and got everything important finished, since I knew there was time-critical stuff that only I took care of. My boss still proceeded to chew me out the following morning for being sick saying that I was "too important to not be at my desk every day blah blah blah."

    That was the only job I have ever just "walked out".

  • Kurt.C.Pause (disco)
    rc4:
    He frists, he BEATS PAULA TO THE UNLIST BY A FRACTION OF A SECOND!

    Another option in america: Document. Get Stuff in Written from Boss. Sue for discriminiation & illegal workpractices until you own the place.

    Rat them out to all the software companies for which pirated stuff is around (very likely in this stingy scenario) Rat them out to the SEC for non compliance of rules and stuff.

    Or, in a less dramatic move, go to HR and hint that you might do those things (without being threatening!)

  • tharpa (disco) in reply to tenshino
    tenshino:
    It was a horrible (and probably illegal) business practice

    I believe it is perfectly legal. If you were non-exempt, it would be illegal. The only possibility is if you did not qualify for Exempt.

    I once worked at a company, before I was a programmer, as a data processor and tech support. My company lost the contract. The new company hired some of us. I negotiated a raise based on the same number of hours. However, the new position was Exempt. The new director tried to get us to do unpaid overtime. I told him that I had negotiated my new wage based on the assumption that it would be the same hours as the old company. If he wanted additional hours, he would have to pay me more. I informed him of this in front of the other team members, which is where he made the demand. He backed down.

  • tenshino (disco) in reply to tharpa

    The law here allows for anyone in "Management" or "IT" to be classified as exempt. I guess maybe I don't understand the difference (if there is one) between "exempt" and "salaried". I guess I had always assumed hat those two words were fairly interchangeable.

  • damercer (disco) in reply to tenshino

    I worked for a company where one manager decided that exempt employees would be given only 4 sick days. Someone complained to the Feds who informed the company President that it was a violation of Federal law to treat exempt employees like hourly employees and as such they were in danger of having everybody reclassified as hourly. This reclassification would be backdated to the beginning of the policy. Since they insisted that everyone track their time, and people routinely worked weekends, holidays and unpaid overtime, if that had happened they would have owed their employees millions of dollars in back pay. The President insisted that no such policy existed and the manager had a long, uncomfortable conversation with him. Too bad, I could have used the extra cash.

    Dan Mercer

  • Dragnslcr (disco) in reply to tharpa
    tharpa:
    I believe it is perfectly legal. If you were non-exempt, it would be illegal. The only possibility is if you did not qualify for Exempt.

    I think it's the other way. If you're not exempt and you're paid hourly, your company can pay you for fewer than 40 hours if you work fewer than 40 hours. If you're paid based on an annual salary, reducing your pay for failing to work enough hours would probably be considered taking money out of your paycheck, which, in most (if not all) states in the U.S., is illegal for any reason other than taxes and benefits that you elect to pay for (family insurance, transit passes, etc.).

    Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, though I have worked as a manager of hourly employees in one state.

  • FrostCat (disco) in reply to tenshino
    tenshino:
    I guess I had always assumed hat those two words were fairly interchangeable.

    While they're generally conflated, they're not technically the same. A non-exempt salaried person would be eligible for overtime. IIRC in the US there's a nasty loophole in the law that lets a lot of low-level programmers be classified as exempt when in any other job they wouldn't be.

  • Matt_Westwood (disco) in reply to FrostCat

    What is this "overtime" you speak of? Last time I ever got paid overtime for working more hours than contracted was 2008. This is one area in which UK business practice is specifically worse than the US, workers in IT seem to take it for granted that they have to work unpaid overtime.

    The incident that ruined it for me at one company was the beginning of 2010 when the entire company was shut down because of the snow. I had slogged in 5 miles on foot to get there (buses had been cancelled) because I was told I had no choice or I would have my salary docked. On arrival I found the office was locked up and I couldn't get in, so I had to slog all the way back home again. This took till mid-morning, where I rang my boss (who was working from home) and told him that I was also going to work from home. (Although I had the facilities to WFH, and I was putting in several hours extra of an evening and was working most weekends), I was not officially allowed to during the working day, I was expected to work in the office. It was a status thing: some were, some weren't.)

    So I rang him, told him what had happened, and the answer was that I would have to take the morning as half a day of my annual leave because I hadn't been at work on time. It didn't make any difference anyway, I wasn't allowed to take any of my annual leave at all that year.

  • CoyneTheDup (disco) in reply to Zylon
    Zylon:
    The post you just attempted to "fix" was a joke. You have made yourself look stupid.

    YMBNH. We fix everything...jokes, non.jokes, pendantry, ....

  • dkf (disco) in reply to Matt_Westwood
    Matt_Westwood:
    I wasn't allowed to take any of my annual leave at all that year.

    That sounds entirely illegal, especially so if they also didn't allow you to carry it over to the next year or take paid compensation instead. The best rule of thumb in these things is never ever trust what your manager or HR say on this matter. If you think you're getting a raw deal, talk to a lawyer or your union.

    For comparison, we have a strict limit on the number of hours per week anyone can be directly asked to work (for anyone below the level of professor) and strict rules on the minimum number of leave days; we're more likely to be complained at for not taking enough. :smile:

  • Yamikuronue (disco) in reply to tenshino
    Comment held for moderation.
  • FrostCat (disco) in reply to Matt_Westwood
    Matt_Westwood:
    workers in IT seem to take it for granted that they have to work unpaid overtime.

    That's actually widely the case in the US, too. But in my current job it was specifically stated during the interview process that the company's by and large a 40-hour shop. My previous job was--generally--40 hours, except that about 1 week in 8 I was on call as the after-hours helpdesk, rotating with some other people. The only thing that sucked about that was that the hourlies got bonus pay, but the salarieds didn't. Before that I was a contractor and didn't get overtime per se but did get paid for hours in excess of 40.

  • FrostCat (disco) in reply to Matt_Westwood
    Matt_Westwood:
    I had slogged in 5 miles on foot to get there (buses had been cancelled) because I was told I had no choice or I would have my salary docked

    I would've asked whoever told me that if they were coming to my place to drive me in to the office, because otherwise the labor board or whatever'd be getting a phone call. That would've taken care of the "office was locked" bit, too.

    Matt_Westwood:
    , I wasn't allowed to take any of my annual leave at all that year.

    I wouldn't put up with that either, frankly. I mean, at my current job I've never used up all my vacation time either, but it's always been my fault for not taking enough of it, not because I'm not allowed to.

    When my wife was pregnant and I had to take a lot of half-days to take her to doctor's visits--on a weekly basis, the last trimester--my boss told me I needed to get my priorities straight, one day. I told him I already had them that way and that was the last time he said anything like that.

  • HardwareGeek (disco) in reply to FrostCat
    FrostCat:
    my boss told me I needed to get my priorities straight, one day. I told him I already had them that way

    :+1:

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