The Daily WTF: Curious Perversions in Information Technology

2006-06-15 Reply Admin

Are you suggesting that black boxes migrate? Perhaps they are the chaos from which all other code emerges. They take no imput and generate no output? I write imaginary code sometimes as well.

OneFactor · 2006-06-15 Reply Admin

Maxim Rouiller:
Alex Papadimoulis:
Lead: Hmm ... well, the source code for that component is no longer available.

Wow... source code is vanishing as well as all documentation.

That's an X-File case!

Source managment solutions were invented for that I think.

Mulder: I'm telling you, the source-code is out there, on a recycled-PC - it was responsible for these... COM objects.
Scully: There is no such thing as source-code. Look at the evidence. All we've found are these COM objects. All our investigations turn up nothing but COM objects. Ever heard of Occam's Razor? Use the simplest explanation that fits the facts. To explain the evidence, there is absolutely no reason to invent fictitious PC's which hold imaginary text files to create these COM objects. Make the theory fit the facts, not the other way around.
Mulder: You just don't believe... in CVS
Scully: there you go again, inventing even more crazy theories to bolster your pipe dream of finding not just source code, but entire repositories of it.

2006-06-15 Reply Admin

...this would have been a large help in understanding what it was I was rambling about....

marvin_rabbit:
JBL:
Cooper:
Alex Papadimoulis:

Several years back, Steve Woloshen was introduced to a new programming concept called Black Box Black-Boxing....

Look you wishy washy liberals - sooner or later ya gotta take a stand,.

Either it is Black Boxy or it is not Black Boxy.

If it IS Black Boxy then you are not supposed to ever have access to the insides ever again. Shouldn't even be able to call it and look at the output. Or use it.

In fact, there shouldn't even be any output.

Or input, for that matter.

How can you expect any security if you're allowed to input and output stuff?

And anybody who violates the CLEAR policy regarding non-documentation, non-source code and non-repository will be arrested and turned over to Homeland Security as an example.

Do you love your country or not?

Input is OK. Black holes have plenty, our black box can stand a little (with the appropriate " >> /dev/null" somewhere inside). Some output is OK too, as long as it's completely random (a la Hawking radiation) and bears no relationship to the input whatsoever. (A DHS org chart would suffice.)

Just to push the analogy a little further, the matter (developers) spinning around the black box may heat up to millions of degrees and create a lot of turbulence before getting sucked in.

If the Black Box has no input and no output, then the source code is neither available nor unavailable, but in an indeterminate third state.

2006-06-15 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
Welcome to the real world. Some places mean it when they include "tolerant of ambiguity" in their positions' job skills requirements.

Was this a requirement or a question on a self review? Because there can't possibly be two places that actually had that can there?

Tolerance of Ambiguity (Rate yourself from 1-5). I gave myself both a 1 and 5 and wrote that the question was too ambigious.

HitScan · 2006-06-15 Reply Admin

marvin_rabbit:

If the Black Box has no input and no output, then the source code is neither available nor unavailable, but in an indeterminate third state.

Quantum Source Code. It's simultaneously working and not working, available and missing, until you try to actually feed it any input or use any of it's output. Unlike regular quantum mechanics, quantum source code has a severe bias towards not working and not available.

2006-06-15 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
Anonymous:
What I found fascinating is that they went to all that trouble to make sure disks were completely zero'd when files were deleted, but didn't force developers to use source control, forget about documentation
And whereas it wasn't worth the trouble to avoid losing several thousand Euros/dollars worth of source code, I guess that taking a few CD-R's home was a dismissible offence?

You are, sadly, quite correct.

2006-06-15 Reply Admin

Anonymous:

And they didn't back up the drive.

I think that would have been a violation of security protocol

2006-06-15 Reply Admin

MAYBE

THEY

USED

INVISIBLE

INK

IN

THEIR

DOCUMENTATION?

;-P

I would actually tend to deem this as being quite possible. It is my understanding that doing something like this would help to reduce the file size on the disk.

TankerJoe · 2006-06-15 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
richleick:
Otto:
kipthegreat:
isaphrael:
CVS is a 24hour convenience store, not some kind of magical happy place where people can easily place their sourcecode and then forget about it until the need arises again.
I dont know why people keep recommending that place to me, they only have the deodorant i like, not all the useful sourcecode of my past compiled prjects.

That's funny, our CVS has an entire aisle of source code. Opposite the milk.

That's why I love my CVS so much. They keep the source code at the other end of the liqour aisle. So while it always takes me a while to check out some source, by the time I'm finished, I don't really care anymore anyway.

What's this CVS everyone keeps talking about? The only thing I know of is the Cadillac CTS. Am I in the right forum? Where can I find the documentation so I can figure if I am supposed to be here or not.

Maybe I'll just ask the 8-ball.

"All signs point to yes!"

CVS is stands for cyclic vomiting syndrome. Remember, google is your friend.

And for the slightly dyslexic: community service volunteers.

2006-06-15 Reply Admin

I would have called this pattern Throwing Out the Black Box with the Bathwater.

I've done maintenance on source obtained from decompilers any number of times. Unix masters don't have these things?

2006-06-15 Reply Admin

Usual subjects:
- PDF manuals with lost source
- Company logo withouth SVG file
- Flash withouth fla
- Moron php dev that cypher his code
- etc..

Fun fact:
Most games source code is lost.

nsimeonov · 2006-06-15 Reply Admin

lrb:

The real WTF is a business running software where they don't have a clue what it does. Unfortunately this is all to common. I once was tasked with rewriting an "auditing" accounting package for a major defense contractor that was used to report to the DoD the financials for contracts this division was working on. There was no documentation, no source code version control, and no one knew exactly where the information was supposed to come from, or what was showing up on the reports. And the code was stored all over the company's WAN connected by a series of network linked lists. Fortunately the code was an interpreted language.

Worst project that I ever worked on, and I'll camp in the unemployment line before I'll ever do one like it again.

On the other hand I like challenges and would be happy if you forward those to me :) Everything has a prise, you know... even puzzles like what you're describing.... besides I've seen such nightmares, I doubt something in the IT world may scare me again...

2006-06-15 Reply Admin

HitScan:
Quantum Source Code. It's simultaneously working and not working, available and missing, until you try to actually feed it any input or use any of it's output. Unlike regular quantum mechanics, quantum source code has a severe bias towards not working and not available.

It's explained by the lesser known VonNeumann Uncertainty Principle: You can either know where source code is or you can know how it works but you can't know both at once.

2006-06-15 Reply Admin

I especially love the fact that the original task was to get the Compliance Data. So they could prove how compliant they were to their stringent engineering discipline standards...

2006-06-15 Reply Admin

TomCo:
kipthegreat:
isaphrael:
CVS is a 24hour convenience store, not some kind of magical happy place where people can easily place their sourcecode and then forget about it until the need arises again.

I dont know why people keep recommending that place to me, they only have the deodorant i like, not all the useful sourcecode of my past compiled prjects.

That's funny, our CVS has an entire aisle of source code. Opposite the milk.

I guess that's why CVS is still in business - they have issues keeping current with the milk bills (to the tune of hundreds of thousands). Why those cows keeps giving up their milk for free (or deferred payment), one will never know. :)

It's worse than that. I understand CVS is open source, they give away thier source & milk (and beer) for free!

R.Flowers · 2006-06-15 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
Are you suggesting that black boxes migrate?

Maybe the swallows carry them.

merreborn · 2006-06-15 Reply Admin

TankerJoe:
Anonymous:
CVS is stands for cyclic vomiting syndrome. Remember, google is your friend.
And for the slightly dyslexic: community service volunteers.

One of our projects frequently deals with CSV (comma delimited) files, and uses CVS version control. Every once in a while, I start trying to "CSV commit" my code.

nsimeonov · 2006-06-15 Reply Admin

merreborn:
One of our projects frequently deals with CSV (comma delimited) files, and uses CVS version control. Every once in a while, I start trying to "CSV commit" my code.

Ok was wondering why some people keep typing at command prompt stuff like this when you may automate it using a script or use some GUI - for CVS you have lot of options... or especially for your case there isn't.

Some time ago we created our own program to commit the code, notify the test server about it so it can update and re-compile it there. A simple config file (xml of course) on the server and another on the developer's machine and it was so damn easy to use... The efforts to write this small piece of code paid off in time especially when we were under pressure to quickly fix bugs & test them.

emurphy · 2006-06-16 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
Actually, Alex anonymized quite a bit. The 'system' was a series of daisy chained processes on different platforms, and the source for a critical COM service was gone. The 'hack' was getting them to track back to the systems that used the COM object either by checking documentation (which, as you might guess, was a joke), using a packet sniffer to see where inbound connections came from (and then track those to the calling apps), or just shutting the thing down and seeing what broke.

After several months of political bickering, security decided we couldn't use the sniffer, so we just wound up shutting down the COM process, and in 2 hours, had the list of everything that stopped working. We then just went to the developers of each system, had them search for all calls to the source-less COM object, and figured out the specs for what it was supposed to do like that.

It took 2 days to write a new COM object.

Yes, the new one was documented, and no, they didn't check it into source control (it wasn't my project - I was just helping them out of a jam, so I couldn't do anything about it - except laugh)

Wasn't this a sidebar story some months back?

2006-06-16 Reply Admin

In the days of DOS, one could accomplish this by using delete and undelete.

captcha = java

devdas · 2006-06-16 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
I would have called this pattern Throwing Out the Black Box with the Bathwater.

I've done maintenance on source obtained from decompilers any number of times. Unix masters don't have these things?

The problem was one of identifying the binary. They knew the speed so exactly that they lost track of the location.

xrT · 2006-06-16 Reply Admin

The source code was not lost but burned. You see, Galileo was imprisoned because his writings contradict what Roman churches were teaching... Keep 'em all in your head... :P

And don't try to hide them, they'll still be found sooner or later...

philNewsted · 2006-06-16 Reply Admin

must depend on the worth of the code :)
Maybe we wont put scrap in a locker.

2006-06-16 Reply Admin

OneFactor:
Maxim Rouiller:
Alex Papadimoulis:
Lead: Hmm ... well, the source code for that component is no longer available.

Wow... source code is vanishing as well as all documentation.

That's an X-File case!

Source managment solutions were invented for that I think.

Mulder: I'm telling you, the source-code is out there, on a recycled-PC - it was responsible for these... COM objects.
Scully: There is no such thing as source-code. Look at the evidence. All we've found are these COM objects. All our investigations turn up nothing but COM objects. Ever heard of Occam's Razor? Use the simplest explanation that fits the facts. To explain the evidence, there is absolutely no reason to invent fictitious PC's which hold imaginary text files to create these COM objects. Make the theory fit the facts, not the other way around.
Mulder: You just don't believe... in CVS
Scully: there you go again, inventing even more crazy theories to bolster your pipe dream of finding not just source code, but entire repositories of it.

brilliant.

2006-06-16 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
Bus Raker:

Anonymous:
So, did Steve document his work, and save it properly?

So what does this 'Lead' (pb no pun intended) guy actually do all day? Wouldn't he want to document some of the work his 'team' is doing?

The 'lead' was the manager of the manager who let the rogue developer keep his source on his C: drive without putting it in source control (Alex left out the part that the PC, upon sufficiently aging, was re-blasted and given to a secretary)

oh man.....

2006-06-16 Reply Admin

marvin_rabbit:

If the Black Box has no input and no output, then the source code is neither available nor unavailable, but in an indeterminate third state.

Yep. And it's called FileNotFound

2006-06-16 Reply Admin

TankerJoe:
And for the slightly dyslexic: community service volunteers.

http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?acronym=CVS&string=exact&s=a

2006-06-16 Reply Admin

Zak:
dhromed:

This depends entirely on wether or not the Flame engulfing and Water submerging are, in fact, metaphorical.

There is a good chance there is some kind of expression in the programming world that uses the phrases Flame, Engulf and Sumberge.

I took a moment to think about these terms and how they might be used in programming. Submerge sounds like a good name for something that creates closures, so here's a currying function:

(defun submerge (function &rest args)
(lambda (&rest more-args)
(apply function (append args more-args))))

I'll be sure to post them when I think of what flame and engulf should do. Engulf sounds like it should have something to do with method combination.

Surely 'Flame' should be used as part of a testing strategy for Web Services? For each request, the WS should reply with a derogatory comment about the request parameters or the users mother.

'Engulf' could be used by this WTF's company to handle logging. A simple 'logger.engulf("important message")' will ensure that such important logs are immediately lost and unrecoverable.

Iago · 2006-06-16 Reply Admin

xrT:
You see, Galileo was imprisoned because his writings contradict what Roman churches were teaching...

Of course, insulting the Pope's mistress probably had something to do with it as well.

Ciaran · 2006-06-16 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
Actually, Alex anonymized quite a bit. The 'system' was a series of daisy chained processes on different platforms, and the source for a critical COM service was gone. The 'hack' was getting them to track back to the systems that used the COM object either by checking documentation (which, as you might guess, was a joke), using a packet sniffer to see where inbound connections came from (and then track those to the calling apps), or just shutting the thing down and seeing what broke.

After several months of political bickering, security decided we couldn't use the sniffer, so we just wound up shutting down the COM process, and in 2 hours, had the list of everything that stopped working. We then just went to the developers of each system, had them search for all calls to the source-less COM object, and figured out the specs for what it was supposed to do like that.

It took 2 days to write a new COM object.

Yes, the new one was documented, and no, they didn't check it into source control (it wasn't my project - I was just helping them out of a jam, so I couldn't do anything about it - except laugh)

Does this mean that you were the person behind this post?

warmachine · 2006-06-16 Reply Admin

When my current company was fledgling, the lead programmer refused to add his projects to VSS, despite that the other programmers did. Yes, he refused. I kid you not. Although he left before I arrived, the story must be true as I was the one who put the source into VSS.

tufty · 2006-06-16 Reply Admin

nsimeonov:
Some time ago we created our own program to commit the code, notify the test server about it so it can update and re-compile it there. A simple config file (xml of course) on the server and another on the developer's machine and it was so damn easy to use... The efforts to write this small piece of code paid off in time especially when we were under pressure to quickly fix bugs & test them.

Would this not have been easier using a cvs postcommit script?

Set up a "build" user on the cvs server, with key-based ssh to the build server, then kick off something like this:

ssh build@buildserver build.sh

Just asking, like.

Simon

RayS · 2006-06-16 Reply Admin

I bet the reason that there's no source code or documentation is because of some lame company wide security audit.

PHB: So what's this 'source code' stuff here about then?

Dev: It's what our software is made of.

PHB: So how does that work?

Dev: Well we download it all to our computers and we can make a complete copy of our software from it.

PHB: So... if our competitors were to get ahold of it what would happen?

Dev: Well they could do the same thing.

PHB:...... OMG WTF LOL BBQ!!!! You must delete it all. Delete it all right now!!!

Dev: Errr, I don't think that's a smart ide...

PHB: ARE YOU A SPY OR SOMETHING?? Delete it before they steal it and put us out of business!

Dev: Well we need it to make our software!

PHB: But don't we already have a working copy of our software?

Dev: Yes, but....

PHB: Then we don't need it! Delete it all now or you're fired. And don't make any more of it!

(later)

PHB: What's this 'documentation' stuff all about?

Dev2: It documents our systems, so by reading it we can tell how everything works. We've worked really hard on it, and something went wrong with our source control, it'd be easy for us to figure it all out, and reproduce any part of the system quickly and easily.

PHB: .............................DELETE IT!!!!

2006-06-16 Reply Admin

This can be a workaround for the problem:

compress your src into a zip file

zip src/* src.zip

then concate the exe/dll file with the zip file:

copy my.exe+src.zip resultingfile.exe

The side effect is.. now you need a time machine to do this. But maybe theres one cheap in eBay.

--Tei
note: untested idea

captcha: pacman <--humm ..what you mean?

2006-06-16 Reply Admin

This reminds me of a story I once heard about a company that lost a major part of its project documentation, because someone thought it would be a good idea to file it in some conveniently available cardboard boxes labeled "trash".

2006-06-16 Reply Admin

Is this the old "ICE" project Steve?

2006-06-16 Reply Admin

I don't understand, how can source code suddenly "not be available"?

2006-06-16 Reply Admin

emurphy:
Anonymous:

Actually, Alex anonymized quite a bit. The 'system' was a series of daisy chained processes on different platforms, and the source for a critical COM service was gone. The 'hack' was getting them to track back to the systems that used the COM object either by checking documentation (which, as you might guess, was a joke), using a packet sniffer to see where inbound connections came from (and then track those to the calling apps), or just shutting the thing down and seeing what broke.

After several months of political bickering, security decided we couldn't use the sniffer, so we just wound up shutting down the COM process, and in 2 hours, had the list of everything that stopped working. We then just went to the developers of each system, had them search for all calls to the source-less COM object, and figured out the specs for what it was supposed to do like that.

It took 2 days to write a new COM object.

Yes, the new one was documented, and no, they didn't check it into source control (it wasn't my project - I was just helping them out of a jam, so I couldn't do anything about it - except laugh)

Wasn't this a sidebar story some months back?

Yes, but given some of the other posts, I never figured Alex would post this one on the front page...

2006-06-16 Reply Admin

Ciaran:
Anonymous:

Actually, Alex anonymized quite a bit. The 'system' was a series of daisy chained processes on different platforms, and the source for a critical COM service was gone. The 'hack' was getting them to track back to the systems that used the COM object either by checking documentation (which, as you might guess, was a joke), using a packet sniffer to see where inbound connections came from (and then track those to the calling apps), or just shutting the thing down and seeing what broke.

After several months of political bickering, security decided we couldn't use the sniffer, so we just wound up shutting down the COM process, and in 2 hours, had the list of everything that stopped working. We then just went to the developers of each system, had them search for all calls to the source-less COM object, and figured out the specs for what it was supposed to do like that.

It took 2 days to write a new COM object.

Yes, the new one was documented, and no, they didn't check it into source control (it wasn't my project - I was just helping them out of a jam, so I couldn't do anything about it - except laugh)

Does this mean that you were the person behind this post?

Yes it does - never figured it would make the front page (not sure whether to be happy or sad)

2006-06-16 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
Is this the old "ICE" project Steve?

No - an entirely different project at another company

2006-06-16 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
I don't understand, how can source code suddenly "not be available"?

Apparently the COM object was stable, and running quietly, so nobody noticed that nothing had ever been put into source control, *until* they needed to add some functionality. It wasn't my project - I just got called in to help them figure out a way to get out from under.

2006-06-16 Reply Admin

warmachine:
When my current company was fledgling, the lead programmer refused to add his projects to VSS, despite that the other programmers did. Yes, he refused. I kid you not. Although he left before I arrived, the story must be true as I was the one who put the source into VSS.

Actually, if I were the lead programmer I would refuse to add my project to VSS as well. It's for a reason that VSS second name is "Visual Source UnSafe" [1, 2] - usually your source is less safe than a series of numbered backups on a CD or any other storage medium. Maybe that's the reason even Microsoft does not use it. Reportedly, things should be better with VSS 2005, but I'd rather keep my fingers far far away from that beast.

Now, if we're talking about a serious source control system (be it open source or commercial), that's a different story.

regards

fg

[1] http://www.highprogrammer.com/alan/windev/sourcesafe.html
[2] http://www.michaelbolton.net/testing/VSSDefects.html

2006-06-16 Reply Admin

No code repository, only a shared network drive
A sechedule that practically mandates working from home
The VPN from Hell - Windows Explorer would time out if I tried to access the drive before 10:00PM

And so, with only one bug left to fix, they decided I was no longer needed.
The code on the server is six months out of date, so I hope they didn't give my laptop to a secretary 8-D

TankerJoe · 2006-06-16 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
TankerJoe:
And for the slightly dyslexic: community service volunteers.

http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?acronym=CVS&string=exact&s=a

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyslexia

Gene Wirchenko · 2006-06-16 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
This reminds me of a story I once heard about a company that lost a major part of its project documentation, because someone thought it would be a good idea to file it in some conveniently available cardboard boxes labeled "trash".

In one office that I worked at, some mining exploration guys put a bunch of their rolled-up maps in a handy container more commonly called a wastebasket. They put a note on it not to throw out the maps. The cleaning lady did not read English. After the debacle, they forbade wastebaskets in their area.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

masklinn · 2006-06-16 Reply Admin

nsimeonov:
merreborn:
One of our projects frequently deals with CSV (comma delimited) files, and uses CVS version control. Every once in a while, I start trying to "CSV commit" my code.

Ok was wondering why some people keep typing at command prompt stuff like this when you may automate it using a script or use some GUI - for CVS you have lot of options... or especially for your case there isn't.

Some time ago we created our own program to commit the code, notify the test server about it so it can update and re-compile it there. A simple config file (xml of course) on the server and another on the developer's machine and it was so damn easy to use... The efforts to write this small piece of code paid off in time especially when we were under pressure to quickly fix bugs & test them.

You're joking right?

Aren't you aware that CVS has these handy little things called triggers that you can use to automagically start actions on the server?

And you wrote a whole application and force your devs to use that instead of their regular CVS client just to replicate triggers functionality?

2006-06-16 Reply Admin

Gene Wirchenko:
Anonymous:
This reminds me of a story I once heard about a company that lost a major part of its project documentation, because someone thought it would be a good idea to file it in some conveniently available cardboard boxes labeled "trash".

In one office that I worked at, some mining exploration guys put a bunch of their rolled-up maps in a handy container more commonly called a wastebasket. They put a note on it not to throw out the maps. The cleaning lady did not read English. After the debacle, they forbade wastebaskets in their area.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

With waste baskets banned, how did they throw out the waste baskets?

Steeldragon · 2006-06-16 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
Gene Wirchenko:
Anonymous:
This reminds me of a story I once heard about a company that lost a major part of its project documentation, because someone thought it would be a good idea to file it in some conveniently available cardboard boxes labeled "trash".

In one office that I worked at, some mining exploration guys put a bunch of their rolled-up maps in a handy container more commonly called a wastebasket. They put a note on it not to throw out the maps. The cleaning lady did not read English. After the debacle, they forbade wastebaskets in their area.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

With waste baskets banned, how did they throw out the waste baskets?

Thats a good question

WWWWolf · 2006-06-17 Reply Admin

Maxim Rouiller:
Wow... source code is vanishing as well as all documentation.

That's an X-File case!

X-Files, Season 10, episode 1, "evilincarnate.o":

Mulder and Scully discover remnants of a.out object files on a forgotten secret government data warehouse MicroVAX, apparently causing mysterious data-poltergeist phenomena on a Windows Vista Beta network on the other side of the world. Also, Mulder discovers another paranormal phenomenon: if you pile 4096 X-Files DVDs on top of a laptop, the screen gets damaged!

(Okay, the latter part is just an update of a really old joke to the DVD era.)

2006-06-19 Reply Admin

marvin_rabbit:
If the Black Box has no input and no output, then the source code is neither available nor unavailable, but in an indeterminate third state.

Wait a minute, are we talking about the source code TO the black box (i.e. instructions as to how to generate an identical black box), or some source code INSIDE the black box???

Oh, now I get it. They use a Black Box as their source-code control repository, INSTEAD of CVS! Small wonder they can't seem to retrieve their source code ever again...

Black Box Black-Boxing

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