• (cs) in reply to Drew
    Drew:
    Chris:
    1. not all linux distros are free 2. your claim is TRWTF. IF, and it's a big if, you are willing to take the time to properly setup a linux box, it is easier than any other system, but out of the box, mac wins, closely followed by windows.

    Get three identical brand new computers. Remove the manufacturer's preformatted hard disks and install three identical blank disks. Install Windows on one, MacOS on the next and Linux on the third. Yes you can start them in that order; the Linux install will still be done first. It'll boot and log in faster too.

    The thing is, most Windows and Mac users pay someone else to do the install, so they think it is easy and "just works" "right out of the box". And if you want to pay someone, you can get Linux that way too.

    My Windows installs take three minutes and they boot in seconds. The retail install of Windows intentionally uses the slowest method to increase compatibility.

    When I shop for Windows systems, I simply buy the hardware I want. When I shop for Linux systems, I have to be much pickier with hardware due to compatibility issues. I know they get better every year, but setting up something like a MythTV box is only easy if you spend hours shopping. Unfortunately, many of these issues are unfixable as some hardware vendors refuse to be open enough to allow their drivers to be distributed with a GPL'ed OS.

  • Drew (unregistered) in reply to Jaime
    Jaime:
    My Windows installs take three minutes and they boot in seconds.
    That's fantastic! I didn't know you were allowed to make your own Windows distro. Would you mind publishing it so we can all benefit from your work?
  • ÃÆâ€â„ (unregistered) in reply to Dude
    Dude:
    On the plus side, if we were able to talk everyone into using Linux, this website wouldn't have so much great content.
    Less great content? That would be a good thing?
    Chris:
    and yes, I know 10.04 starts up quickly, but damn does it look ugly, and i've heard it doesn't play nice with older versions of gnome.
    You can apply custom themes, you know. Unless you mean another way it looks ugly. And how old do you want your gnome to be?
  • Chris (unregistered) in reply to Drew
    Jaime:
    My Windows installs take three minutes and they boot in seconds.

    Which release? I recently setup a vm of windows 95 for laughs (no i don't remember why) and that took under 3 minutes, but you can't seriously expect us to believe a post 2000 install will take under 3 minutes.

  • Chris (unregistered) in reply to ÃÆâ€â„
    ÃÆâ€â„:
    You can apply custom themes, you know. Unless you mean another way it looks ugly. And how old do you want your gnome to be?

    Yes I know there are custom themes, but like I said earlier, I see no "must have" features in version 10, and no need to upgrade. What would be my motivation to upgrade, other than the sake of upgrading?

  • (cs) in reply to Drew
    Drew:
    Jaime:
    My Windows installs take three minutes and they boot in seconds.
    That's fantastic! I didn't know you were allowed to make your own Windows distro. Would you mind publishing it so we can all benefit from your work?
    Microsoft supplies tools for enterprise distribution of Windows. They range from simple tools like Sysprep that is used in conjuction with a drive imaging program, to automation tools that can script the install, to entire imaging system using services that come with Windows Server 2008. One of the things I do for a side job is to maintain the computers at a training center. I do thousands of installs a year. None of these tools are a secret, you can download them from Microsoft directly: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=696dd665-9f76-4177-a811-39c26d3b3b34
  • (cs) in reply to Chris
    Chris:
    Jaime:
    My Windows installs take three minutes and they boot in seconds.

    Which release? I recently setup a vm of windows 95 for laughs (no i don't remember why) and that took under 3 minutes, but you can't seriously expect us to believe a post 2000 install will take under 3 minutes.

    I can boot from a BartPE disk and image XP SP3 in three minutes. XP can be trimmed down to about a 1.5GB image. Imaging isn't cheating, most Linux installs start by uncompressing the entire OS to the drive.

  • nythrix (unregistered) in reply to ÆÃ
    ÆÃ:
    MONTH/DAY/YEAR

    Because calendars are organized by month/day, not by day/month.

    Umm no. Calendars are organized by year/month/day. So it doesn't make sense anyway. But, please, do continue...

  • Bert Glanstron (unregistered)

    Dear ÆÃ,

    In case you can’t tell, this is a grown-up place. The fact that you insist on using your ridiculous handle clearly shows that you’re too young and too stupid to be using FIDONet.

    Go away and grow up.

    Sincerely, Bert Glanstron

  • (cs)

    I use and develop for Mac, Win, and Linux, and honestly have about the same amount of trouble with all 3 in terms of crashes, incompatibility, etc. across many, many machines.

    The only difference that matters to me is I don't have to shell out cash for the mistreatment I get from Linux.

  • Nutz (unregistered) in reply to Bert Glanstron
    Bert Glanstron:
    Dear ÆÃ,

    In case you can’t tell, this is a grown-up place. The fact that you insist on using your ridiculous handle clearly shows that you’re too young and too stupid to be using FIDONet.

    Go away and grow up.

    Sincerely, Bert Glanstron

    +1

  • Drew (unregistered) in reply to Jaime
    Jaime:
    Drew:
    Jaime:
    My Windows installs take three minutes and they boot in seconds.
    That's fantastic! I didn't know you were allowed to make your own Windows distro. Would you mind publishing it so we can all benefit from your work?
    Microsoft supplies tools for enterprise distribution of Windows. They range from simple tools like Sysprep that is used in conjuction with a drive imaging program, to automation tools that can script the install, to entire imaging system using services that come with Windows Server 2008. One of the things I do for a side job is to maintain the computers at a training center. I do thousands of installs a year. None of these tools are a secret, you can download them from Microsoft directly: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=696dd665-9f76-4177-a811-39c26d3b3b34
    Oh but I don't want to bother learning something like you antisocial computer geeks, or doing the work myself. I need something that "just works".

    You teased me with a claim of a 3 minute Windows install, but won't back it up by showing your work. Why's that? Oh yes your overlord won't let you share. We all have to recreate what you (say you) did.

  • tel (unregistered) in reply to Keloran

    Everyone knows that the magic number is CAFE BABE, not to be confused with the babe at the cafe.

  • (cs) in reply to Borken
    Borken:
    Let's see: the Windows 7 error simply states the obvious, whereas the Mac makes contradictory statements.

    TRWTF is not using Linux.

    When you can't get something to work in Linux, people think you're making things complicated.

    When you can't get something to work on a Mac, people think you're just stupid.

    When you can't get something to work on Windows, people tell you to use Linux.

  • Borken (unregistered) in reply to joeyadams

    And once you've used Linux, you understand why.

  • sheldon (unregistered) in reply to ÆÃ
    ÆÃ:
    MONTH/DAY/YEAR

    Because calendars are organized by month/day, not by day/month.

    I thought it was because that's how it is pronounced in English, e.g. "May ninth, 2010" -- 05/09/2010.

  • (cs) in reply to Drew
    Drew:
    Jaime:
    Drew:
    Jaime:
    My Windows installs take three minutes and they boot in seconds.
    That's fantastic! I didn't know you were allowed to make your own Windows distro. Would you mind publishing it so we can all benefit from your work?
    Microsoft supplies tools for enterprise distribution of Windows. They range from simple tools like Sysprep that is used in conjuction with a drive imaging program, to automation tools that can script the install, to entire imaging system using services that come with Windows Server 2008. One of the things I do for a side job is to maintain the computers at a training center. I do thousands of installs a year. None of these tools are a secret, you can download them from Microsoft directly: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=696dd665-9f76-4177-a811-39c26d3b3b34
    Oh but I don't want to bother learning something like you antisocial computer geeks, or doing the work myself. I need something that "just works".

    You teased me with a claim of a 3 minute Windows install, but won't back it up by showing your work. Why's that? Oh yes your overlord won't let you share. We all have to recreate what you (say you) did.

    It "just works" if you are willing to wait 25 minutes for an install. If you have 100 installs ahead of you next week, you can optimize your work by putting in a little effort. I'm not sharing because this isn't some big secret. Try this:

    http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=windows+xp+image+sysprep

    or this:

    http://blog-infotech.com/2010/04/installing-windows-xp-in-five-minutes.html

  • Robin Lavallée (unregistered)

    The only common sense to write date is to follow the standard of time, which goes from less precise to more precise: HH::MM::SS.ddd where HH = Hours MM = Minutes SS = Seconds ddd = Decimals

    Using that convention, it follows that dates should be written: YYYY/MM/DD

    This format also provides lexical sorting for strings.

    Robin

  • (cs) in reply to Keloran
    Keloran:
    Everyone knows that 3 is the magic number
    I thought it was 42.
  • (cs) in reply to Robin Lavallée
    Robin Lavallée:
    The only common sense to write date is to follow the standard of time, which goes from less precise to more precise: HH::MM::SS.ddd where HH = Hours MM = Minutes SS = Seconds ddd = Decimals

    Using that convention, it follows that dates should be written: YYYY/MM/DD

    This format also provides lexical sorting for strings.

    Robin

    I wonder if people who hold this viewpoint strongly tend to work with development tools and architectures that only provide a machanism to sort the presentation of the data, instead of sorting the data and then presenting it. I would guess that a strong believer in MVC would look at this as a trivial issue, while someone that writes a lot of bash scripts would treat this as a big deal.

    Personally, it's been at least ten years since the presentation and sorting of data have been interrelated in my development work. I can't recall an instance where a formatting change broke sorting.

  • (cs) in reply to Jaime
    Jaime:
    Unfortunately, many of these issues are unfixable as some hardware vendors refuse to be open enough to allow their drivers to be distributed with a GPL'ed OS.

    <rant>Which, BTW, is utterly ridiculous: It's in their interest to sell as much hardware as possible by letting the buyer run it on a toaster (if possible and that's what the buyer wants).

    When a customer goes somewhere else because the company is afraid a driver might be copied: Well, all that means is they lost a sale.</rant>

    Their privilege, I guess.

  • PinkyAndTheBrainFan187 (unregistered) in reply to SR
    SR:
    SR:
    L. Aughter:
    TRWTF is spelling it "Labor"

    That's how it's spelled.

    FTFY

    TRRWTF is that you colonials still don't know how to fucking spell. If you're really intent on bastardising a language maybe you could start over with Welsh, it seems to be pretty fucked up already. Besides, Labour Party is a proper noun. Not that I suspect that means anything to you ignorant cretins. How did you even manage to get mummy and daddy's modem to work?

    Captcha: causa "I'ma mad causa youse bums don'ta know how to spell. Mamma mia!"

  • Brian (unregistered) in reply to sheldon
    sheldon:
    ÆÃ:
    MONTH/DAY/YEAR

    Because calendars are organized by month/day, not by day/month.

    I thought it was because that's how it is pronounced in English, e.g. "May ninth, 2010" -- 05/09/2010.
    I don't know what freakish moon language you speak, but in English it's "the ninth of May, 2010".

  • CodeMacho (unregistered)

    TRWTF is Mac referring to Enter key as Return and require to type it

  • Anonymous (unregistered)

    TRWTF are guys trying to turn this into the 10000000-th OS discussion.

    That discussion was

  • sheldon (unregistered) in reply to Coyne
    Coyne:
    <rant>Which, BTW, is utterly ridiculous: It's in their interest to sell as much hardware as possible by letting the buyer run it on a toaster (if possible and that's what the buyer wants).

    When a customer goes somewhere else because the company is afraid a driver might be copied: Well, all that means is they lost a sale.</rant>

    It's not that ridiculous I think, linux is used on just 2% of the desktops, so it doesn't make sense for a company to double its driver development costs to support linux.

  • Captain Normal Form (unregistered) in reply to bob
    bob:
    TRRWTF is that USAians, instead of using the logical dmy or the logical and easy-to-sort-by ymd, use the completely random mixture of mdy. Is it most significant order or reverse most significant order? Neither! Maybe it's "metric".

    The Real WTF is everybody. Everybody who refuses to use ss:mm:hh notation for keeping time, and ss:mm:hh:dd:MM:YYYY notation for keeping dates. WTF is up with people using hh:mm:ss DD:MM:YY or other such non-sense! Is it most significant order or reverse most significant order? Neither! Maybe it's "customary".

  • Grumpy (unregistered) in reply to Enterprise Architect
    Enterprise Architect:
    Borken:
    Let's see: the Windows 7 error simply states the obvious, whereas the Mac makes contradictory statements.

    TRWTF is not using Linux.

    TRWTF is Linux, where programs just disappear without any error message.

    Oh, nonono, they don't, not by far. They scream far and wide and for PAGES about what they think is wrong with the world and their place in it. So that I, the user, can debug and correct the program. Sure I can. Of course. NFW...

    Oh, you mean in the GUI. Yes, it rather looks that way sometimes, doesn't it? There's a log viewer. Try that some time and you'll find new grounds for despair.

    Captcha: plaga - and a pox to boot.

  • Anon (unregistered) in reply to Anonymous
    Anonymous:
    TRWTF are guys trying to turn this into the 10000000-th OS discussion.

    That discussion was

    Yeah, but this time I'm sure we're going to solve it. Everybody will agree and all will be good with the world.

  • Sam (unregistered) in reply to bob
    bob:
    TRRWTF is that USAians, instead of using the logical dmy or the logical and easy-to-sort-by ymd, use the completely random mixture of mdy. Is it most significant order or reverse most significant order? Neither! Maybe it's "metric".

    If dmy is so logical, then why don't non-USAians use ss:mi:hh for their time? That's reverse most significant order too, yet when I was in Europe, I did not see one single clock display that it was 45:30:13.

    We use the most significant order, except that we don't care much about the year and just tack it onto the end. When I'm doing day-to-day work that all consists of dates with the same year, I use mm/dd with no year. When I am putting dates in filenames to sort, I use yyyy-mm-dd.

    That's why we use a comma when writing the date in long form, It is August 14 (most to least significant order) in the year 2010. August 14, 2010.

  • valczir (unregistered) in reply to Enterprise Architect
    Enterprise Architect:
    Borken:
    Let's see: the Windows 7 error simply states the obvious, whereas the Mac makes contradictory statements.

    TRWTF is not using Linux.

    TRWTF is Linux, where programs just disappear without any error message.

    TRWTF is people who use ubuntu and think it's the same thing as the linux that everyone else talks about.

    If you're getting no error messages, then either you're using software that is not ready for normal use (something ubuntu is infamous for - see ubuntu and KDE 4.0) or you're using a program that started out as a command line program, and thus logs its errors in syslog and/or the command line.

    Note that Adobe Flash would be included under the heading "software that is not ready for normal use" - Flash on linux makes Windows look almost stable by comparison.

    I'm running gentoo and even with extremely unstable packages (i.e. I'm using the development version of Amarok 2.3 - the version that the developers are still working on), I have very, very seldom (I can't even remember a single occasion) had a runtime (make special note of the word runtime - I have had compile time errors) error that didn't involve flash.

  • Anonymous (unregistered) in reply to Sam
    Sam:
    That's why we use a comma when writing the date in long form, It is August 14 (most to least significant order) in the year 2010. August 14, 2010.

    That also follows that standard reversal of clauses or names in English. For example, phone books list "Given-Name Surname" as "Surname, Given-Name" for ordering purposes.

    Other titles and names exhibit this pattern of "item, modifier" or "more significant piece, less significant piece" where "modifier item" is the more-commonly-used phrasing: "mustard, yellow"; "range, electric"; etc.

  • The 2-Belo (unregistered) in reply to Matt Westwood
    Matt Westwood:
    XChickenFarmer:
    We used to do that at a shirt factory where I worked. Moving the buttonholes is hard!

    I have encountered species of shirt whose differentiation into male/female occurs significantly later into its gestation, in which there are buttonholes on each side (although they are rudimentary, unopened ones on the same side as where the buttons have developed). This should make application of the gender change request significantly more streamlined, as there would then be no need to add the stitching round the new buttonholes.

    Now, some West African shirts have been known to spontaneously change sex from male to female in a single sex environment.

    Malcolm was right. Look!

    The shirts... are breeding. Life... found a way.

  • (cs) in reply to fjf
    fjf:
    #2: Obviously Groundhog Day.

    I got you babe

  • Kempeth (unregistered)

    The T-shirt guy should look on the internet. There's a website that does that thing expertly...

  • Pfew (unregistered)

    Syntax error : the application #has been#. So will we.

  • neelesh (unregistered) in reply to XChickenFarmer
    XChickenFarmer:
    We used to do that at a shirt factory where I worked. Moving the buttonholes is hard!

    If you had used a shirt factory factory with an XML, it would be really easy. No, really, it would be easy.

  • (cs) in reply to Just me
    Just me:
    That's almost a rolling release. One LTS version per 1000 years.
    Putting the L into LTS!
  • wds (unregistered) in reply to Anon
    Anon:
    Anonymous:
    TRWTF are guys trying to turn this into the 10000000-th OS discussion.

    That discussion was

    Yeah, but this time I'm sure we're going to solve it. Everybody will agree and all will be good with the world.

    I'm starting to think some people here got lost on their way to slashdot (where are the mac fanboys btw, surprisingly thin on the ground here).

    Anyway, all software is crap. If you don't believe that about linux, you've clearly never read any open source code. If you don't believe that about windows, you've clearly never tried to code to Microsoft's APIs (I'm sure the code behind it is equally WTFish).

    All this talk just goes to prove that people get ridiculously religious about the silliest things and then turn their brains off when talking about it.

  • (cs) in reply to Robin Lavallée
    Robin Lavallée:
    The only common sense to write date is to follow the standard of time, which goes from less precise to more precise: HH::MM::SS.ddd where HH = Hours MM = Minutes SS = Seconds ddd = Decimals

    Using that convention, it follows that dates should be written: YYYY/MM/DD

    This format also provides lexical sorting for strings.

    Robin

    What about the decamillennium bug in the year 10,000?

    Perhaps we should all switch to ARRALPHALET for dates.

    Or maybe adopt the French idea of using a metric calendar.

  • The Nerve (unregistered) in reply to wds
    wds:
    Anon:
    Anonymous:
    TRWTF are guys trying to turn this into the 10000000-th OS discussion.

    That discussion was

    Yeah, but this time I'm sure we're going to solve it. Everybody will agree and all will be good with the world.

    I'm starting to think some people here got lost on their way to slashdot (where are the mac fanboys btw, surprisingly thin on the ground here).

    Anyway, all software is crap. If you don't believe that about linux, you've clearly never read any open source code. If you don't believe that about windows, you've clearly never tried to code to Microsoft's APIs (I'm sure the code behind it is equally WTFish).

    All this talk just goes to prove that people get ridiculously religious about the silliest things and then turn their brains off when talking about it.

    That's part of the reason why Linux zealots mention very little about the software. I am only a moderate zealot, as I feel like the mainstream user has to be able to use the system without having to resort to typing and modifying config files. Ubuntu has brought that kind of life to an operating system that has already had superior scheduling, tools, and network support.

    Unfortunately, it's difficult to have a pure OS discussion about Linux because the zealotry, because of the argument of Open-Source Software and its value, and because of the disagreement over the need to cater to "soft-core" users.

  • dan (unregistered) in reply to Cbuttius
    Cbuttius:
    by:
    TRWTF is that the shirt cost $999

    where does it say the price is in US dollars?

    Presumably the same place that you assumed that $ must mean US $

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar#Economies_currently_using_the_dollar

  • C (unregistered) in reply to The Druid of Oz
    The Druid of Oz:
    ORLY?:
    Linux:

    TRWTF is programs crashing with no error messages. TRWTF is kernel panics from plugging in USB devices. TRWTF is having to manage complex config files just to play a game or run a web site TRWTF is having to compile...ANYTHING. TRWTF is shitty piss poor drivers. TRWTF is Linux.

    OK I know you're a flaming troll, but just in case some innocent bystanders are fooled by your tirade, I just had to step in and say I've been using Linux about 12 hours a day for the past several years and I've never experienced any of your gripes.

    P.S. you don't run a web site, you view it. If you're letting the whole goddamn internet have control of your browser, you're begging to get raped. Regardless of OS.

    No silent crashes? No compiling?! Then WTH are you using that Linux for? Its screensaver?

    "P.S." The original expression was correct; in this context, running a web site simply means publishing its contents to be available online. I suppose that's just another major use of Linux that you've not yet had a need for knowing about.

  • vydf (unregistered)

    Bring back Mandatory Fun Day! 't was funnier than these OS flamewars.

  • dan (unregistered) in reply to Anon
    GM:
    Windows: a Dodge Ram (looks nice, has some truck features, but really not made for real work) Mac: Golf Cart (quiet, easy to use [only one pedal!], but I wouldn't try to take it on the freeway)

    Linux: Chevy Silverado (bullet-proof, can handle anything you throw at it, inexpensive)

    or rather: Linux: TVR (a hobby not a car; will spend at least half it's life in pieces on your driveway).

    ...and I use linux myself, I'm no windows fanboy

  • dan (unregistered) in reply to C
    C:
    The Druid of Oz:
    ORLY?:
    Linux:

    TRWTF is having to manage complex config files just to play a game or run a web site

    P.S. you don't run a web site, you view it. If you're letting the whole goddamn internet have control of your browser, you're begging to get raped. Regardless of OS.

    "P.S." The original expression was correct; in this context, running a web site simply means publishing its contents to be available online. I suppose that's just another major use of Linux that you've not yet had a need for knowing about.

    lol

  • (cs) in reply to Bert Glanstron

    Until I posted this here "Bert Glanstron Cheese" was a Google Whack. I claim a prize.

  • Dan (unregistered) in reply to tel
    tel:
    Everyone knows that the magic number is CAFE BABE, not to be confused with the babe at the cafe.

    Except on 64-bit AIX it's badc0ffee0ddf00d

  • ÃÆâ€â„ (unregistered) in reply to Chris
    Chris:
    ÃÆâ€â„:
    You can apply custom themes, you know. Unless you mean another way it looks ugly. And how old do you want your gnome to be?

    Yes I know there are custom themes, but like I said earlier, I see no "must have" features in version 10, and no need to upgrade. What would be my motivation to upgrade, other than the sake of upgrading?

    You know, it's because of thinking like that that IE6 is STILL used by a lot of people. If some incredible tool comes out on a later Ubuntu release that increases productivity for just about everyone that uses it, you'll be the guy that says, "I don't see why it's a must have feature. I can do it in terminal. I don't see why I should upgrade if my only reason to upgrade is just for the sake of upgrading." "Why should I get IE8? I can still use IE6. I don't see must have features on IE8. I don't want to upgrade for the sake of upgrading."

  • Jay (unregistered)

    At least shirts do logically come in male and female. In case you hadn't noticed, we are shaped differently.

    I was in an office supply store the other day and they had a sign that said "Pens for Men" and "Pens for Women". That would had me puzzled. I was in a hurry at the time and didn't have a chance to stop and check how they were actually different.

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