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Admin
judging by the apparent quality of the IT managers...it probably is and you just don't know it yet
Admin
Wow. Makes you wonder...
If it had been an unfinished hospital would they have *installed* the patients before the construction was finished?
Grandpa make a worthy sawhorse until he wakes up.
This points to the need for industry and colleges to produce a crop of construction *technicians*. Skilled in both saws and servers.
Admin
You want reciprocating/sabre/sawzall stories, you got 'em.
So, there I am in the early '90s, see, living in a converted garage space (2400 sq feet, cement floor, rollup door, builtin lofts) with a couple roommates, including a kid whose father was a sleazy contractor of some repute. One day he finds a parking meter loose in the sidewalk cement, so he hoists it, brings it home, sticks a metal-cutting blade in the Sawzall, and voila -- $40 in change! The change, for the record, was actually in a hard plastic cylinder housing within the metal, but the saw went through that like butter. The metal actually took a while.
He was 19, maybe. You can't blame him for repeating this trick every time he found a loose parking meter. The noise of such a saw cutting through the surprisingly limp metal housing of a parking meter became a regular accompaniment to our afternoons of drinking beer and avoiding all pretense of responsibility. Good fun had by all, punctuated by splashed of small change on oily cement flooring.
One day we were meeting for breakfast, and he saw such a meter. "Hold on," he said, hoisted it out of the sidewalk, and turned back to his late-'60s VW bus, meter slung jauntily under one arm.
It helps at this point in the story to know we lived in Oakland and were eating breakfast in Berkeley.
A crusty, disheveled old fellow on the sidewalk looked up at him and sees what he is doing. "Spare change?" he croaks out hopefully.
"Steal your own damned parking meter," is the hardhearted reply.
Admin
That, is fucking CLASSIC!
Admin
Admin
Most academic computer scientists wouldn't know the first thing about setting up a reliable server room.
(Nobody cares what my captcha is.)
Admin
Admin
I don't know, but they are certainly poor spellers.
Admin
Not any of the ones I've pulled apart. None of them have had anything sticky in them at all.
Admin
Are you kidding? Some of the nerds I know are worse alcoholics than an Irishman. Anyway, nerdiness is defined as social ineptitude (and bad hygiene) combined interest in nerdy indoor things (a/v, book science, engineering, computers, history, etc) and sometimes high intellect.
Girly men are defined as anyone Ahnold can beat up. (Physically, politically, or god forbid, intellectually...)
Admin
Just one word: vibrations.
Admin
Admin
Many years ago, I was told a story about the early days of hardware development at DEC. They were working on a huge disk drive -- platters several feet across, oriented vertically -- and started having a head crash on a particular drive every day at about the same time. After much experimentation and theorizing, they discovered that a truck made a delivery every day at that time. The old Maynard plant was a wooden 19th-century factory, and the truck would back up -- and INTO -- the loading dock, sending a vibration through the entire building. The solution was to turn the drives 90 degrees, so the heads would move across the platters, rather than INTO them.
Obviously I can't vouch for the veracity of this story, but I liked it!
...phsiii
Admin
It is more than painfully obvious that you have never used, held, touched or even quite possibly even been within 30' of a sabre saw, or even a construction area. Or tried to place either of your keyboard-calloused hands upon a board being cut with a sabre saw.
The mere magnitude (and amplitude) of the vibration caused by a sabre saw is incredible, and the housing of a server is quite conductive to such vibrations.
Try using one of those tools. The contractor grade, not the do-it-yourselfer grade tools. You'll learn. Quickly.
Admin
Dear Sir,
you've come too late. Please reread the entire thread!
;)
Admin
Worm drive depends on where you are. In MN no carpender uses a worm drive saw. In other areas that is the only thing they use. This depends on which coast they live on (That is West coast does it one way, Easy the other, but I can't remember which coast is which)
Saber saws are used all the time - circular saws are not ment for cutting curves (Even though that is all I can cut with one, they are for straight lines). Saber saws are used for tight curves. When I worked construction there was a saber saw in the truck - it was only used a couple times a year, but we had it. There was also a Sawzall which was used nearly every day.
I didn't work with them, but I know of some crews that use nothing be chain saws.
The tools that the pros use are different, but they all get the job done. They all have a large ability to kill or maime someone, and they all vibrate.
Admin
I second that motion. Last week in federal court someone stood up wearing a GT jersey and the judge imediately commented (positively) on it.
This story was most prob. in the Ritch building next to the library, they had construction recently. And I have a feeling I know who the poster is too, let's just say he's a Libertarian.
Admin
It was. Guaranteed =D
Admin
It was not the XT that required it but the hard drive. Later hard drives used the dying momentum to move the heads to a safe place. I had one, too, and a bit earlier, I worked on a system where the hard drive heads had to be locked manually. (Open up the case, etc.)
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
Admin
in the turnabout is fair play depoartment:
I once got to work for a day on a system that a family friend used. It was an HP mini(ish) system (98xx?). The friend worked in an old house, and when the hard drive was accessed, the building shook.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
Admin
So the real WTF is that the carpenter has 3 arms. 1 to hold onto the saw, 1 for half the freshly cut board, and 1 for the other half of the freshly cut board.
Admin
Many years ago I had an electrical contracting company as a customer. Their invoicing and job costing software was on a Sharp PC, running a version of CP/M.
I got called around one when they were desperate - their floppy disks (5 1/4" - ah happy days) with all their data were corrupted. The software wasn't the best, but was reasonably reliable as long as they saved all their work before they turned the power off. But this time not only were the disks corrupt but the parent and grandparent backups were as well. They assured me that they didn't get a chance to save their work - everything had just shut down. Odd.
So I spent a whole weekend in there rebuilding by hand the multiple link-lists which comprised the indexing system. We fired off the invoicing system, the customers paid up, the Inland Revenue Department got their cheque and everyone was happy.
A few days later they rang up to say the same thing had happened again. I told them not to move a muscle and I went straight round. I rebuilt the indexes again (with my saved code!) and did an extra backup. Then there was a brown-out - the lights dimmed and came back up, but the computer was sensitive enough to shut down.
"What was that?"
"Oh, that's the air compressor downstairs - do you think that's it?"
"Oh yes. I suggest you fix it."
Remember - this is an electrical contracting company, and a very good one - and it didn't have the compressor on a different circuit. Oh well...
Admin
You are a good man. Life is about improving and looking forward. Never let pride and ego get in the way of learning.
This scenario reminds me of the joke about a "jinxed" bed in a hospital when a patient will always die at a particular time and day. The doctors armed with their exorcism gear found out the elderly cleaning staff would pull out the power supply to the life-support system to operate the vaccum cleaner.
Admin
"quite a site to see"
Just because Word doesn't catch it as a spelling error doesn't mean it's right.
Admin
Actually, most people (let alone construction workers) wouldn't recognize typical data center hardware as a computer. It's just a buch of stuff in that cabinet thingy after all. Most people just think that a computer is a white tower sitting on a desk.
Admin
Ha ha, I still meet people who think that a computer is the monitor.
Admin
thats certainly a cite for saw eyes....
(sorry)
Admin
Hear, hear. I think themagni did a darn good job of handling 50 or so "You're wrong!" posts with a bit of class.
Admin
I've been asked (as an "IT guy") to fix a person's "modem" (by which they meant computer). The Real WTF™ is that they had an external (56k) modem, so it was even a seperate box. Well, I suppose they did mostly use both for email.
But then, I'm really not surprised at incompetence by contractors near computers. Just the other day our CTR monitors at work were replaced by LCD ones. In the process of installing my monitor, they apparently felt the need to unplug my keyboard and mouse from the KVM switch (plus another computer's mouse), and then plugged them back into the wrong port (the other mouse was just left dangling)
The requirements sheet for the tasks did actually specify that they check that the things were working, too.
Monitor working.... check
Keyboard/mouse broken.... check
Our work here is done!
Of course, nothing related to the monitor replacement project used such an non-technical term as monitor. No, they're VDUs. I actually had to look that one up.
Admin
Was "site to see" meant to be a pun?
Admin
I have a G5 iMac.
My computer is the monitor.
Nice to meetcha.
Admin
Its a sabre saw. High frequency VERTICAL inputs. As it speeds up and slows down it passes through a harmonic freqency of the arm the head is on and smack! it thwacks the head into the platter. Probably would not happen if repeated with the drive mounted at a 90 angle (but dont test it with MY drive).
Admin
I hired some contractors to put up a fence last summer. (Dog containment device, basically.) We had dutifully had all utilities marked. They nevertheless managed to run their auger right through one of the clearly marked and evidently very accurate pink lines marking the cable. All I can say is thank goodness it wasn't the electrical, water, or (god forbid) the gas lines. (We have a big gas main running through our back yard, and the gas company actually had somebody on sight to make sure it remained undisturbed. Now I understand why.)
Don't underestimate the ability of any worker, construction or otherwise, to opt for expedience rather than actually thinking things through. It's true: any construction worker does have the intelligence to figure out that they shouldn't substitute the client's equipment for a sawhorse. That doesn't mean they're going to take the time to actually put that much thought into it, though.
Admin
Let's hope it's a joke. I can assure you that medical services have WTFs all of their own, some of them lethal.
Admin
Also I'm guessing many people here haven't been in a decent sized hosting facility (major AT&T datacenters, Telehouse etc). Most people have a picture of a server room or datacenter in their head that looks like a little company server room, maybe a few hundred feet square and a bunch of racks.
This kind of do-construction-behind-sheeting thing is totally normal for the big boys. It's just not possible to move racks and racks of customer equipment around thousands of square feet of datacenter - the downtime, network restructuring, man time costs etc just make it impossible. So up go the plastic sheets, the work is done and that's that. The only odd thing is that they weren't supervised at all times, although it doesn't really seem like a secure environment so it's not that big a deal.
Really this WTF is that some construction guys didn't use their brains. That's hardly a revelation.
Admin
Oh and to add to my last post (directly above), if you want a real nervous WTF, I've seen entire datacenters cleared of asbestos with the servers still running. Can you guess what happens when asbestos dust gets in the air? Yup. One quarantined datacenter.
Admin
They most likely were cutting 2 X 4s with circular saws (although most schools / commercial buildings use metal studs for framing walls). The circular saw makes a lot of NOISE, but there just isn't that much vibration.
The carpenter would put the part to be cut sticking out past the saw horse (no, he would NOT throw it on the saw horse) -- so the piece between the server and the sawhorse wouldn't fall in -- which would create a dangerous scenario for the worker and his saw.
And another thing, the type of construction worker who would be working on this type of job would be a professional -- not a part-time chicken farmer. He would be used to taking pains to avoid damaging the customer's equipment -- even if he didn't understand what the equipment was for (or the contractor wouldn't keep him for very long).
Saw-horses come in pairs. Not only would the one he had be near-worthless, but the mate would be worthless, too, wherever it was. But even if only one sawhorse had been delivered to the job, it would be an easy matter for a Carpenter to make another one.
I believe the story either left out important details or is, at least partly, made-up.
Admin
As a guy who has worked both on countless building sites and in my fair share of technology companies, I can safely say that this is not only possible, but unfortunately common! :)
Admin
You're saying it's common for servers to be moved into a building still under construction with carpenters who do not even have a set of sawhorses and the servers are at the correct height to be a match for the missing saw horse?
Or are you saying it's common for the worker, his forman, the contractor and the construction superintendent (not to mention the customer) to overlook this obvious lack of safety, craftsmanship and concern for equipment?
(Trying to play the devil's advocate) If the "customer" hired the absolute cheapest contractor available (who was allowed to do the job without a "bond" read: insurance) and the contractor used illegal immigrants who had little or no construction experience, then, yes -- anything goes.
Admin
Sure, maybe after he had trashed a few pieces of expensive client equipment and been threatened with or actually the defendant of a lawsuit or two.
OK, so to make a sawhorse, you need a few lengths of wood...OK, you can't use the materials for the customer work...and you probably can't fell nearby trees without getting some kind of permission...what is he going to make the sawhorse out of?
Even better, where would they get the sawhorse so they can cut the wood into the right lengths to build a sawhorse?
I once watched in horror as a painter walked towards a class 100 clean room with a belt sander (to sand down the edges of a recently painted doorway, apparently). Fortunately he was being followed--at a run--by someone who was not quite so dumbfounded by the amount of damage that would have been caused just by taking the saw into the room, let alone operating it there. Imagine, a guy in a bunny suit complete with face mask, gloves, and slippers, walking through the clean airlock...with a belt sander...
Admin
What a ridiculous comment -- on so many levels.
First, if you're holding a piece of wood in one hand and cutting it with a jigsaw in the other...consider yourself nominated for a Darwin award. Two sawhorses are a requirement. I don't know why the construction team would show up with just one. They cost $20 at Home Depot.
Second, that kind of saw provides more vibration than practically any other saw you might find on a construction site (radial, table, etc.). And yes, its enough to vibrate disk heads.
Third, who exactly is putting CRT monitors on the top of rack-mount server boxes? Sure you can put a CRT on an old pizza box 486, but I haven't seen anybody putting a 19" CRT on top of a Blade.
Admin
I used to live in Atlanta, and I think I can explain this. You see, in Atlanta, much of the day-labor for things like gardening, construction, etc. is provided by transitory workers from other countries. So if you have a construction crew of 8 and on a particular day you think you need 12, you go down to Home Depot and you pick up 4 workers, hopefully one of whom speaks English and can be the liason to the other 3.
I used to work for a moving company -- specializing in computers and office equipment (we break it, we pay for it) -- and my boss hired half of the staff this way. They were good at unplugging and boxing the computers, but they couldn't plug them back in afterward -- even with the color-coded cables/ports on the Dell boxes that predominate. (This is why the other half of the staff was like me -- slightly higher paid high school students who knew how to plug in a PC.) So it's not a stretch to think that a few cheaply paid seasonal construction workers would have made the mistake of using some expensive piece of computer hardware as a sawhorse.
Admin
>>after he had trashed a few pieces of expensive client equipment and been threatened with or actually the defendant of a lawsuit or two.<<
There is an apprenticeship for construction workers. I am self employed now, but worked for 25 years in construction and NEVER saw a piece of expensive equipment damaged -- usually because anyone owning such equipment would not be allowed to bring it in until the building was completed. The "bond" I spoke of plays an important part, here. If the contractor damages something, his insurance pays.
The construction worker is never liable, for such damage -- unless he destroys things purposefully -- it's the contractor.
>>OK, you can't use the materials for the customer work..<<
Of course he can. And does. Two 2 X 4s is NOTHING. (and nobody is standing around counting, anyway)
>>Even better, where would they get the sawhorse so they can cut the wood into the right lengths to build a sawhorse? <<
The blueprint table has served as a temporary platform for all sorts of work, or scraps of wood under a piece of sheetrock -- use your imagination.
>>..painter walked towards a class 100 clean room with a belt sander..<<
There are all sorts of such stories (this thread is evidence), but at least ONE person has responsibility for keeping the integrity of the clean room intact at all times -- perhaps that is why the painter didn't make it into the room.
Admin
captcha: you're NOT incapable of error
Admin
What a DUMB thing to say! You NEVER heard of a disk crash, and don't understand how disk drives work? WOW!
Steve
Admin
You're right, it was a dumb thing to say. That's why I made a post about how wrong I am.
It's not the first time I've been wrong, and it won't be the last.
I feel stupid. I don't know what else to say.
Admin
Whereas your comment is ridiculous on just one level. If you're going to reply to a two-day old comment, for goodness sake read all the other replies first.
Latest news: Japan attacks Pearl Harbour.
Admin
Or they were cutting wood panelling. It's hard to say. The room may even have been a retrofit; it is in a school, after all, and there you have to make do with whatever will fit in the existing structure. Many of the older buildings at my old school were built out of limestone blocks. That greatly limits the options. (Three of the dorms were still without Ethernet when I graduated, as a direct consequence of their limestone construction. Any new wiring had to go through new conduits laid alongside the walls because drilling through limestone blocks just doesn't make sense.)
Besides, I personally would be wary of using even a circular saw in this context. I've used those before and watched the almost hypnotic way the sawdust will dance on the board while the saw is operating. Yeah, it doesn't vibrate like a saber saw (which is what this story specifies), but it just doesn't seem like a good idea to use a server as the sawhorse with any saw. If nothing else, the odds of height-matching the real sawhorse are just about nil.
Seems to me that the worker in question was the sort of person more interested in getting the job done than in doing it right. There are people like that in every field, and stories like this should be repeated as they remind us not to get sloppy in our own work.
Admin
(sorry -- just saw this reply of yours)
First, I have to say that any contractor who hires his men from the parking lot at Home Depot does not need to be on the type of job we are talking about. Such "day laborers" are more suited for landscaping and (if they have had some experience) housing projects.
Most cities require anyone doing a job like this one to be (sorry to keep harping on this) Bonded. Usually the contractor's net worth determines the size of a bond he qualifies for -- so if you have a contractor with $2 M assets, he cannot get bonded for a job worth $3 M.
So larger contractors either have a core of "regulars" and/or are associated with the local union which supplies them with as many qualified workers as needed at any given time.
If you were a contractor and your "illegal" workers were making your insurance costs go through the roof, you might re-think your manpower options -- the cheapest worker is usually not the best worker -- and we're not even speaking of craftsmanship, here.
Admin
Calli Arcale,
The post you are replying to IINM, was pointing out the different levels the original story seemed to be "off" on. In my opinion, if a contractor hires a carpenter who is either too stupid or too lazy to build a sawhorse, then the contractor deserves whatever he gets.
It has been my pleasure to work around carpenters who view themselves as craftsmen, taking great pride in their work. I have personally been on their hand-crafted wooden scaffolds (for instance), many feet up in the air, perfectly confident in my safety. (After building the scaffold, several of the larger carpenters would get on the top level and jump on it repeatedly)
All this aside, an expensive piece of equipment has no place on a construction site. For a refurb, an enclosure should be built -- the insurance people should DEMAND it.