• mara (unregistered) in reply to ObiWayneKenobi
    ObiWayneKenobi:
    The real WTF is that companies don't see anything wrong in operating like this. I guarantee that the CEO and management would stay home in conditions like that, but it's fine for the "peasants" to brave harsh conditions or else.

    Like I've often said... the way a modern corporation works is more like feudalism in that the workers have little rights and are expected to kowtow to the lords (i.e. management), who pretty much do whatever they want.

    With union shops, it is the union leaders that are the lords and the workers are still the "peasants."

  • (cs) in reply to Pete
    Pete:
    There were layoffs this year in every department apart from guess which one. My previous employer had 4 for around 1000 staff + contractors.

    one of my previous employers had a massive amount of women working in the HR department - one of which we all knew because she interviewed all of us, sorted out the payroll and was generally there when we needed some kind of admin help.

    Then there were a load more (Don't remember exactly how many, but when the whole company was called together for a meeting they filled an entire row of the office) - all very visibly pregnant and all rumoured to be partners of senior managers. Nobody could ever recall seeing any of them do any work at any point.

    I remember the day the tech support hellhole in question was outsourced and we were all told this.

    'any questions?' 'uh.... we still get our maternity leave, right?'

  • (cs)

    public sector/semi public sector jobs pay you on snow days, no matter how many of them there are. Although you do have to deal with furloughs though.

  • Quirkafleeg (unregistered) in reply to east_coast_bunny
    east_coast_bunny:
    In 2008 I moved Portland.
    Wouldn't it have been easier just to move yourself?
  • (cs) in reply to Another canuck
    Another canuck:
    Imagine yourself as the business owner: should you eat the losses because employees don't come in? Obviously the east coast snowstorms were ridiculous this year, but where do you draw the line?

    Personally, I'd draw it at the point where the city government says "the streets are not safe and you're not to be driving on them." Or maybe even a wee bit short of that.

  • (cs) in reply to operagost
    operagost:
    Henfry:
    My company's policy is basically the same; the building is always open, and if you can't make it in to work on a normal work day you'll either have to make up the time during the same billing period, take a vacation day, or take an unpaid day off. Some of the managers live right across the street from the office building, so they can always make it to work.

    They don't send out snarky emails to us when it snows, though, and they're fairly flexibly about making up lost hours, plus working from home is a possibility. So my experiences haven't been as frustrating as those in the article.

    I really hope you're kidding. If a state of emergency is declared, and working from home is unavailable for any reason, no one should be expected to work because it would require breaking the law and putting oneself in danger. I would not accept having to use my vacation. If the company attempts to discipline me, I would have to remind them that asking employees to break the law (and punishing them if they don't) is itself illegal. Lawyer up!
    In this case the employer should have said "take an unpaid day off, use a vacation day at your discretion, or work overtime to make up the hours."

    Why would you expect to get paid for the days you're not working? (My employer does so, and it's pretty sweet -- but I wouldn't expect it.) While it's not your fault that you can't drive, it's also not your employers. You both lose out - you don't get paid for the day. The employer doesn't get work done.

  • (cs) in reply to Jaime

    Guess I am pretty lucky here in the US:

    • 4 weeks paid vacation, no restrictions beyond use good judgment
    • 6 sick days
    • 3 "floating holidays" aka personal days
    • 9 paid holidays (basically whenever the market is closed)

    Can just not show on snow days with encouragement to log on from home. Can "work from home" if have justification on that day (IE package delivery, home repair appointment, cable guy etc).

  • 6721 (unregistered) in reply to Buffled
    Buffled:
    Why would you expect to get paid for the days you're not working? (My employer does so, and it's pretty sweet -- but I wouldn't expect it.) While it's not your fault that you can't drive, it's also not your employers. You both lose out - you don't get paid for the day. The employer doesn't get work done.
    Because it works both ways... we are paid $0 for every hour past 40 hours worked per week. If we can work for free, they can pay us for doing nothing.
  • Troy (unregistered)

    It irratated me just reading the story. I hope they didnt expect anyone to work if they're using vacation. So whats the point the company still pays the employees but gets no work accomplished and makes the employees mad that they're forced to burn vacation time. I went through hurricane Katrina.. i cant image being told to take vacation cause im not allowed to return to the city.

  • Finn (unregistered) in reply to Max Kode
    Max Kode:
    frits:
    ~10% unemployment rate (official numbers, more like 17%+) is why companies like this still find employees.
    So if there are thousands or millions of bright capable hardworking people milling around with nothing to do, why doesn't JUST ONE of them start a NEW business and hire all the rest? Hell, give them 8 weeks vacation and all the paid snow days they can justify -- even those who have jobs today will run to join your firm!

    With all those happy, stress-free employees eager to support their beloved employer, this organization could kick its competition right off the map -- right? So what's stopping you?

    "The bank won't loan me enough money to start my business."

    Well we've gone from a sucky employer to a sucky bank. Same problem. Start your own. Do better. Wipe out the slugs.

    "The government won't let me start a bank / company without a ton of paperwork / compliance / litigation."

    Well, maybe there's your problem. "Public-private partnership" means big corp honchos make sweet deals with big gov honchos to lock everyone else out. Also known as fascism.

    Agreed. And I actually have both a day job for a big corporation AND have started my own businesses. But when I talk about starting up a business and being self employed and taking ownership of one's life to most other people, it's like watching a retard get excited about candy. It lasts all of about 5 seconds and then the realization sinks in that there's actual work involved and they give up on the idea. Much easier to punch in, work mindlessly, punch out, and get a paycheck at the end of the week. No risk involved. Just the risk of wasting away your life.

    Entrepreneurs live on a totally different wavelength than other people. And given what we all do for a living, we can start tech-centric businesses with almost no startup costs. Compare that to other industries (restaurants, mechanics, etc.) that require a lot of up front capital just to get started.

    Count yourselves lucky and go make the most of life.

  • Mike (unregistered)

    The best idea for OP would be to try to get to work and get himself seriously injured, or even better, killed. Then he could sue the company.

  • parl (unregistered) in reply to Mr. S
    Mr. S:
    Thankfully my workplace was closed during the Snowmageddon and Snowpocalypse.

    My girlfriend, who was scheduled to take the LSAT at Georgetown, wasn't as lucky. They were the only University in the DC metro area that didn't cancel the exam and expected people to walk/drive to their campus through 2 feet of snow during a white out. One email to the testing company containing excerpts from the NWS advisory warning that going outdoors could result in death later, resulted in a rare exception that allowed her to sit for another location's rain/backup exam.

    I wonder if these people actually look out of their windows?

    In maryland it was actually illegal to drive on the roads.. state of emergency and etc

  • Paul (unregistered)

    I'm an employer, and our policy is basically, if it snows heavily and the roads are iffy, don't come in. If it keeps up for a few days, then try and get in.

    It's far easier to recover from one day of no work than it is to recruit new employees when they've been killed in an accident, or to handle people who are off long-term sick due to injury.

  • Anon (unregistered) in reply to Anon
    Anon:
    If your employer is going to be in trouble because it has to pay one or two days of wages per year without getting any work for it, then you'd better start looking for a new one because your current one is most likely going to fold due to unexpected eletricity costs the next time someone forgets to turn off the lights before leaving the building.

    That's actually a good point. Don't (or shouldn't) most companies have some kind of insurance to cover such an event?

  • Esk (unregistered)

    I hate to say it but you might as well change the company name with my employer. Absolutely the same deal if not worse. I lost a baby in 5th month and they gave me 3day berivement which was about as long as my hospital stay for the following week that i was on bedrest they made me use all my vacation. Meanwhile i was saving vacation to go see my dieing mother back in europe and 7months later just when i thought i had enough time to go for 4days back to eastern europe I got the can't do that you dont have enough time and HR actualy said "Sorry about your baby and your mom but its just business". I was short 2 days which I used to stay home when a snow blizzard happened and our office remain open. The 3rd day i came to work to find out that noone was in the office to begin with.

  • John (unregistered)

    This is very similar to something that happened at my last company.

    We had a freak snowstorm which was about 2 months away from the actual snow season, so nobody was prepared. Got multiple feet of snow, too. The trees hadn't shed their leaves yet, so they iced up really good and all the extra weight of the leaves and ice caused the trees to begin falling down all over the county; power outages for over a week in many places.

    The company called each employee individually and reminded everyone that we are open and that if we don't show up we'll be docked pay.

    The entire county had a driving ban in effect, however. But since I was a bit short in finances at the time, I braved the drive and went into work, which was operating on backup generators and had no internet. Only about 1/4th of the office actually showed up.

    The company kept calling employees telling threatening them that they'd better come in. Eventually one of the employees called our HR company (we outsourced our HR to another company), and the HR company gave our managers a call asking what the fark could they possibly be thinking; they cannot require people to come into work when there are driving bans in effect; they could be sued if anyone gets in an accident on the way in.

    Additionally, they said they cannot dock pay or force people to take paid leave for the day either. So everyone who stayed home got a free paid day off.

    This of course pissed off the 1/4th of us who actually did show up, so we started raising hell about what do we get for actually showing up. At first we wanted to just go home early, but HR told them they couldn't let us leave now with the driving ban in effect, due to the same liability reason. So we were stuck at work and forced to work until the driving ban was lifted. And we were pissed off.

    Management decided that we didn't get anything extra for coming in. Literally they said we were getting a "loyalty chip" for coming in and that since we came in that would be considered in the future for things like performance reviews.

    It was pretty much bullshit and we all felt really screwed. A few weeks later at a company HR meeting one of the more smartass employees asked if they remembered who even showed up on that day, and they couldn't remember; thus proving that the "loyalty chips" were worthless.

    Over the next year, a full half of the company ended up leaving in the largest exodus the company has ever had. This wasn't the only reason, but I generally consider this the one big focal point which tipped the "should I stay or should I go" scales for many people.

    It's just amusing how these ridiculous acts of stinginess can cause so much sour vibes with your employees that it ends up screwing you major league in the end. Guess upper management should be less bean-county and more brain-thinky.

  • Buddy (unregistered) in reply to John
    John:
    ... should be less bean-county and more brain-thinky.

    I like that, can I use it as the occasion permits?

  • similar (unregistered)

    When Hurricane Juan mowed though my neighbourhood a few years back streets were covered with trees, police saying to stay off the roads unless you were an emergency worker and power out for hundreds of thousands.

    On day two I got a call from work wondering why I wasn't there.

    "I still have no power and I've been helping to clear trees from my and neighbour's driveways.". Boss gets on the phone and says I should be there.

    We had to work overtime to make up lost time.

  • swschrad (unregistered)

    if your blizzard is the headline on bbc.com, you're not going in to work. note that fact in your notification. if (redactedtechnologies) can't get that far, phone it in to the TV and radio stations, that Whatchie Noclue at Redacted says everybody come on in, the weather is fine.

    the issue will resolve itself shortly thereafter.

    broad media play is your friend.

  • (cs) in reply to Paul
    Paul:
    I'm an employer...

    It's far easier to recover from one day of no work than it is to recruit new employees when they've been killed in an accident...

    Agreed. Recruiting new employees who've been killed in an accident is brutal. My first tech employer kinda did it once, but he was actually recruited right before he was killed in an accident, rather than after.

    (Also, he was one of those people who aren't good at staying down after being declared dead, so we got some use out of him after all. Not much, though, as I recall - oddly enough, he seemed to have a change in priorities between when we hired him and when he showed up for his first day (roughly a year later).)

  • (cs)

    (1) This WTF is a perfect example: Don't believe everything your HR department tells you. (2) The magic words in such situations: "Law of the land." Specifically in this case "State of Emergency", "Force majeure" and "Vehicle travel ban" whenever having to discuss this with HR or management. 'Coz if they'll get taken to Court they'll get taken to the cleaners ...

    Just my 0.02$

  • (cs) in reply to swedish tard
    swedish tard:
    Buddy:
    Mads Bondo Dydensborg:
    I know this is off topic, maybe even trolling, but seriously...

    In Europe, we have 4-5 weeks of (paid!) vacation. I personally have 6 weeks, my wife 7. Pr. year. From you start working.

    I have no idea how you live with only two weeks of vacation a year.

    Yeah, it really sucks. A lot of people don't even take the time off. When I was in management in a previous company I wasn't allowed to take off two consecutive weeks. I had to split it into two smaller vacations which as anyone knows, one week is not enough to de-stress.

    Neither is 2 weeks according to the people that really know.
    In my country it's even a legal requirement that you take at least two weeks off consecutively once a year. Minimum leave is 4 weeks.

  • nah (unregistered) in reply to Zemm
    Zemm:
    Why do you guys even live in such bad places? Where I live it rarely even goes below 0°C and has never snowed (AFAIK anyway)! Last winter it was warm enough to go to the beach :)

    Because it eliminates the sissies (they freeze to death or move south) so that we don't have to be around them.

  • Science Guy (unregistered) in reply to Mr. D
    Mr. D:
    Don't you hate this global warming thing?

    Global warming talks averages over time and not a single year or month. And as others have mentioned it's about the climate not weather. If you did want to make a correlation, it is about extreme weather, in both directions. Not only hot weather. And this was EXTREME weather for the DC area.

  • Fishbert (unregistered) in reply to charliebob
    charliebob:
    Some of the comments here seem to go along the lines of what happens between Scotland and England.

    Here in Scotland, we get snow enough that:

    1. We know how to drive in it safetly
    2. We get practice at doing no 1
    3. The government knows what to do so we can do no 2
    4. We see it, and we get on with it.

    In England, a few inches of snow and everything grinds to a halt. Scotland, we had a good couple feet, and I drove 100 miles in it without a problem...in a Citroen C1. (No kidding).

    It all about experience, if you have that kind of weather on a semi regular basis, it wont affect you all that much. If it's something that never happens...then it'll cause problems.

    You've hit the nail on the head. In some parts of the US, like where I live, 3 or 4 feet of snow, let alone a mere 2 feet, is a standard occurrence in the winter. But in some parts of the country, it is not. (In some areas, a mere inch or two would shut things down out of total fear and unfamiliarity.) As much as we like to tease them about not knowing how to drive in the snow, you cannot deny that part of the issue is the highway departments in those ares simply do not own the equipment to deal with the snow. Every 5 or so years, Washington DC gets a "big" snow storm (small to medium sized to other parts of the country) and it shuts the city down. Since it's our capital, it makes the national and international news. The added fact that the Washington DC roads and commuter systems are operating way over capacity on a good weather day further complicates matter. But that's another discussion...

  • (cs)

    "The beatings will continue until staff morale improves."

  • MSCW (unregistered) in reply to Anon
    Anon:
    Mads Bondo Dydensborg:
    In Europe, we have 4-5 weeks of (paid!) vacation. I personally have 6 weeks, my wife 7. Pr. year. From you start working.

    I have no idea how you live with only two weeks of vacation a year.

    Many of us can't understand how you live making half the money we make...

    You will be upset.. But I working 25 hours a week and making TWICE much money as you!

  • Jay (unregistered) in reply to RogerWilco
    RogerWilco:
    In my country it's even a legal requirement that you take at least two weeks off consecutively once a year. Minimum leave is 4 weeks.

    Wow. Do they also tell you where you have to go on your vacation, how much time you must spend visting attractions versus staying in your hotel, and what foods you are allowed to eat?

  • (cs) in reply to Mads Bondo Dydensborg
    Mads Bondo Dydensborg:
    I know this is off topic, maybe even trolling, but seriously...

    In Europe, we have 4-5 weeks of (paid!) vacation. I personally have 6 weeks, my wife 7. Pr. year. From you start working.

    I have no idea how you live with only two weeks of vacation a year.

    Simple. We just spend our lives longing for death.

  • DigiTechGuy (unregistered)

    All I hear in this story is a bunch of whining from someone too lazy or cheap to plan accordingly. I live not too far from DC and my work closed during this "snowmageddon" which was nothing more than a light winter flurry. I was quite disappointed and dropped my opinion of the company down a notch.

    The snowy days before and after I got in to work an hour or two earlier than normal so as to have fun driving on the roads before the plows cleared the snow away. I've been through New England winters, lake effect snow, Mighigan and norhthern Maine. Never stops anyone from getting where they need to go, no matter how bad the snow is worse is some folks get in late. Many folks there drive small cars, but most will have an old beater 4x4 to drive when the snow gets deep.

    I've driven cars in 1 foot of snow on unplowed roads, not a big deal if you buy a decent car and know how to drive in the snow. I've driven trucks with small lifts and small tires in 3' and deeper of unplowed snow, not a big deal.

    Bottom line here is people in the DC area are a punch of liberal crybabies looking for any excuse not to work and to get a paid day off. TRWTF is that so many businesses closed on that day.

  • Sam (unregistered) in reply to Mr. S
    Mr. S:
    Thankfully my workplace was closed during the Snowmageddon and Snowpocalypse.

    My girlfriend, who was scheduled to take the LSAT at Georgetown, wasn't as lucky. They were the only University in the DC metro area that didn't cancel the exam and expected people to walk/drive to their campus through 2 feet of snow during a white out. One email to the testing company containing excerpts from the NWS advisory warning that going outdoors could result in death later, resulted in a rare exception that allowed her to sit for another location's rain/backup exam.

    I wonder if these people actually look out of their windows?

    My wife took that same LSAT and got stuck at Georgetown for two days. She had to take the Metro (before it closed) to Rosslyn and walk across the Key Bridge because Georgetown canceled shuttle service due to bad weather. Luckily she knew a friend who lived there and was able to stay. It was disgusting that EVERY other university canceled the exam.

  • bigger (unregistered) in reply to My Little Pony

    lololol!

  • Andreas (unregistered) in reply to Buddy
    Buddy:
    Mads Bondo Dydensborg:
    I know this is off topic, maybe even trolling, but seriously...

    In Europe, we have 4-5 weeks of (paid!) vacation. I personally have 6 weeks, my wife 7. Pr. year. From you start working.

    I have no idea how you live with only two weeks of vacation a year.

    Yeah, it really sucks. A lot of people don't even take the time off. When I was in management in a previous company I wasn't allowed to take off two consecutive weeks. I had to split it into two smaller vacations which as anyone knows, one week is not enough to de-stress.

    Wow, here in Sweden we have a law that says that an employee has the right to four consecutive weeks of vacation during the summer. By the law we also have at least five weeks of paid vacation.

  • Andreas (unregistered) in reply to Anon
    Anon:
    Mads Bondo Dydensborg:
    I know this is off topic, maybe even trolling, but seriously...

    In Europe, we have 4-5 weeks of (paid!) vacation. I personally have 6 weeks, my wife 7. Pr. year. From you start working.

    I have no idea how you live with only two weeks of vacation a year.

    Many of us can't understand how you live making half the money we make...

    Why make a lot of money if you can't find the time to spend it? I'd rather sit on a tropical beach sipping piña coladas than sitting in an office watching my bank account grow.

  • (cs) in reply to Andreas
    Andreas:
    Anon:
    Mads Bondo Dydensborg:
    I know this is off topic, maybe even trolling, but seriously...

    In Europe, we have 4-5 weeks of (paid!) vacation. I personally have 6 weeks, my wife 7. Pr. year. From you start working.

    I have no idea how you live with only two weeks of vacation a year.

    Many of us can't understand how you live making half the money we make...

    Why make a lot of money if you can't find the time to spend it? I'd rather sit on a tropical beach sipping piña coladas than sitting in an office watching my bank account grow.

    Not me. I hate the beach; my lily white/freckled skin pratically bursts into flames after 15 minutes of sun. Also, piña coladas are for ladies.

  • (cs) in reply to DigiTechGuy
    DigiTechGuy:
    All I hear in this story is a bunch of whining from someone too lazy or cheap to plan accordingly. I live not too far from DC and my work closed during this "snowmageddon" which was nothing more than a light winter flurry. I was quite disappointed and dropped my opinion of the company down a notch.

    No matter how good a driver you are or what equipment you have, being out on the roads unnecessarily in severe weather is indefensible. Necessity is defined not by how big your balls are or how tightassed your employer is, but by whether people will be sick, injured, dead or otherwise put at risk by you not coming in. ER doctors, police, firemen, road crews: report to work. Lawyers, mall cops, and basically everybody else: STAY HOME.

    It may sound badass that you drove in to your job at 7-11 in three feet of snow, but you're still an idiot for doing it.

  • Eric (unregistered)

    I swear I worked for this company. Our headquarters was in the DC area and we received the first email, as best as I can remember, word for word when a severe ice storm was scheduled for our area.

    The company policy was we're open for business, even though the office was without electricity for almost two whole days. The servers were running on backup generators, so no problem there. The local managers had more sense than corporate and worked with people to make up the time.

  • Mark J. (unregistered) in reply to Ollie Williams
    Ollie Williams:
    Soulless large company forgets to treat its "resources" like human beings?

    Please. I bet this was the same story at several dozen other places of business in the DC area.

    Boss to HR the night before: "Those weanies are going to bitch and moan for a snow day like a bunch of children. The roads are never really THAT bad. I don't care what the weather channel says, tomorrow we are open no matter what."

    TRWTF is companies like these still find employees.

    Either that, or the HR drone has risen to her level of incompetence...

  • Mark J. (unregistered) in reply to similar
    similar:
    When Hurricane Juan mowed though my neighbourhood a few years back streets were covered with trees, police saying to stay off the roads unless you were an emergency worker and power out for hundreds of thousands.

    On day two I got a call from work wondering why I wasn't there.

    "I still have no power and I've been helping to clear trees from my and neighbour's driveways.". Boss gets on the phone and says I should be there.

    We had to work overtime to make up lost time.

    Time to seek employment elsewhere (if available)...

  • US LAW (unregistered)

    In US law, endangerment comprises several types of crimes involving conduct that is wrongful and reckless or wanton, and likely to produce death or grievous bodily harm to another person.

    The offense is intended to prohibit and therefore deter reckless or wanton conduct that wrongfully creates a substantial risk of death or serious injury to others.

    The law specifies several types of endangerment, including:

    * Reckless endangerment: A person commits the crime of reckless endangerment if the person recklessly engages in conduct which creates a substantial risk of serious physical injury to another person. “Reckless” conduct is conduct that exhibits a culpable disregard of foreseeable consequences to others from the act or omission involved. The accused need not intentionally cause a resulting harm or know that his conduct is substantially certain to cause that result. The ultimate question is whether, under all the circumstances, the accused’s conduct was of that heedless nature that made it actually or imminently dangerous to the rights or safety of others.

    Endangerment can range from a misdemeanor to a felony.

  • Vex (unregistered) in reply to Aaron
    Aaron:
    So was this HR drone actually sending those e-mails from the office? And if so - when and how did she drive in?

    The icing on the cake would be if she was working from home while insisting everybody else drive through the snowstorm.

    This is exactly what happened where I worked and it was probably the same snowstorm assuming this was Feb 2010.

    HR person sent an e-mail saying basically that the business was open and people need to go to work. Someone actually made it in and sent an e-mail saying that no one was there including HR and that no one should attempt to make it in because it was way too dangerous. Fortunately HR did deign to excuse everyone for that day.

  • Balto Babe (unregistered)

    My husband has weeks of sick time accumulated, weeks of vacation to use and days of personal leave. But he is going to have a disciplinary hearing because he called in sick during the last snow storm. He was sick, but didnt go to the doctor to get a note. But that isnt even required until you are out 3 days. He lost 2 days pay for having the audacity to be out sick for 2 days without a doctors note. And will be penalized with 2 extra days off without pay if he loses in the hearing. So what is the point of having sick time. Also personal time has to be scheduled in advance. So if you have an emergency come up like your car breaks down and you need a day off, guess you are forced to call in sick, but then is the mechanic's note considered a doctor's note. In America, the honest pay for the sins of the dishonest employee who never gets punished because they learn how to use the system. Liberal leave is a joke. If you are fortunate enough to work for a company that will allow you to use your time or elect to not get paid if you dont work (and you shouldnt) then good for you.

  • Balto Babe (unregistered)

    My husband has weeks of sick time accumulated, weeks of vacation to use and days of personal leave. But he is going to have a disciplinary hearing because he called in sick during the last snow storm. He was sick, but didnt go to the doctor to get a note. But that isnt even required until you are out 3 days. He lost 2 days pay for having the audacity to be out sick for 2 days without a doctors note. And will be penalized with 2 extra days off without pay if he loses in the hearing. So what is the point of having sick time. Also personal time has to be scheduled in advance. So if you have an emergency come up like your car breaks down and you need a day off, guess you are forced to call in sick, but then is the mechanic's note considered a doctor's note. In America, the honest pay for the sins of the dishonest employee who never gets punished because they learn how to use the system. Liberal leave is a joke. If you are fortunate enough to work for a company that will allow you to use your time or elect to not get paid if you dont work (and you shouldnt) then good for you.

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