• Matt (unregistered) in reply to jtl

    Viruses only affect computers, Hackers can only attack computers,

    Viruses are bad Hackers are bad

    QED: Computers are bad.

    And we save overhead of buying computers to boot!

  • Harrow (unregistered) in reply to vt_mruhlin
    vt_mruhlin:
    Please, please, somebody explain to them that thumb drives can spread viruses too
    Right.

    Amanda should scan all the company's computers for virii and other malware -- especially the DM's machine.

    -Harrow.

  • Jay (unregistered)

    A few years back the U.S. military found that someone had hacked in to an FTP site. So ... they banned FTP. A general directive went out that we all had to submit "migration plans" on how we were going to replace all of our FTP sites with some alternative within six months. I pointed out that 99.99% of our FTP sites had never been hacked and most of those no one would care if they were. Too bad, one site had been hacked, FTP was too dangerous. I pointed out that there had been numerous automobile accidents on bases over the years, but no one proposed banning cars from base. Stupid analogy, I was told, not at all the same thing.

    Shortly after this they put out a list of what Internet protocols we were allowed to use. http: okay. smtp: okay. ftp: no. telnet: screaming no at the top of our lungs. Well, pretty much everything other than http and smtp were out.

    Apparently someone with more pull than little peasant me got them to relent enough to allow sftp provided that we filled out a fifty page justification.

  • St. Mary's Hospital for the True Image of Colonic Diseases (unregistered) in reply to dlikhten
    dlikhten:
    All employees will be given a full-body cavity search for papers upon exiting.

    Hopefully, the cavities are not full when searched.

  • Jay (unregistered) in reply to gabba
    gabba:
    Sorry to have to give Amanda one more lecture, but these issues are exactly the ones she should have been asking about before she took the job. What on earth did she ask about during her interview?

    It's always the things you don't think to ask about in the interview that burn you. I, too, would never think to ask, "Do you have email here?" in this century. Nor have I ever asked, "Do you believe in electricity?" or "Do you have flush toilets in the building or are employees expected to use an outhouse?" Frankly, I tend to ask about the things that were bad on a previous job.

  • Jay (unregistered) in reply to Lyle
    Lyle:
    I have the same situation. Only when I want to print a memo, I have to make my own paper.
    1. Mein Kampf was printed on paper.
    2. Hitler wrote Mein Kampf.
    3. Hitler was a bad person.
    4. Paper is bad.

    Clearly, if your company allows its employees to use paper, you must all be a bunch of Nazis.

  • (cs)
    1. Money is good
    2. Bugs loose money
    3. Bugs are bad
    4. Developers create bugs
    5. Developers are bad
    6. Therefore no developers = no bugs = more profit

    hmmmm. wait a second...

    1. Change requests introduce bugs
    2. Change requests are bad.
    3. Therefore no change requ...

    Oh my $DEITY! We've won!

  • (cs) in reply to Charles
    Charles:
    In 1989, we called it "sneaker-net" when running office to office with diskettes.
    Once in the early 90's I read that the most used file-transfer protocol was the FDC-FDG. FDC-FDG standing for "floppy disk comes, floppy disk goes"
  • Mat (unregistered) in reply to snoofle
    snoofle:
    Lyle:
    I have the same situation. Only when I want to print a memo, I have to make my own paper.

    --Lyle

    If you're gonna do something, at least go all the way..

    I have to grow my own trees to make my own paper...

    Topper!

  • ThePhwner (unregistered) in reply to jtl

    If you build a network, but don't allow any users to access it, you've got the world's most secure network, right???

  • (cs) in reply to gabba
    gabba:
    Sorry to have to give Amanda one more lecture, but these issues are exactly the ones she should have been asking about before she took the job. What on earth did she ask about during her interview?
    Please tell me that in your last interview you asked these questions.

    "How far I'll have to walk to send an email?" "How big will my file-transfer thumb drive be?" "Hey, if I place a new version of the software to a customer website and after a few weeks we notice it's not working correctly, I will still have the old version code to compile and deploy, right?"

    You didn't?? Shame on you. What did you do during the interview?

  • Saaid (unregistered) in reply to ThePhwner
    ThePhwner:
    If you build a network, but don't allow any users to access it, you've got the world's most secure network, right???

    That's the philosophy of every network engineer with which I've ever worked.

  • CrazyBomber (unregistered) in reply to dlikhten
    dlikhten:
    1. Criminals can steal computers from the office 2. Criminals are bad 3. Computers are bad Solution: All coding is to be done on paper, all compilations by hand, all will be transferred to a computer by a mainframe operator with top-secret security clearance and all papers shredded. All employees will be given a full-body cavity search for papers upon exiting.

    For simplicity of process, the operators will use a specially designed keyboard for this task, having only 2 keys: '0' and '1'.

  • eric76 (unregistered) in reply to gabba
    gabba:
    Sorry to have to give Amanda one more lecture, but these issues are exactly the ones she should have been asking about before she took the job. What on earth did she ask about during her interview?
    You are quite right.

    My first question in any interview is how far is my office from the e-mail office.

    The second question is always how far do I have to walk to check in my code.

    And if interviewing someone from a job and they don't have the intelligence to ask these questions, I know they are clueless twits who currently work at McDonald's and are just lying with their resumes.

  • Anon (unregistered)
    told me the way to do that was to get everyone in to the conference room so I can tell them.

    That's easy, just send them an invite....oh right.

  • Vermont Devil (unregistered)

    Amanda better start polishing her resume and look for other work.

    No way that company will continue to thrive with these poor draconian approaches.

  • (cs) in reply to Smash King
    Smash King:
    gabba:
    Sorry to have to give Amanda one more lecture, but these issues are exactly the ones she should have been asking about before she took the job. What on earth did she ask about during her interview?
    Please tell me that in your last interview you asked these questions.

    "How far I'll have to walk to send an email?" "How big will my file-transfer thumb drive be?" "Hey, if I place a new version of the software to a customer website and after a few weeks we notice it's not working correctly, I will still have the old version code to compile and deploy, right?"

    You didn't?? Shame on you. What did you do during the interview?

    If she had asked any questions at all about the work environment, the workflow, the deployment process -- anything at all, really -- the conversation would inevitably have uncovered the WTFs she described here. I'm guessing she didn't ask any questions at all, just answered the interviewer's questions and left.

  • morry (unregistered)

    I always make sure to ask in my interviews "Is anyone working here borderline insane?"

  • (cs) in reply to gabba
    gabba:
    If she had asked any questions at all about the work environment, the workflow, the deployment process -- anything at all, really -- the conversation would inevitably have uncovered the WTFs she described here. I'm guessing she didn't ask any questions at all, just answered the interviewer's questions and left.

    What makes you think they would have given a legit answer?

    Q: Do you use source control? A: We use VSS.

    Q: Do you have a network? A: Nobody would ask this question!

    Q: How do you store files A: Nobody would ask this question, the given answer is 99% of the time "on a file server"

    Q: What kind of database do you use? A: We use SQL Server

    Q: How often do you back up? A: Every x days, since they seemed to equate "backing up" with the crap way they did it. This is also one of those "Nobody asks, because it should be a common thing"

    I have been conned by similar "Okay, that sounds good" answers in response to questions, only to find out that nothing was as they described. Sometimes, asking questions doesn't guarantee that the place knows what they're talking about - unless you start drilling down into nonsensical stuff (Do you have a network? Do you use email? and the like) you'll never know, and if you DO drill down into questions like that, you come off looking like a stupid fool who's never worked a day in the business world, and wouldn't get hired.

    The REAL WTF is still that she didn't walk out the second she found about these "practices". It's only going to hurt her resume longterm - trust me from experience having worked at similar places :(

  • Scott (unregistered) in reply to Ozymandias

    If she were a developer, maybe I might agree, but even then it would be pushing it. But as a "Technical Manager" questions such as:

    What is your backup and recovery procedure? What is your deployment and testing procedure? Walk me through your development lifecycle from idea to deployment. How are defects tracked?

    etc.

  • SomeCoder (unregistered) in reply to ObiWayneKenobi
    ObiWayneKenobi:

    Q: Do you use source control? A: We use VSS.

    Q: Do you have a network? A: Nobody would ask this question!

    Q: How do you store files A: Nobody would ask this question, the given answer is 99% of the time "on a file server"

    Q: What kind of database do you use? A: We use SQL Server

    Q: How often do you back up? A: Every x days, since they seemed to equate "backing up" with the crap way they did it. This is also one of those "Nobody asks, because it should be a common thing"

    I have been conned by similar "Okay, that sounds good" answers in response to questions, only to find out that nothing was as they described. Sometimes, asking questions doesn't guarantee that the place knows what they're talking about - unless you start drilling down into nonsensical stuff (Do you have a network? Do you use email? and the like) you'll never know, and if you DO drill down into questions like that, you come off looking like a stupid fool who's never worked a day in the business world, and wouldn't get hired.

    The REAL WTF is still that she didn't walk out the second she found about these "practices". It's only going to hurt her resume longterm - trust me from experience having worked at similar places :(

    Yeah, most of the questions I ask during interviews are "What technologies do you use?" (if I happen to not know ahead of time which is rare) and "Is working 50-60 hour weeks every week mandatory?" (if it is, I'm not interested). I don't think to ask "Do you have email?" or "Do you have networks?" because... everyone does.

    Well... I thought everyone did...

  • ERTW (unregistered) in reply to erissian
    erissian:
    Look, I've tried to convince Adama, but in the end it's his ship.

    Nicely done sir. I tip my hat to you.

  • blog.thinkaloud.in (unregistered) in reply to jtl
    1. Criminals can enter buildings through "roofs".
    2. Criminals are bad.
    3. ROOFS are bad.

    We shall remove all ROOFS to protect the business.

    Gee! thats a roofless buisness.

    blog.thinkaloud.in

  • Peets (unregistered)

    (1) I really want to know what kind of business they "support" - they fall out of any kind of supplier audit or due diligence process I'd run

    (2) I'd really like to know how long they have been getting away with this - merely out of idle curiosity :-)

    (3) How do they update virus checkers? Oh wait, they don't need them because they have no network (only USB sticks getting out in the wild..)

    But above all, I'd have serious problems believing this is for real if it wasn't for the fact that I have walked into some strange situations too..

  • jmo21 (unregistered) in reply to Anon

    asking questions in interviews?

    i usually ask as many questions as possible about dev practices ie. source control, bug tracking, environments, do you have testers etc

    very often asking these questions will dig up other weird things

  • Stuart (unregistered) in reply to Dave
    Dave:
    To author this comment I had to type it on my desktop pc, but unfortunately my manager wont allow word on the desktop pcs since there are so many macro viruses. So ihave to use a usb key to take it to the MS office PC where i could spell check it.

    Now of course neither the MS office PC nor my desktop PC has network access so I need to take the file to the internet PC. However the internet PC is rather old and doesn't have a USB slot so I have to use save the spellchecked file onto my usb key and take it to my manager's laptop, which is the only one with a CD burner.

    I cant then burn the file onto CD to transfer onto the internet PC. Since the internet PC is rather popular I had to wait for an hour or so before it became available which meant that I needed to go back to the MS Office PC to spell check this new section talking about the delay for the Internet PC before taking it to my manager's PC so I could burn it onto another CD and finally copy it into the c:\slashdotposts folder. The slashdotposts folder has gradually feature creeped into holding comments for other sites. I was then finally able to transfer this comment onto the form and post it here.

    We do at least have version control however, a big stack of CDR's in a filing cabinet.

    It's the wooden desk for 2008!

  • Peets (unregistered) in reply to ThePhwner

    Yeah, I got one of those from a couple of years back (happend by accident). It's 30 meters of BNC-ended RG58 with a coupler linking the ends. I first tried a T-piece, but that would have still allowed access.

    Shakes head in disbelief..

  • sir_flexalot (unregistered) in reply to brettdavis4
    brettdavis4:
    If this story is true, it is hard to tell which is the bigger wtf.
    1. The IT in the office
    2. Not walking out the door on the first day.

    I agree, knowing what I know now about stuff like this, I would not come back after the first day, and I would highly encourage anyone in a situation like this to quit immediately after they refuse to implement a network.

  • James R. Twine (unregistered) in reply to Ken B
    Ken B:
    robzyc:
    Wait.. THIS computer is on the Internet!! Why didn't someone tell me! OMG!

    pulls plug

    ...

    Kids these days! Everyone knows that the right way to show that yo*^%^#%/@!)%$

    NO CARRIER

    Heh - beat me to it...! I was gonna post something similar while fashing back to the 300 baud modem on my VIC-20! :)

  • (cs)

    Assuming their software is actually decent, by far the worst part of this WTF is that the fixes are so simple yet they will probably never be implemented. Most articles on this site point out horrors that would take months of refactoring, or even a total rewrite, to fix. On top of that, you'd have to fire tons of incompetent developers and painfully try to recruit fresh talent. Here, they just need to get rid of that one Luddite and they're all set; they could have a proper network setup in a day.

    It's not that I don't believe this story, it's just that you'd think that everyone else in that place would have had other work experience where the used, you know, e-mail. Does everyone there just sit around and say, "You know, it's actually kind of nice regressing back to 1974."?

  • bp (unregistered) in reply to jtl
    jtl:
    1. Criminals can enter buildings through doors. 2. Criminals are bad. 3. Doors are bad.

    We shall remove all doors to protect the business.

    Don't forget to remove Windows too.

  • Bridge (unregistered) in reply to jtl

    You should warn them that viruses those days are likely to travel on usb sticks, my friend got one the other day. I would be curious to see the admin face...

  • Ben (unregistered)

    If I were Amanda, I would've told them where they could stick it and would've gone looking for a job with less bogons-per-manager.

    Srsly, who sticks around?

  • anonymous coward (unregistered) in reply to jtl

    Well, obviously a door makes it harder to enter a house than just a hole in the wall.

    While a network makes it easier.

  • Bill Lumbergh (unregistered) in reply to gabba

    Other important questions to ask during the interview:

    1. What is the company policy on employee theft?
    2. Would you help me load this sofa into my van?
    3. Do you know how to get blood out of a clown suit?
  • jonny s. (unregistered) in reply to corey
    corey:
    How desperate does someone have to be to not quit a place like that on the first day?

    Dude, think of the stories you'd have coming out of there if you stayed only three months. You'd have enough material to keep this website running for years!

  • OC (unregistered) in reply to snoofle
    snoofle:
    Lyle:
    I have the same situation. Only when I want to print a memo, I have to make my own paper.

    --Lyle

    If you're gonna do something, at least go all the way..

    I have to grow my own trees to make my own paper...

    "Here is your box of sand, build your own computer."

  • MitchAubin (unregistered)

    That is absolutely unbelievable!!

    How a software company that does web apps could possibly do it without having a network. Those people are certainly not aware of any security issue because they have no expertise in networking at all!!!

    Also, the Door thing, very funny!

  • mauhiz (unregistered)

    For once I really crave to know the name of this company

  • Rance Mohanitz (unregistered)

    Must be nice to have job experience, and the knowledge that you can walk out the door and right into another job if you don't like the job you're in. Unfortunately, we're not all in the same situation as those with that level of experience and job confidence. If you're living in the middle of the Midwest, and the best job you can find is an hour away for crap wages, you're not going to turn around and walk out of the interview. You're going to hold onto that job like it was an infant, and hope like hell that you don't lose it, craptastic boss or not.

  • Benie (unregistered) in reply to jtl

    Use "Emergancy" doors so an alarm goes off if someone tries to enter.. :P

  • Lyle's Daddy (unregistered) in reply to snoofle

    I have to eat the seeds from the tree, poop them into the soil and THEN grow my own tree to make my own paper. Hah!

  • Lyle's Daddy (unregistered) in reply to mauhiz

    Microsoft.

  • (cs)

    All their problems can be easily solved: use git for version control. A DVCS does not require a network, and update-by-thumbdrive would work perfectly. Branches are easy and private, which solves their problem with multiplicity of versions. With a copy of the entire history on every dev machine you will no longer need backups. There, all programming-related problems are gone. Having no email will still suck, but if they use scrum, they won't need that either. As for the "company diary", I have no idea what that is, so I'll decline to answer.

  • OstrichFarm (unregistered)

    I can see that employee retention and solvency is not a priority.

    Those problems will sort themselves out soon enough.

  • (cs) in reply to jtl

    "QED: networks are bad. It's obvious when you really think about it! Therefore, there is no company network."

    Hey, it's good enough for Galactica, Amanda. Or should I say Adama!

  • Dazed (unregistered) in reply to yo joe
    yo joe:
    brettdavis4:
    If this story is true, it is hard to tell which is the bigger wtf.
    1. The IT in the office
    2. Not walking out the door on the first day.
    More like walk out within the first hour.
    What a bunch of defeatists. I've walked into a position that wasn't a whole lot better than this. Within three months (with considerable help from a couple of people who joined about the same time, and a fair bit of hindrance from a couple of jerks in the IT department) I'd turned it round. It wasn't paradise, but things were starting to function.

    Sometimes it's possible to fix situations like this, sometimes it's not. But people who give up on the first day are just spoiled brats.

  • BJ Upton (unregistered) in reply to Ben

    They still paying in money? Then I'd stick around until I found something else.

    It's a ridiculous work environment. But no one's hassling you too much. I can deal with the stupid for a little while and look for something else as long as I'm not being abused.

    And they are clearly too stupid to really bring too much abuse, more than just the stupid

  • anon (unregistered)

    What a load of Bull Shit! If anyone that reads this and believes this should do a barrel roll!

  • James O'Brien (unregistered)

    You are being set up as the scapegoat when everything blows up. Run, don't walk out the door and get another job.

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