• (cs) in reply to cynic

    No doubt that English is a flexible language that is constantly evolving. It just find quirks like this amusing.

    I am from Boston, so irregardless of what you tell me about grammar, I will continue to push for irregardless to become proper grammar.

  • Jon B (unregistered) in reply to Sgt. Preston
    Sgt. Preston:
    Anon Fred:
    I read the store name as "The Book Burner." Now I want to start a store with that name...
    I gather you're a Republican.

    Just when I thought we couldn't possibly get more off topic.

    I'm sure this forum comprises both Democrats and Republicans :)

    CAPTCHA: muhahaha

  • Sgt. Preston (unregistered) in reply to Jon B
    Jon B:
    Sgt. Preston:
    Anon Fred:
    I read the store name as "The Book Burner." Now I want to start a store with that name...
    I gather you're a Republican.

    Just when I thought we couldn't possibly get more off topic.

    I'm sure this forum comprises both Democrats and Republicans :)

    CAPTCHA: muhahaha

    Forgive me. I'll rephrase...

    <sarcasm>I gather you're a Republican.</sarcasm>

  • SteveG (unregistered) in reply to halber_mensch

    I keep waiting for someone to propose using inheritance instead.

    (Does the captcha "tastey" smell like misspellling to anyone else?)

  • (cs) in reply to akatherder
    akatherder:
    Linux...:
    If getting someone to run anti-virus software and patches was an issue, if they had no money to buy new equipment, if keeping up with the latest anti-spyware was a problem, if security roles were all messed up... why didn't they just run Linux and fix 90% of their problems at once?

    Judging by the computer knowledge of everyone involved, I suspect the user error would increase as the system errors decreased.

    Yeah, I've got to agree here.

    My first thought was, "If they don't want to pay for software, they should just go 100% open source and install Linux." Then I remembered how much fun getting Linux to work on arbitrary hardware is--mind you, I'm serious, I love Linux and think that messing with it can be great fun. But this crew? Oh Boy. I'd give them ten minutes into the first install before someone utters "Can we go back to Windows 95 now?"

  • (cs) in reply to phaedrus
    phaedrus:
    My first thought was, "If they don't want to pay for software, they should just go 100% open source and install Linux." Then I remembered how much fun getting Linux to work on arbitrary hardware is--mind you, I'm serious, I love Linux and think that messing with it can be great fun. But this crew? Oh Boy. I'd give them ten minutes into the first install before someone utters "Can we go back to Windows 95 now?"

    Getting Linux to work on arbitrary old hardware is generally quite easy: open the box, write down the numbers on all the big chips, and select the appropriate drivers in the kernel configuration. This gives you a working kernel, and from there, setting up networking and X is pretty straightforward.

    This is assuming the hardware is new enough to support Ethernet and 16- or 32-bit display modes. If you're stuck with token-ring or palletized display modes, things can get exciting.

  • Talentless Newbie (unregistered) in reply to cynic

    <muted>Hear, hear!</muted>

    With all due respect to purists, I'd take this even further by pointing out that a language is only as useful as it is malleable. If usage patterns aren't allowed to change over time, expressiveness suffers as a result.

  • Pete (unregistered)

    I don't get it. What's so expensive about surge protectors? $35 would get you a rated single power socket one (for the server). $5 gets you a cheap unrated powerboard with surge protection (but no warranty).

    The above obviously isn't what you'd use in a data centre, but, is certainly a simple and cost effective solution for the struggling small family business.

  • swordfishBob (unregistered) in reply to cynic
    The funny thing about language is that usage defines the language. Given sufficient improper usage, that usage can eventually become proper.

    We have.. "stories" in place of "story's" "are you sure you now?" "you forgot to site your source" (actually he sited it on worsethanfailure.com but without citing) "usage" for "use"

    These comprise improper use (usage?).

    Sorry. I was feeling xevious (captcha) seeing all the grammar police about. And leave my granma out of it!

  • (cs) in reply to Talentless Newbie
    Talentless Newbie:
    <muted>Hear, hear!</muted>

    With all due respect to purists, I'd take this even further by pointing out that a language is only as useful as it is malleable. If usage patterns aren't allowed to change over time, expressiveness suffers as a result.

    Whenever some grammar nut tries to correct me on something like that, I explain that I'm innovating the language.

  • (cs) in reply to swordfishBob
    swordfishBob:
    The funny thing about language is that usage defines the language. Given sufficient improper usage, that usage can eventually become proper.

    We have.. "stories" in place of "story's" "are you sure you now?" "you forgot to site your source" (actually he sited it on worsethanfailure.com but without citing) "usage" for "use"

    These comprise improper use (usage?).

    Sorry. I was feeling xevious (captcha) seeing all the grammar police about. And leave my granma out of it!

    the grammer puns are getting out of control.

    (ok I had to do one last one)

  • Woosta (unregistered) in reply to swordfishBob

    I'm a POS developer. (that's not the punchline, I swear)

    At our office, we have a few rooms full of point-of-sale registers for testing. Our office recently lost power (construction in the office park, I think, caused the problem). Everything shuts down, then the building's backup kicks in. Five minutes later, I go into the room with the registers to test something. We lose power, apparently due to overwhelming our building's battery/generators. The building's battery/generator then kicks in again.

    There's nothing quite like hearing 20-30 machines, including thermal printers, restart simultaneously around you.

    (Oh, and this cycle repeated for roughly 30 minutes until non-essential hardware was turned off.)

  • Me (last time I looked) (unregistered) in reply to doug
    doug:
    Talentless Newbie:
    <muted>Hear, hear!</muted>

    With all due respect to purists, I'd take this even further by pointing out that a language is only as useful as it is malleable. If usage patterns aren't allowed to change over time, expressiveness suffers as a result.

    Whenever some grammar nut tries to correct me on something like that, I explain that I'm innovating the language.

    The problem is that the current vogue is REDUCING the expressiveness of the language by simply using the same words for things.
  • (cs) in reply to rank this
    rank this:
    KattMan, you also need some Reading comprehension... The Power Surge that killed the computers happened in the Present Tense.

    How did the boss know there was a power surge?

    There is no indication in the story that the boss' (who is the only known reported of the alleged power surge) diagnosis of the situation was correct.

  • Curtis (unregistered)

    The off-topic fairy has come, and he grants you a chunk of a random Wikipedia article:

    In 2000, Kaizers Orchestra recorded the Kaizers Orchestra EP, an EP containing four songs: "Bastard", "Bøn fra Helvete", "Katastrofen" and "Dekk Bord". During by:Larm, a Norwegian festival focusing on the artists of tomorrow, the band's songs were played frequently on the radio. Kaizers Orchestra's special sound and creative use of instruments was noticed by the small, Scandinavian label Broiler Farm. Their first album, Ompa Til Du Dør (Ompa 'Til You Die), was released on this label in September 2001. It was critically acclaimed and became a success, first in Norway, later in Denmark and the Netherlands. The album won a Spellemannpris (Norwegian Grammy) for “best rock album”, as well as two Alarm-awards (underground version of Spellemannprisen). “Ompa til du dør” also made Kaizers Orchestra the highest-selling rock debut to be released in the Norwegian language. The second album, Evig Pint (Eternally Tormented), was released in February 2003. The third album, Maestro was released on August 15, 2005 in Norway and Europe. They have made six music videos so far, for the songs Kontroll På Kontinentet, Mann Mot Mann, Evig Pint, Maestro, Knekker deg til sist and Blitzregn Baby (Live). In connection with the release of Maestro, Kaizers Orchestra signed an international record deal with Universal Germany.

  • DF (unregistered) in reply to Anon

    Note how the definition includes "of" and look at their example sentence. The correct use here would have been, "Servers were of the Frankensteinian variety, and comprised hardware that store employees didn't need anymore. What you really meant to highlight was the idiomatic use case "Idiom4".

  • Crash Magnet (unregistered) in reply to Sgt. Preston

    Book Burner: (n) Publish on demand.

    Crash Magnet

  • IAmFail (unregistered) in reply to rd
    rd:
    I read it several time now and still don’t get it.

    You're not alone. I've read it through a few times, then read the comments, but I still thinking I'm missing something.

  • (cs) in reply to Someone You Know
    Someone You Know:
    Jake Vinson:
    Servers were of the Frankensteinian variety, comprised of hardware that store employees didn't need anymore.

    "Comprised" != "composed". Using less common words in an attempt to sound more intelligent usually makes one sound less intelligent.

    You might want to inform Merriam and Webster that "comprised" does not mean "composed" http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/comprised

  • v (unregistered) in reply to Doug
    Doug:
    Cuttie McPasty:
    Although “comprise” is used primarily to mean “to include,” it is also often stretched to mean “is made up of”—a meaning that some critics object to. The most cautious route is to avoid using “of” after any form of “comprise” and substitute “is composed of” in sentences like this: “Jimmy’s paper on Marxism was composed entirely of sentences copied off the Marx Brothers Home Page.”

    You forgot to site your source.

    Brillant!

  • NotanEnglishMajor (unregistered) in reply to Doug
    Doug:
    Cuttie McPasty:
    Although “comprise” is used primarily to mean “to include,” it is also often stretched to mean “is made up of”—a meaning that some critics object to. The most cautious route is to avoid using “of” after any form of “comprise” and substitute “is composed of” in sentences like this: “Jimmy’s paper on Marxism was composed entirely of sentences copied off the Marx Brothers Home Page.”

    You forgot to site your source.

    No. He forgot to CITE his source.

    -Notan

  • Jon (unregistered)

    What I don't get is why someone would write "is comprised of" when it is easier to type "comprises." It avoids the usage dispute, too.

  • Zygo (unregistered) in reply to akatherder
    akatherder:
    Linux...:
    If getting someone to run anti-virus software and patches was an issue, if they had no money to buy new equipment, if keeping up with the latest anti-spyware was a problem, if security roles were all messed up... why didn't they just run Linux and fix 90% of their problems at once?

    Judging by the computer knowledge of everyone involved, I suspect the user error would increase as the system errors decreased.

    In my experience this is true, but there are qualitative differences.

    On Windows, system failures are often disastrous, data-destroying, service-denying errors. Although it's often possible to fix things up manually, it's usually easier to just reinstall/reload from backup. Users generally believe they are more competent than they really are, which means they often turn bad problems into really awful problems before picking up the phone and asking for help.

    On Linux, the system errors are fairly benign (unless your hardware is really falling apart), and the machines patiently ignore users' attempts to resolve their own problems by randomly mucking with the software infrastructure. Users generally believe they are less competent than they really are, and in my experience this delays them just enough for me to get between the user and the system before any real damage is done.

    Of course, generalities like this go straight out the window if users are writing their own software (e.g. the retail POS package was written by the boss's nephew). Accidental SQL injection, buffer overruns, quoting bugs, giving ordinary users administrative privileges, and similar issues arise on every platform.

  • dubya (unregistered)

    this is a bit of a confusing story... the part that reads... "We had a power surge that killed all of the computers since we don't have surge protectors! The POS system won't come up at all anymore!" ...suggests that gilbert had tried turning the computers back on already. well it did to me. All seems a bit poorly explained. hmmm

  • Zygo (unregistered) in reply to Sgt. Preston
    Sgt. Preston:
    if you use sense 3 you may be subject to criticism for doing so, and you may want to choose a safer synonym such as compose or make up.

    Well, those Webster's guys certainly got one thing right!

    ("burned" ;-)

  • (cs) in reply to snoofle
    snoofle:
    I've never had it quite that bad, but my brother, a CPA, has his own business, and generally only does an upgrade or buys something when a fire extinguisher gets involved.

    He could no longer upgrade the software, and win-98 was getting pretty rank, when something critical finally failed. The replacement was easy enough, but it was incompatible with pretty much everything else in the office.

    After 2 weeks of zero productivity for his staff, he relented and gave me his checkbook (he actually does quite well).

    I bought all brand new pc's with identical innards, 2 brand new servers, all brand new tape drives, raid arrays, upgraded the network to GB ethernet, made a system master disk and blasted it to all the machines, and diagrammed the network. Sadly, the only lesson he got from all that was that the total cost of the complete rebuild was way less than what he would have spent on all of the ongoing upgrades he should have been doing all along. sigh

    Interestingly, the one thing he did right all along was proper backups, including periodic testing...

    I don't get your point. It sounds to me like your brother is a savvy business man. He used his tools for as long as they worked. When it stopped working, he got new tools. He saved money in the long run, over the Keep Up With the Jonses who upgrade their tools constantly.

    While it might have be possible to have saved even more money if he had purchased more efficient tools when they came out.

    Of course having his staff unprodcutive for 2 weeks didn't save all that much money, but that doesn't have much to do with not upgrading the tools sooner.

  • Badger (unregistered) in reply to Doug

    Since OK is an abbreviation (albeit a slightly broken one), I believe your sentence "I for one think it is incorrect usage, but like most things in English, it is now ok (sic)." is incorrect.

    Therefore, please don't criticise others.

  • Martini (unregistered) in reply to Doug#1
    Doug#1:
    No doubt that English is a flexible language that is constantly evolving. It just find quirks like this amusing.

    I am from Boston, so irregardless of what you tell me about grammar, I will continue to push for irregardless to become proper grammar.

    Die, now.

  • (cs) in reply to Zygo
    Zygo:
    On Linux, the system errors are fairly benign (unless your hardware is really falling apart), and the machines patiently ignore users' attempts to resolve their own problems by randomly mucking with the software infrastructure. Users generally believe they are less competent than they really are, and in my experience this delays them just enough for me to get between the user and the system before any real damage is done.

    The main exception to this is that people love to screw around with xorg.conf based on "tweaks" they find online. Fortunately it really is quite hard to totally bone your system that way, just the gui.

    Also, programmers make the most annoying goddam grammar pedants. Let it go! Breathe! It'll be okay.

  • (cs) in reply to Martini
    Martini:
    Doug#1:
    No doubt that English is a flexible language that is constantly evolving. It just find quirks like this amusing.

    I am from Boston, so irregardless of what you tell me about grammar, I will continue to push for irregardless to become proper grammar.

    Die, now.

    I concede that we have misunderestimated the situation.

  • vern (unregistered) in reply to Remy
    Remy:
    At least he figured out what was eating Gilbert.
    Was it ... Grapes?
  • digdug (unregistered)

    Proven technologies in POS systems? Are you kidding me?

  • UFie (unregistered) in reply to Anon Fred

    So that you can have a fire-sale?

  • (cs)

    I worked with such a system once. The boss' son did the current "system administration"... he was 15.

    So let me describe the hardware.

    There were 2 servers... 1 application 1 database. Now the application server had multiple terminals, each with a screen and keyboard (no not color screen, the orange and black screens from the 1960s). The OS must have been dos at best... Basically we had to memorize all the single-character commands and deal with bugs which existed for at least 40 years...

    The web site was managed by a 15yr old boy who apparently had better things to do...

    So yea top notch stuff, I bet a kid with some spare time and a C++ compiler could have written something better...

    So... for 1960 this must have been the best system out there... For 2004 it was not. Did I mention searching there meant that we had to memorize every single product code in the system because there was no easy way to search the product description since it was a string of... 20 chars? Also the internal IDs we had to search for were NOT corresponding to the IDs in the catalog which customers looked though.

    If they let use just type in Plain ol' SQL we would have had an easier time. And god forbid you made an error during checkout... you had to start EVERYTHING from the beginning which made customers really annoyed.

    Did I mention they had a 40 yr old printer which jammed every 2nd page which printed 4 page receipts?

  • Uber (unregistered) in reply to IAmFail
    IAmFail:
    rd:
    I read it several time now and still don’t get it.

    You're not alone. I've read it through a few times, then read the comments, but I still thinking I'm missing something.

    I think there were no power surges or anything like that, just that they had all the power cords connected to some sort of thing that for some reason the boss was unpluging to plug his coffee machine.

    And if you don't like my grammar, come check my homeboys wearing their BLING (I really liked this captcha)

  • (cs)

    This thread is a WTF.

  • (cs)

    It's funny watching yanks argue over 'correct English' when they can't even spell 'favour', 'neighbour', 'harbour' etc correctly.

    I suppose that language is basically a democratic. If enough people start doing/saying something the wrong way, after a while it becomes the right way.

  • (cs) in reply to snoofle
    snoofle:
    Sadly, the only lesson he got from all that was that the total cost of the complete rebuild was way less than what he would have spent on all of the ongoing upgrades he should have been doing all along. *sigh*

    Did he include the cost of the two weeks of unproductive employees?

  • Angular schoolmarm (unregistered) in reply to Doug
    Doug:
    So he should drop the 'of' or go to composed.
    I used to be a grammar nazi, but I got over it.
  • Kuba (unregistered) in reply to gabba
    gabba:
    So ... we are to believe that despite the absence of surge protectors, the surge failed to damage the computers; instead it just turned them off? Interesting.

    Surge isn't very descriptive. Unless the poster had a transient monitoring device hooked up to the line, and said device actually recorded a surge (transient significant overvoltage), I don't believe it.

    There was simply a line dropout, or a brownout, and the machines were set up to stay off when the power returned.

    Nothing much here, the "surge" was merely a pretext for telling the rest of the story.

    Cheers!

  • Anonymous (unregistered)

    So the IT guy gets to be the hero, and we all feel good?

  • Anonymous (unregistered) in reply to Kuba
    Kuba:
    ...
    Kuba, meaning the historic African kingdom / peoples now part of the Congo?
  • (cs)

    You can get away with just ensuring business continuity(proper backups) and data security(secured computers, anti-virus updates etc). Hardware changes are only needed when they stop providing the means to serve the business needs. Doing anything else is a waste money. Choosing to use or not use surge protectors is also a business decision. Power surges are relatively rare, up to being damn unlikely in urban areas where there are no air lines that could short or be struck by lightning(in witch case surge protectors are useless, lightning burns through almost anything even remotely conductive). If proper backups of business critical data are in place, its the cost of the protectors vs the cost of replacing all the computers in case of a very bad failure that has a certain probability of happening depending on the state of the buildings wiring and the way power gets to the place of business. Its up to the business to decide if the risk weighs up the expense.

  • blarg (unregistered) in reply to werdan
    werdan:
    It's funny watching yanks argue over 'correct English' when they can't even spell 'favour', 'neighbour', 'harbour' etc correctly.

    Hear hear!

    werdan:
    I suppose that language is basically a democratic. If enough people start doing/saying something the wrong way, after a while it becomes the right way.

    I wish I had a robust counter-argument, but sadly, I believe your supposition is - and always will be - correct.

    I'm not so taken with your usage of "democratic" as a noun, though. I can't see it catching on, I'm afraid.

    ;)

  • awt (unregistered) in reply to Anon
    Anon:
    Someone You Know:
    Jake Vinson:
    Servers were of the Frankensteinian variety, comprised of hardware that store employees didn't need anymore.

    "Comprised" != "composed". Using less common words in an attempt to sound more intelligent usually makes one sound less intelligent.

    com·prise /kəmˈpraɪz/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kuhm-prahyz] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –verb (used with object), -prised, -pris·ing. 1. to include or contain: The Soviet Union comprised several socialist republics.
    2. to consist of; be composed of: The advisory board comprises six members.
    3. to form or constitute: Seminars and lectures comprised the day's activities.
    —Idiom4. be comprised of, to consist of; be composed of: The sales network is comprised of independent outlets and chain stores.

    dumbass

    Yes, comprise = be composed of. So comprised of = ?

  • iogy (unregistered)
    Using less common words in an attempt to sound more intelligent usually makes one sound less intelligent.
    On a similar note, what the hell is up with "utilize" when "use" will do just fine? "Congratulations! You've just wasted 4 keystrokes!"
  • EPE (unregistered)

    Sometimes, when power goes almost (but not completely) off, ATX power supply units may enter a 'zombie' status, where they simply refuse to start. They are not damaged, as a simple unplug-wait-plug will bring them back to life.

    Imagine a desperate business owner, the morning after a thunderstorm when all of their computers refuse to boot... now picture his face when you tell him to just unplug-wait-plug them!

  • EPE (unregistered)

    Sometimes, when power goes almost (but not completely) off, ATX power supply units may enter a 'zombie' status, where they simply refuse to start. They are not damaged, as a simple unplug-wait-plug will bring them back to life.

    Imagine a desperate business owner, the morning after a thunderstorm when all of their computers refuse to boot... now picture his face when you tell him to just unplug-wait-plug them!

  • EPE (unregistered)

    Sometimes, when power goes almost (but not completely) off, ATX power supply units may enter a 'zombie' status, where they simply refuse to start. They are not damaged, as a simple unplug-wait-plug will bring them back to life.

    Imagine a desperate business owner, the morning after a thunderstorm when all of their computers refuse to boot... now picture his face when you tell him to just unplug-wait-plug them!

  • Lynx@Work (unregistered) in reply to EPE
    EPE:
    Sometimes, when power goes _almost_ (but not completely) off, ATX power supply units may enter a 'zombie' status
    Hmm, sort of like your triple-posting mode? :)

    100th post!

    CAPTCHA: quake. As in, shoot Zombies. :P

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