The Daily WTF: Curious Perversions in Information Technology

KattMan · 2011-07-01 Reply Admin

Umm Frist?

Damn now I'm doing it.

Of course, those might be the nearest jobs they have listed to florida.

2011-07-01 Reply Admin

That method for quitting a program actually looks kind of compelling.

2011-07-01 Reply Admin

With all those slashes in the csv's name, I'm sure he has a very well organized directory tree.

2011-07-01 Reply Admin

Paddy should have just ticked "I Don't Know"

KattMan · 2011-07-01 Reply Admin

As for the quit, perhaps it is a question and answer thing, should have punctuated it properly...

Quit? Yes, quit!

2011-07-01 Reply Admin

Sadly, OS X has been using file extensions as the default typing method for the last few releases. It sucks balls.

Regardless, the correct extension for CSV files is, in fact, .txt.

Lockwood · 2011-07-01 Reply Admin

TRWTF is Macs.

2011-07-01 Reply Admin

KattMan:
As for the quit, perhaps it is a question and answer thing, should have punctuated it properly...
Quit? Yes, quit!

I'm guessing if you just click Quit, it will ask you "Are you sure you want to quit?", so having that menu item is a shortcut.

boog · 2011-07-01 Reply Admin

Yes, Quit

Only one option? What if I change my mind at that point?

2011-07-01 Reply Admin

Nope. It's just the slashes.

2011-07-01 Reply Admin

On the TV Show listing...not only is nullMing-Na wrote...but right after they list Camille Wray...who is not an actor but a character...who coincidently is played by Ming-Na...

2011-07-01 Reply Admin

Rob:
Sadly, OS X has been using file extensions as the default typing method for the last few releases. It sucks balls.
Regardless, the correct extension for CSV files is, in fact, .txt.

While I realize that it is text, why is that the correct extension? Seems pretty reasonable that most people would want the default application for .txt files to be a text editor and the default application for a .csv to be a spreadsheet? Why is any file extension ever prohibited? Yea, it's great to have some basic defaults, but I should always be able to save anything with whatever extension I want, regardless of what some shitty OS thinks I should want.

frits · 2011-07-01 Reply Admin

I'd wager IntelleliSurvey needs 0s in the blank text boxes to work correctly. 0.0 - Also my GPA.

frits · 2011-07-01 Reply Admin

TRWTF is MAC users don't understand they can just change the file extension later.

2011-07-01 Reply Admin

frits:
TRWTF is MAC users don't understand they can just change the file extension later.

No, TRWTF is operating systems that require file extensions.

frits · 2011-07-01 Reply Admin

cheapie:
frits:
TRWTF is MAC users don't understand they can just change the file extension later.

No, TRWTF is operating systems that require file extensions.

Oh yeah? Which ones are those?

2011-07-01 Reply Admin

anon:
Why is any file extension ever prohibited? Yea, it's great to have some basic defaults, but I should always be able to save anything with whatever extension I want, regardless of what some shitty OS thinks I should want.

Because if you're an enlightened Mac user, you don't know what you want.

2011-07-01 Reply Admin

it looks like the survey just needs "100" filled into the "total" box.

2011-07-01 Reply Admin

survey:
it looks like the survey just needs "100" filled into the "total" box.

Maybe he had javascript disabled?

2011-07-01 Reply Admin

Just tried saving as a .csv and it worked fine. I'm not really sure what could have brought up that message.

neminem · 2011-07-01 Reply Admin

frits:
cheapie:
frits:
TRWTF is MAC users don't understand they can just change the file extension later.

No, TRWTF is operating systems that require file extensions.
Oh yeah? Which ones are those?

I'm assuming he's going for the fact that most OSes "require" file extensions to know what program to open a given file with, rather than scanning their contents, and potentially letting new programs add handlers to tell the OS how to determine if a file is theirs. Yes, you can open and save files without file types in any non-wtf-coded application in Windows, and presumably any other OS, it just won't know how to open them without you specifying (or you could do what I did, and bind null-extensioned files to notepad in the registry, cause they're human-readable more often than not.)

Personally? I'm happier my OS not scanning every file I try to open and determining "intelligently" what kind of file it is; I'm much happier that determination being an entirely trivial and obvious one. Otherwise, you get things like this one image API we've been using, where if you want it to make an image out of a text file, you have to call another function first to explicitly tell it, "don't try to open image files", else if the text file starts with the right few characters it'll think it's an image and barf. (Then when you're done, you have to call the function again to say, "alright, now try to open image files again".) Imagine if your OS did that.

(That said, the real wtf is Windows' default of "don't show file types". First thing I change on any computer ever. Why the frell did they decide on that?)

Also, yeah. That method of quitting is... nonstandard, and looks sort of silly, but I wouldn't actually go so far as to call it "bad". (Assuming there was a good reason to catch accidental quitting. If the reason was because it didn't ask if you wanted to save unsaved changes, then that would be a different wtf.)

Addendum (2011-07-01 11:54): The bug report generated as a result of that idiosyncrasy in that image API, "error while attempting to merge stamp" when starting stamp text with a lower case 'p', is one of the more amusing bug reports I've been assigned.

Rank Amateur · 2011-07-01 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
That method for quitting a program actually looks kind of compelling.

I agree. I bet it's faster and easier for the user than a Yes/No message box, but still protects the user from accidentally quitting due to a slip of the mouse.... assuming that such protection is needed (e.g., the program has a lengthy startup process).

Label works for me. What would be better? I don't need "No, Don't Quit."

2011-07-01 Reply Admin

Thomas:
With all those slashes in the csv's name, I'm sure he has a very well organized directory tree.

Slashes are only directory separators in the BSD API. In the rest of OS X, colon is the directory separator and slash is a permitted character in filenames. When you access the same files through the BSD API, colons are converted to slashes and vice versa.

cellocgw · 2011-07-01 Reply Admin

Zelda:
Just tried saving as a .csv and it worked fine. I'm not really sure what could have brought up that message.

As others have pointed out, it's a misdirected message due to the illegal "/" in the file name. You certainly can save files as .csv (or anything else your heart desires). It's helpful when, say, Excel knows enough to convert a FileName.csv as though it is a file full of comma-spaced-variable data. OTOH, if you've set the Finder not to show extensions, stupid things happen when you try to specify an extension in the Save dialog box. It's almost as Bleeped-up as Windows.

2011-07-01 Reply Admin

TRWTF is that pretty much describes the "plot" of every space sci-fi TV show ever made.

2011-07-01 Reply Admin

survey:
it looks like the survey just needs "100" filled into the "total" box.

Or 0's filled into the rest of the component boxes. Poor design, but not so much a WTF.

And I'll take this post to join the "Apple is the real WTF" bandwagon. :-)

Loren Pechtel · 2011-07-01 Reply Admin

frits:
I'd wager IntelleliSurvey needs 0s in the blank text boxes to work correctly. 0.0 - Also my GPA.

Yup. I've hit some surveys that worked that way. The WTF is the directions not noting that.

2011-07-01 Reply Admin

Macs aren't particular about file extensions. It's the application that you're using that's particular about file extensions.

2011-07-01 Reply Admin

TRWTF is that people purposefully break stuff to get these screen captures. Like disabling javascript.

hoodaticus · 2011-07-01 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
That method for quitting a program actually looks kind of compelling.

It beats the method my predecessor used in his code, which is random hard crash.

hoodaticus · 2011-07-01 Reply Admin

Loren Pechtel:
frits:
I'd wager IntelleliSurvey needs 0s in the blank text boxes to work correctly. 0.0 - Also my GPA.

Yup. I've hit some surveys that worked that way. The WTF is the directions not noting that.

TRWTF is not using a default value combined with client-side validation. Must have been written by one of our morons on this site who think Javascript validation is stupid.

2011-07-01 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
That method for quitting a program actually looks kind of compelling.

I especially like how "Yes, Quit" has a keyboard shortcut.

hoodaticus · 2011-07-01 Reply Admin

Rank Amateur:
Anonymous:
That method for quitting a program actually looks kind of compelling.

I agree. I bet it's faster and easier for the user than a Yes/No message box, but still protects the user from accidentally quitting due to a slip of the mouse.... assuming that such protection is needed (e.g., the program has a lengthy startup process).

Label works for me. What would be better? I don't need "No, Don't Quit."

You people have it all wrong. There should never be a "Are you sure you want to quit?" feature. I don't care if it's a fuel pump controller for the boosters on the space shuttle - users should rightly be punished for clicking things they shouldn't.

2011-07-01 Reply Admin

TRWTF is that windows boy doesn't get that Mac and every other OS in earth is case sensitive.

2011-07-01 Reply Admin

Not by default, it isn't.

D-Coder · 2011-07-01 Reply Admin

neminem:
frits:
cheapie:
frits:
TRWTF is MAC users don't understand they can just change the file extension later.

No, TRWTF is operating systems that require file extensions.
Oh yeah? Which ones are those?
I'm assuming he's going for the fact that most OSes "require" file extensions to know what program to open a given file with, rather than scanning their contents, <<...>>

Personally? I'm happier my OS not scanning every file I try to open and determining "intelligently" what kind of file it is; <<...>>

Except that the Mac OS doesn't scan the files. The file type and file creator are stored as metadata.

Maybe you're thinking of the Unix world's "file" command.

2011-07-01 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
TRWTF is that windows boy doesn't get that [Unix rip-off] and every other [Unix rip-off] [on] earth [shares property].

ShatteredArm · 2011-07-01 Reply Admin

Ah, GTKWave. Haven't used that one since college.

dgvid · 2011-07-01 Reply Admin

She doesn't look all that null to me: http://www.ming-na.com/. Maybe more of that could have kept the show on the air.

hoodaticus · 2011-07-01 Reply Admin

cheapie:
frits:
TRWTF is MAC users don't understand they can just change the file extension later.

No, TRWTF is operating systems that require file extensions.

Yeah, it would be better if they stored it in meta data as a MIME type.

Mason Wheeler · 2011-07-01 Reply Admin

Mark:
On the TV Show listing...not only is nullMing-Na wrote...but right after they list Camille Wray...who is not an actor but a character...who coincidently is played by Ming-Na...

TRWTF is nullable strings.

hoodaticus · 2011-07-01 Reply Admin

Mason Wheeler:
Mark:
On the TV Show listing...not only is nullMing-Na wrote...but right after they list Camille Wray...who is not an actor but a character...who coincidently is played by Ming-Na...

TRWTF is nullable strings.

Because large strings should be passed around on the stack? What a tool.

2011-07-01 Reply Admin

anon:
Rob:
Sadly, OS X has been using file extensions as the default typing method for the last few releases. It sucks balls.
Regardless, the correct extension for CSV files is, in fact, .txt.

While I realize that it is text, why is that the correct extension? Seems pretty reasonable that most people would want the default application for .txt files to be a text editor and the default application for a .csv to be a spreadsheet? Why is any file extension ever prohibited? Yea, it's great to have some basic defaults, but I should always be able to save anything with whatever extension I want, regardless of what some shitty OS thinks I should want.

I think the whole point of .csv files is for importing and exporting spreadsheet data. Thus, it is intended to be generally readable by all applications; in that case, the most sensible default application would be a text editor.

2011-07-01 Reply Admin

anon:
[qWhile I realize that it is text, why is that the correct extension? Seems pretty reasonable that most people would want the default application for .txt files to be a text editor and the default application for a .csv to be a spreadsheet? Why is any file extension ever prohibited? Yea, it's great to have some basic defaults, but I should always be able to save anything with whatever extension I want, regardless of what some shitty OS thinks I should want.

It has nothing do do with the OS; it's the shitty application (Apple Remote Desktop) that's generating the dialog.

And the reason is that the report is not a CSV file; it's a text file that's not guaranteed to conform to RFC 4180.

2011-07-01 Reply Admin

On the topic of the Mac screenshot:

Applications can set constraints on the allowed extensions for files when saving. This is useful, e.g. so you don't accidentially erase the extension while saving.
This particular application forgot to allow "CSV" as an extension, so it's the app's fault, not Mac's fault.
As you can see, the dialog clearly offers the option to override this descision, it's even selected as default. I can't remember when Windows allowed me to override a descision.
Mac still uses metadata for determining file type association. In case no metadata is found (for example, if you download something from the internet with a program that does not set mime type), the extension is used.

Next time you bash Mac OS X, please use it first. Thanks.

BTW, HFS+ allows any character (including '/' and NUL) in a filename, and can be either case sensitive or not.

2011-07-01 Reply Admin

Cookies The real WTF is the flavor.

Oatmeal? Are you crazy?!

2011-07-01 Reply Admin

Pinkie:
>Cookies The real WTF is the flavor.
Oatmeal? Are you crazy?!

So you don't like oatmealm, huh?

Well, that's fine so long as YOU KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT ABOUT IT!!!

2011-07-01 Reply Admin

SeySayux:
On the topic of the Mac screenshot:

As you can see, the dialog clearly offers the option to override this descision, it's even selected as default. I can't remember when Windows allowed me to override a descision.

"Use both", "Cancel", "Use .txt"

Where's "Use .csv"? That's all I want to do!

2011-07-01 Reply Admin

The last screenshot is of Apple Remote Desktop (developed by Apple).

The slashes in the filename are put in there by ARD by default; I didn't type those in. As others have commented, slashes are legal characters in Mac OS (which uses colons as directory separators). Removing the slashes does not prevent the error message.

ARD will just not allow you to use any extension other than ".txt".

Yes, I can change the extension later. It's just faster to do it right there in the save file dialog.

Mason Wheeler · 2011-07-01 Reply Admin

hoodaticus:
Mason Wheeler:
Mark:
On the TV Show listing...not only is nullMing-Na wrote...but right after they list Camille Wray...who is not an actor but a character...who coincidently is played by Ming-Na...

TRWTF is nullable strings.
Because large strings should be passed around on the stack? What a tool.

Of course not. Don't be ridiculous. But making a distinction between a null string and an empty string is kind of silly, and leads to errors like this. In any sensible language, a string is a reference type and null means the same thing as an empty string, not some other separate value.

Redefining Near

Leave a comment on “Redefining Near”