The Daily WTF: Curious Perversions in Information Technology

2014-02-11 Reply Admin

Norman Diamond's cat:
Neil:
Norman Diamond:
Testing backups was how I discovered how fucked up Windows 95 was, http://www.geocities.jp/hitotsubishi/w95_fdisk_format/.
If I've understood you correctly, FDISK was incorrectly calculating the partition's offset using modulo 1GB/8GB arithmetic?
For many years I thought Windows 95 fdisk was fucked and didn't know that the blame was actually on the combination of fdisk and format (and didn't know that Windows 98 was equally fucked). My experiments in 2009 revealed that some fucked modulo arithmetic in the format command was part of the problem. I think the modulus (divisor) in Windows 95 is equal to 1024*64*32*512 (yeah that is the 1GB point) and in Windows 98 is equal to 1024*255*63*512 (near but not exactly the 8GB point). If those operating systems are downloadable from MSDN you can probably reproduce the bugs today, if you have a VM with a virtual SCSI controller that doesn't have a virtual SCSI BIOS.

Back when I had to mess with stuff like that for os or db partitions, I never fully configured all of the available space. I'd always leave a small margin as a buffer for flaky tools. I had picked up these recommendations from the old vets. It came under the heading of "better safe than sorry". I vaguely remember one time while recovering something I was able to easily identify the logical end of partition by the data patterns.

2014-02-11 Reply Admin

Reductio Ad Ridiculousum:
Norman Diamond's cat:
Neil:
Norman Diamond:
Testing backups was how I discovered how fucked up Windows 95 was, http://www.geocities.jp/hitotsubishi/w95_fdisk_format/.
If I've understood you correctly, FDISK was incorrectly calculating the partition's offset using modulo 1GB/8GB arithmetic?
For many years I thought Windows 95 fdisk was fucked and didn't know that the blame was actually on the combination of fdisk and format (and didn't know that Windows 98 was equally fucked). My experiments in 2009 revealed that some fucked modulo arithmetic in the format command was part of the problem. I think the modulus (divisor) in Windows 95 is equal to 1024*64*32*512 (yeah that is the 1GB point) and in Windows 98 is equal to 1024*255*63*512 (near but not exactly the 8GB point). If those operating systems are downloadable from MSDN you can probably reproduce the bugs today, if you have a VM with a virtual SCSI controller that doesn't have a virtual SCSI BIOS.
Back when I had to mess with stuff like that for os or db partitions, I never fully configured all of the available space. I'd always leave a small margin as a buffer for flaky tools. I had picked up these recommendations from the old vets. It came under the heading of "better safe than sorry". I vaguely remember one time while recovering something I was able to easily identify the logical end of partition by the data patterns.

In this case, when a three gigabyte external SCSI hard drive cost the equivalent of US$500, you would have to know to leave TWO THIRDS of your drive unused as a buffer for a flaky OS.

Windows 95 and Windows 98 were so egregiously flaky that they should not have got out the door. Microsoft pretended their operating systems were warrantied to perform approximately as documented for a period of 90 days. Windows 95 egregiously failed in less that 90 days and was never fixed. If Microsoft had to honour their warranties instead of charging for upgrades, Bill Gates would be a millionaire (i.e. he would not be a billionaire).

2014-02-11 Reply Admin

Black Bart:
In the frist place, why did they give F.P. Dingbat the rights to "to SU on every machine in the company"?

Ah...that would be because F.P.Dingbat was the Third-Assistant-To-The-Chief-Cook-Bottle-Washer-And-Manager-In-Charge-Of-Poopery, making him a veritable legend in his own mind. F.P. Dingbat was an man who was Going Places! And after this little fiasco was traced back to him, I think it's fair to say he went there, in a big fat hurry!

2014-02-11 Reply Admin

Le Forgeron:
It's with customer like that that I dream of a state (or international ?) license with categories and points to use a computer, as for car, motocycle and truck.

In the past Congress in it's infinite Wisdom held Hearings on the idea of requiring Computer People to be licensed, bonded, and etc. Oh, it was to be the Greatest of Great Ideas! No more could any Tom, Dick, or Harriet pass themselves off as Computer Professionals! Nay!! They would have to present their Official Super-Duper Computer Professional License (suitable for display) in order to be allowed to do anything with Computers! What a Great Idea!!!

Feh. Even Wall Street hated it! "License these guys?!?", cried the suits. "Then there'd be even FEWER of them, and we'd have to pay them Even More! Oh, this is a Bad Idea!! We mean, it's the kind of bad that you may think is good, but no, this is really, really Bad!"

And, yea, it came to pass that...nothing was done. No licensing. No certification. No requirement for continuous updating of skills. No standardized curriculum. No long years toiling to gain the sheepskin. And, most importantly, no doctor-lawyer-and-civil-engineer-level salaries to go with it.

Drat.

(CAPTCHA: jugis - Huh? I'm shtill thirshty! Whaddya mean, the jugis empty?)

2014-02-12 Reply Admin

Ol' Bob:
Le Forgeron:
It's with customer like that that I dream of a state (or international ?) license with categories and points to use a computer, as for car, motocycle and truck.
...No licensing. No certification. No requirement for continuous updating of skills. No standardized curriculum. No long years toiling to gain the sheepskin...

But, but, waht about my MCSE?!?

tin · 2014-02-12 Reply Admin

Reductio Ad Ridiculousum:
Back when I had to mess with stuff like that for os or db partitions, I never fully configured all of the available space. I'd always leave a small margin as a buffer for flaky tools.

My technique was simply to use alternative tools to the crappy ones MS provided.

Bobby Tables · 2014-02-12 Reply Admin

Neil:
Bobby Tables:
Zacrath:
Sorry snoofle, the GNU OS does refuse to execute "rm -rf /".
Interestingly - that is correct: I tried rm -rf / - it complained and asked for --no-preserve-root to work. However rm -rf /* ran happily without the switch. Well, it didn't delete everything (some files were locked) but seems to have deleted enough.
# ls -al /
-bash: /bin/ls: No such file or directory
Oh, well - goodbye VM - you served me faithfully during the whole 2 minutes we were together.
Why waste time cloning a VM when you can set up a chroot jail?

Because I was setting up a VM anyway when I came across that comment and I thought it'd be fun to try it in a "live" system. Best case scenario - nothing happens, so I have a VM. Worst case scenario - the system is unusable and I have to go through the long process of clicking several times with a mouse again and endure the crippling realisation I've not really lost 2 minutes of not work (as I'm not babysitting the install).

All in all, I think I "wasted" about 30 seconds messing around with the VM as opposed to chrooting. Why exactly should I, or you, or anybody, be bothered by that?

2014-02-12 Reply Admin

herby:
Yes, you can delete slice 0. It will ruin your software. It won't be covered by warranty and will cost >$100/hr to fix (we will insist being paid in advance).
So yes, you can drive the vehicle over a cliff, but I don't think you will like the outcome, as it will be expensive to repair.

Really? My mind just exploded. Did you actually say "warranty"?

I wouldn't buy you lunch to install an operating system. And I'd hardly term that "repair" either.

My 8 year old niece could install an O/S. Stop making me laugh.

On another note, I want your customers.

2014-02-12 Reply Admin

WorldClass:
herby:
Yes, you can delete slice 0. It will ruin your software. It won't be covered by warranty and will cost >$100/hr to fix (we will insist being paid in advance).
So yes, you can drive the vehicle over a cliff, but I don't think you will like the outcome, as it will be expensive to repair.

Really? My mind just exploded. Did you actually say "warranty"?

I wouldn't buy you lunch to install an operating system. And I'd hardly term that "repair" either.

My 8 year old niece could install an O/S. Stop making me laugh.

On another note, I want your customers.

"Installing an operating system" will not get the system back into a useable state, fucktard. Unless by "usable" you mean "read e-mail and surf the 'net instead of doing actual work, because none of the software you need is installed or configured properly to do anything else".

chubertdev · 2014-02-12 Reply Admin

anonymous:
WorldClass:
herby:
Yes, you can delete slice 0. It will ruin your software. It won't be covered by warranty and will cost >$100/hr to fix (we will insist being paid in advance).
So yes, you can drive the vehicle over a cliff, but I don't think you will like the outcome, as it will be expensive to repair.

Really? My mind just exploded. Did you actually say "warranty"?

I wouldn't buy you lunch to install an operating system. And I'd hardly term that "repair" either.

My 8 year old niece could install an O/S. Stop making me laugh.

On another note, I want your customers.
"Installing an operating system" will not get the system back into a useable state, fucktard. Unless by "usable" you mean "read e-mail and surf the 'net instead of doing actual work, because none of the software you need is installed or configured properly to do anything else".

The fact that it is being used is not determined by its usage.

2014-02-12 Reply Admin

chubertdev:
anonymous:
WorldClass:
herby:
Yes, you can delete slice 0. It will ruin your software. It won't be covered by warranty and will cost >$100/hr to fix (we will insist being paid in advance).
So yes, you can drive the vehicle over a cliff, but I don't think you will like the outcome, as it will be expensive to repair.

Really? My mind just exploded. Did you actually say "warranty"?

I wouldn't buy you lunch to install an operating system. And I'd hardly term that "repair" either.

My 8 year old niece could install an O/S. Stop making me laugh.

On another note, I want your customers.
"Installing an operating system" will not get the system back into a useable state, fucktard. Unless by "usable" you mean "read e-mail and surf the 'net instead of doing actual work, because none of the software you need is installed or configured properly to do anything else".

The fact that it is being used is not determined by its usage.

To the user, "repair" is going to mean more than just a useable operating system.

chubertdev · 2014-02-12 Reply Admin

anonymous:
chubertdev:
anonymous:
WorldClass:
herby:
Yes, you can delete slice 0. It will ruin your software. It won't be covered by warranty and will cost >$100/hr to fix (we will insist being paid in advance).
So yes, you can drive the vehicle over a cliff, but I don't think you will like the outcome, as it will be expensive to repair.

Really? My mind just exploded. Did you actually say "warranty"?

I wouldn't buy you lunch to install an operating system. And I'd hardly term that "repair" either.

My 8 year old niece could install an O/S. Stop making me laugh.

On another note, I want your customers.
"Installing an operating system" will not get the system back into a useable state, fucktard. Unless by "usable" you mean "read e-mail and surf the 'net instead of doing actual work, because none of the software you need is installed or configured properly to do anything else".

The fact that it is being used is not determined by its usage.
To the user, "repair" is going to mean more than just a useable operating system.

So why didn't you say "repair" in the first place?

2014-02-12 Reply Admin

tin:
Reductio Ad Ridiculousum:
Back when I had to mess with stuff like that for os or db partitions, I never fully configured all of the available space. I'd always leave a small margin as a buffer for flaky tools.
My technique was simply to use alternative tools to the crappy ones MS provided.

That worked in my case too. After several months of trying to figure out what was going on and finally figuring out that Windows itself was fucking every external SCSI drive that it fdisked (in 1997, a dozen years before figuring out that the Windows format command shared the blame), I finally figured out that the PCMCIA-SCSI adapter's vendor had supplied formatting tools intended for use in Windows 3.1 but they also worked in Windows 95. After a few more months of testing, I found that my backups weren't getting destroyed any more.

I paid more for train fares going to the retail store where I'd bought the PC and peripherals, and going to a vendor of peripherals, than for the piece of shit operating system that Microsoft OEM'ed to the PC's vendor. The retail store lost money by opening new hard drives by other vendors and PCMCIA-SCSI adapters by other vendors, turning new saleable merchandise into used merchandise, while not being able to diagnose the problem. One vendor eventually figured out that Microsoft's shit was shit and the vendor eventually provided a download for victims of 95/98/ME.

2014-02-13 Reply Admin

chubertdev:
anonymous:
chubertdev:
anonymous:
WorldClass:
herby:
Yes, you can delete slice 0. It will ruin your software. It won't be covered by warranty and will cost >$100/hr to fix (we will insist being paid in advance).
So yes, you can drive the vehicle over a cliff, but I don't think you will like the outcome, as it will be expensive to repair.

Really? My mind just exploded. Did you actually say "warranty"?

I wouldn't buy you lunch to install an operating system. And I'd hardly term that "repair" either.

My 8 year old niece could install an O/S. Stop making me laugh.

On another note, I want your customers.
"Installing an operating system" will not get the system back into a useable state, fucktard. Unless by "usable" you mean "read e-mail and surf the 'net instead of doing actual work, because none of the software you need is installed or configured properly to do anything else".

The fact that it is being used is not determined by its usage.
To the user, "repair" is going to mean more than just a useable operating system.

So why didn't you say "repair" in the first place?

Because herby and WorldClass both mentioned it already, and I wasn't trying to repeat anything - just clarify it.

2014-02-13 Reply Admin

There are some disasters that are so stupidly epic on scope, the best thing to do is open a popcorn concession, sit back and watch the show.

chubertdev · 2014-02-13 Reply Admin

anonymous:
chubertdev:
anonymous:
chubertdev:
anonymous:
WorldClass:
herby:
Yes, you can delete slice 0. It will ruin your software. It won't be covered by warranty and will cost >$100/hr to fix (we will insist being paid in advance).
So yes, you can drive the vehicle over a cliff, but I don't think you will like the outcome, as it will be expensive to repair.

Really? My mind just exploded. Did you actually say "warranty"?

I wouldn't buy you lunch to install an operating system. And I'd hardly term that "repair" either.

My 8 year old niece could install an O/S. Stop making me laugh.

On another note, I want your customers.
"Installing an operating system" will not get the system back into a useable state, fucktard. Unless by "usable" you mean "read e-mail and surf the 'net instead of doing actual work, because none of the software you need is installed or configured properly to do anything else".

The fact that it is being used is not determined by its usage.
To the user, "repair" is going to mean more than just a useable operating system.

So why didn't you say "repair" in the first place?
Because herby and WorldClass both mentioned it already, and I wasn't trying to repeat anything - just clarify it.

You did a great job of doing the exact opposite.

2014-02-13 Reply Admin

chubertdev:
anonymous:
Because herby and WorldClass both mentioned it already, and I wasn't trying to repeat anything - just clarify it.

You did a great job of doing the exact opposite.

Let me try starting over.

WorldClass:
herby:
It will ruin your software ... will cost >$100/hr to fix ... will be expensive to repair.
I wouldn't buy you lunch to install an operating system. And I'd hardly term that "repair" either.
My 8 year old niece could install an O/S.

So, what part of "repair" and "fix" made anyone ever assume that simply reinstalling the OS would make everything good as new?

2014-02-13 Reply Admin

Bobby Tables:
Interestingly - that is correct: I tried rm -rf / - it complained and asked for --no-preserve-root to work. However rm -rf /* ran happily without the switch. Well, it didn't delete everything (some files were locked) but seems to have deleted enough.

Your shell most likely does the globbing (i.e., expanding *) so rm never sees *. All it sees is an array of relative paths and obeys. At the end of the day, the superuser is supposed to know what he's doing (or any user for that matter). If you screw up that's really your fault. RTFM, be careful, limit superuser access, etc. Don't blame your saw for cutting off your foot.

cat /dict/words | sort -R | head -n 1:
Interestingly, I've actually USED that. I was dropped to a "repair" prompt in the boot sequence on a linux box. Root wasn't mounted, it was running out of the initrd. I knew the busybox binary was there (as I had a shell...) but the symlinks for it's various functions weren't there.

Protip: UNIX-likes are generally happy to unlink files that are in use, which effectively means the files still exist on the storage device and the applicable file handles are still useful, but the names that users use to refer to those files no longer refer to the inode that represented the file. Just because you're using a particular process doesn't meant hat will prevent that process from being unlinked from the file system.

Protip 2: Once the last handle to the inode no longer referenced by a name in the file system is closed the file is effectively considered deleted. It is no longer accessible (aside from very low-level operations) and is considered free space available to be reallocated.

chubertdev · 2014-02-13 Reply Admin

anonymous:
So, what part of "repair" and "fix" made anyone ever assume that simply reinstalling the OS would make everything good as new?

Not having any software installed except for the OS means that it's exactly as good as new.

2014-02-13 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
cat /dict/words | sort -R | head -n 1:
Interestingly, I've actually USED that. I was dropped to a "repair" prompt in the boot sequence on a linux box. Root wasn't mounted, it was running out of the initrd. I knew the busybox binary was there (as I had a shell...) but the symlinks for it's various functions weren't there.

Protip: UNIX-likes are generally happy to unlink files that are in use, which effectively means the files still exist on the storage device and the applicable file handles are still useful, but the names that users use to refer to those files no longer refer to the inode that represented the file. Just because you're using a particular process doesn't meant hat will prevent that process from being unlinked from the file system.

I wish I had a hat that would prevent me from screwing up my computer.

Anonymous:
Protip 2: Once the last handle to the inode no longer referenced by a name in the file system is closed the file is effectively considered deleted. It is no longer accessible (aside from very low-level operations) and is considered free space available to be reallocated.

I'm a bit puzzled as to what these "Protip"s have to do with the post they're apparently in reply to....

2014-02-13 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
Protip: UNIX-likes are generally happy to unlink files that are in use, which effectively means the files still exist on the storage device and the applicable file handles are still useful, but the names that users use to refer to those files no longer refer to the inode that represented the file. Just because you're using a particular process doesn't meant hat will prevent that process from being unlinked from the file system.
Protip 2: Once the last handle to the inode no longer referenced by a name in the file system is closed the file is effectively considered deleted. It is no longer accessible (aside from very low-level operations) and is considered free space available to be reallocated.

What's in a name? that which we call a file By any other name would file_not_found; So rm would, were it not rm call'd, Retain that on-disk structure which it owes Without that filename. rm, doff thy name; And for that name, which is no part of thee, Take all my inodes.

2014-02-14 Reply Admin

chubertdev:
anonymous:
So, what part of "repair" and "fix" made anyone ever assume that simply reinstalling the OS would make everything good as new?

Not having any software installed except for the OS means that it's exactly as good as new.

"New" is the condition that E.T.'s company originally left it in, and probably included their Enterprise software to actually make it do something rather than just sit on a desk and look pretty. We are talking about a *nix server, not some secretary's Windows box.

2014-02-14 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
Bobby Tables:
Interestingly - that is correct: I tried rm -rf / - it complained and asked for --no-preserve-root to work. However rm -rf /* ran happily without the switch. Well, it didn't delete everything (some files were locked) but seems to have deleted enough.

Your shell most likely does the globbing (i.e., expanding *) so rm never sees *. All it sees is an array of relative paths and obeys. At the end of the day, the superuser is supposed to know what he's doing (or any user for that matter). If you screw up that's really your fault. RTFM, be careful, limit superuser access, etc. Don't blame your saw for cutting off your foot.

At the same time, people make mistakes. To take your saw example: IMO one of the coolest invention I know of relatively recently (I guess it was quite a while ago now; feels a lot more recent than it was) is the SawStop, which is a mechanism for detecting that you're in the midst of putting your hand into the sawblade and stopping the blade. Do you really think it's more reasonable for someone to go "well, a real carpenter would never do that; just be more careful" than "hey that's pretty cool, we should get one for our shop" other things being equal? Even less fancy saws still come with guards for the blades and such to keep you from messing up.

Tools don't make your mess up, but well-designed tools certainly make it less easy to do so.

And incidentally, a good shell will also prompt you if you run rm with a * argument.

2014-03-04 Reply Admin

[quote user="Anon"][quote user="Steve The Cynic"] Someone who never worked in a call centre.

You do anything legal and in-scope the customer asks, or you get fired. Period. End of line.[/quote]

Destroying a system if the customer does not declare that to be their intention, is not in scope, period. The call center rep who recommended this command should be fired.

2014-03-09 Reply Admin

"The customer told the support guy: That was my going away present to them. Thanks for your help."

FTFY

2014-04-04 Reply Admin

I always understood "The Customer is Always Right" to mean that any person who was wrong wasn't a customer any more.

2016-12-02 Reply Admin

reminds me of a line on a website "not always right" a customer was demanding something outrageous (i forget what it was) and the manager was refusing. "haven't you heard that the customer is always right?" "yes, i hear that every time someone tries to rip me off!"

2016-12-02 Reply Admin

oh, i just remembered another story: someone was "just trying to copy from one floppy to another", BUT his idiotic method was to FIRST copy all of the files from the floppy to the ROOT directory of the computer, THEN onto the second floppy...which might not sound so bad, but at least one of those files had the EXACT same name as an important SYSTEM file-so this ruined the operating system... but then he figured the computer was "just used up", so he did the same thing to at least 12 other computers...

2018-03-30 Reply Admin

oh, i just remembered another one: a stupid employee who didn't bother to read the copyright rules on the software licence used ONE licence to install something on a HUNDRED computers, causing the company to get hit with over a MILLION DOLLARS in copyright violation fines!

The Customer is Always Right

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