• (cs)

    FIrst!

    Thank you Akismet!

  • C-Octothorpe (unregistered)

    I thought this was going to be a white-paper on VSS...

    Close enough I guess.

  • (cs)

    Just call it redundancy and go right on to the next page.

  • (cs)

    That is exactlywhat happens when you do not provide training. Same mistake commited by my collegue.

  • (cs)

    Huh. I would seem to be potentially the frist post; that never happens. But I'm going to actually say something, against all protocol for such things, and thus probably prove myself incorrect.

    Anyway, I can't quite tell whether my sarcasm-detector is broken or not... do we get to complain about MS Office being buggy, or was IT right, and the issues with the "buggy edition" actually entirely PEBKAC-related? Cause it's not entirely obvious, and MS Office is kind of buggy (though it usually doesn't insert incorrect grammar... then again, sometimes it does, if you listen to its moronic grammar-checker.)

    edit: yup, I did. Go me. On the plus side, I have an edit button now.

  • fritters (unregistered)

    Actually, I think the Broken Edition is the one that everyone has.

  • C-Octothorpe (unregistered) in reply to neminem
    neminem:
    Huh. I would seem to be potentially the frist post; that never happens. But I'm going to actually say something, against all protocol for such things, and thus probably prove myself incorrect.

    Anyway, I can't quite tell whether my sarcasm-detector is broken or not... do we get to complain about MS Office being buggy, or was IT right, and the issues with the "buggy edition" actually entirely PEBKAC-related? Cause it's not entirely obvious, and MS Office is kind of buggy (though it usually doesn't insert incorrect grammar... then again, sometimes it does, if you listen to its moronic grammar-checker.)

    edit: yup, I did. Go me. On the plus side, I have an edit button now.

    I believe the story was referring to several people access the same document on a share at the same time...

    I open HR.docx, make my changes but keep it open. You open it and make your changes. I make some more changes and overwrite your changes... Seems like the lemmings couldn't figure it out.

  • El Tachyon (unregistered)

    I would love to see what happens if they had used Git instead. That would probably allow a true monster of a repository.

  • anon (unregistered)

    So TRWTF is using SVN, a program that only a moron would expect an HR department to use properly, instead of VSS, which was designed for this exact situation and requires little to no training.

  • Your Name (unregistered) in reply to C-Octothorpe
    C-Octothorpe:
    neminem:
    Huh. I would seem to be potentially the frist post; that never happens. But I'm going to actually say something, against all protocol for such things, and thus probably prove myself incorrect.

    Anyway, I can't quite tell whether my sarcasm-detector is broken or not... do we get to complain about MS Office being buggy, or was IT right, and the issues with the "buggy edition" actually entirely PEBKAC-related? Cause it's not entirely obvious, and MS Office is kind of buggy (though it usually doesn't insert incorrect grammar... then again, sometimes it does, if you listen to its moronic grammar-checker.)

    edit: yup, I did. Go me. On the plus side, I have an edit button now.

    I believe the story was referring to several people access the same document on a share at the same time...

    I open HR.docx, make my changes but keep it open. You open it and make your changes. I make some more changes and overwrite your changes... Seems like the lemmings couldn't figure it out.

    Nowadays, when you do this, Office pops up a message to the effect of "This document is currently in use by "some_dude_who_is_on_vacation_for_the_next_two_weeks", would you like to either [Open Read-Only Copy] or [Fuck Off]?"

    I swear, if they don't get concurrent editing in there soon, Google will eat their lunch. Google Docs is inferior to MSWord in every way except for concurrent editing of a document by multiple people on different computers, and that one feature makes me want to use it over Word if only my company gave the option to do so.

  • blastomite (unregistered)

    My first thought upon reading the conclusion is "WELCOME TO SHAREPOINT!!"

    The solution that is easily sold to an organization as the silver bullet to fix all your problems.

    And the largest repository of ProjectBRDv1.docx, ProjectBRDv2.doxc, ..., ProjectBRDvN files in an organization.

  • C-Octothorpe (unregistered) in reply to El Tachyon
    El Tachyon:
    I would love to see what happens if they had used Git instead. That would probably allow a true monster of a repository.

    Referring to my previous post about VSS, let them dump hundreds of thousands of man-hours into their work only to randomly get a corrupted repo store.

    Anytime a talk to somebody about VSS, their eyes glaze over as if they're talking about their war stories from 'nam...

  • herpometer (unregistered)

    This is exactly the type of situation sharepoint was made for. TRWTF is expecting HR types to be able to use SVN correctly.

  • C-Octothorpe (unregistered) in reply to herpometer
    herpometer:
    This is exactly the type of situation sharepoint was made for. TRWTF is expecting anobody to be able to use SVN correctly.

    FTFY

    /trolling

  • (cs)

    At least they got the system in there. All it takes to make it work properly is training.

    I do a lot of programming and had an uphill battle to fight in order to get THREE PEOPLE to use SVN.

    Now that they understand it though... it's wonderful.

  • Mr. S. (unregistered)

    Sharepoint is terrible. I'm sure you could at least eventually teach someone SVN, but you can't teach me a system doesn't suck terribly.

  • trtrwtf (unregistered) in reply to herpometer
    herpometer:
    This is exactly the type of situation sharepoint was made for.

    Yep. Distracting HR by giving them something shiny to play with. Doesn't actually do anything, but that's a feature, not a bug - they can't actually break anything with it.

  • (cs)

    I think this article shows that you can train HR to use SVN. After all, they were using it.

    But what you can't do is give them the freedom you'd give a development team. IT should have set up hook scripts to stifle the users' file-organizing creativity.

  • Shangra Lah (unregistered) in reply to anon
    anon:
    So TRWTF is using SVN, a program that only a moron would expect an HR department to use properly, instead of VSS, which was designed for this exact situation and requires little to no training.
    I read the "little to no training" part, and now there is a stream of coffee between the keyboard and the chair.
  • (cs)

    I have to wonder two things: first, which SVN client were they using? Because SmartSVN has hooks right into the Windows UI, which should make it much easier for HR types to use.

    Second, why was the IT department not monitoring the repo as it grew and nuking extraneous files (and wrist slapping whoever made them) as soon as they showed up for the first three months?

  • Pee-nut (unregistered)

    TRWTF is waiting until noon to post a story.

  • C-Octothorpe (unregistered) in reply to boog
    boog:
    I think this article shows that you can train HR to use SVN. After all, they were using it.

    But what you can't do is give them the freedom you'd give a development team. IT should have set up hook scripts to stifle the users' file-organizing creativity.

    By "using it", do you mean like monkeys that were told which pedal makes the car go vroom kind of "using it?"

  • kastein (unregistered) in reply to anon
    anon:
    So TRWTF is using SVN, a program that only a moron would expect an HR department to use properly, instead of VSS, which was designed for this exact situation and requires little to no training.
    Yeah, you just need someone to babysit your VSS server and frantically fix the database (though it's more of a tangled mess of randomly named flat files on a network share than an actual database) every few days/weeks when it falls over and chokes on something.

    VSS is unsafe at any speed.

    C-Octothorpe:
    El Tachyon:
    I would love to see what happens if they had used Git instead. That would probably allow a true monster of a repository.

    Referring to my previous post about VSS, let them dump hundreds of thousands of man-hours into their work only to randomly get a corrupted repo store.

    Anytime I talk to somebody about VSS, their eyes glaze over as if they're talking about their war stories from 'nam...

    eyes glazing over

    It was an uphill battle to get SVN used here instead of VSS and it was worth every muffled curse and headdesk.

  • b0b g0ats3 (unregistered) in reply to C-Octothorpe

    VSS = volume shadow services

    not visual source safe shudder

  • Father Time (unregistered) in reply to Pee-nut
    Pee-nut:
    TRWTF is waiting until noon to post a story.

    It's always noon somewhere...

  • (cs) in reply to C-Octothorpe
    C-Octothorpe:
    boog:
    I think this article shows that you can train HR to use SVN. After all, they were using it.

    But what you can't do is give them the freedom you'd give a development team. IT should have set up hook scripts to stifle the users' file-organizing creativity.

    By "using it", do you mean like monkeys that were told which pedal makes the car go vroom kind of "using it?"

    That's exactly what I mean. Let the monkeys push the pedal, just as long as all other operations (steering, braking, gear-shifting, navigating, headlights, windshield-wipers, seat-positioning, fiddling with the radio, windows, A/C, heater, etc.) are tightly-controlled and/or automated using processes maintained by IT.

  • (cs)

    TRWTF is going on and on about how broken Office and SVN are, then showing a screenshot of nothing but PDF documents.

  • (cs) in reply to GalacticCowboy
    GalacticCowboy:
    TRWTF is going on and on about how broken Office and SVN are, then showing a screenshot of nothing but PDF documents.

    Office 2010 can create PDF file from Word and Excel

  • (cs)

    booger, stop making useless arguments for sake of arguments.

    that is all!

    nagesh

  • Anon (unregistered) in reply to Father Time
    Father Time:
    Pee-nut:
    TRWTF is waiting until noon to post a story.

    It's always noon somewhere...

    Not at 12:01 pm it isn't.

  • French Fry Guy (unregistered) in reply to CaptainSmartass
    CaptainSmartass:
    which SVN client were they using? Because SmartSVN has hooks right into the Windows UI, which should make it much easier for HR types to use.

    I'm not sure if you're trolling or not, but that looks like TortoiseSVN, which IMO has better windows shell integration than SmartSVN and the extra added benefit of being free.

  • (cs) in reply to Nagesh
    Nagesh:
    booger, stop making useless arguments for sake of arguments.

    that is all!

    nagesh

    Why the indignant solicitation for silence, my noisy little nitwit?

  • empire (unregistered)

    TRWTF is that no one looked at their SVN repo that was likely hundreds of GB and said, hmmm, why is this so big?

  • Your Mum's Fish Tank (unregistered) in reply to empire
    empire:
    TRWTF is that no one looked at their SVN repo that was likely hundreds of GB and said, hmmm, why is this so big?
    I'd be willing to bet you're off by two orders of magnitude, but still...
  • (cs) in reply to empire
    empire:
    TRWTF is that no one looked at their SVN repo that was likely hundreds of GB and said, hmmm, why is this so big?
    Were it to be used properly, the size would have likely been exactly the same. In SVN, file copies/moves take just a metadata entry. The fact that "new" versions are saved under different names is immaterial. They still are saved in the repository, in one copy, no matter what the name is.
  • (cs) in reply to Kuba
    Kuba:
    empire:
    TRWTF is that no one looked at their SVN repo that was likely hundreds of GB and said, hmmm, why is this so big?
    Were it to be used properly, the size would have likely been exactly the same. In SVN, file copies/moves take just a metadata entry. The fact that "new" versions are saved under different names is immaterial. They still are saved in the repository, in one copy, no matter what the name is.

    Someone who knows how SVN works.

  • Nagesh's Other Sock Puppet (unregistered) in reply to Nagesh
    Nagesh:
    Kuba:
    empire:
    TRWTF is that no one looked at their SVN repo that was likely hundreds of GB and said, hmmm, why is this so big?
    Were it to be used properly, the size would have likely been exactly the same. In SVN, file copies/moves take just a metadata entry. The fact that "new" versions are saved under different names is immaterial. They still are saved in the repository, in one copy, no matter what the name is.

    Someone who knows how SVN works.

    Oh, are we using registered sock puppets now?

  • (cs) in reply to Nagesh's Other Sock Puppet
    Nagesh's Other Sock Puppet:
    Nagesh:
    Kuba:
    empire:
    TRWTF is that no one looked at their SVN repo that was likely hundreds of GB and said, hmmm, why is this so big?
    Were it to be used properly, the size would have likely been exactly the same. In SVN, file copies/moves take just a metadata entry. The fact that "new" versions are saved under different names is immaterial. They still are saved in the repository, in one copy, no matter what the name is.

    Someone who knows how SVN works.

    Oh, are we using registered sock puppets now?

    That joke is going over my head.

  • Super Nagesh (unregistered) in reply to Nagesh
    Nagesh:
    Nagesh's Other Sock Puppet:
    Nagesh:
    Kuba:
    empire:
    TRWTF is that no one looked at their SVN repo that was likely hundreds of GB and said, hmmm, why is this so big?
    Were it to be used properly, the size would have likely been exactly the same. In SVN, file copies/moves take just a metadata entry. The fact that "new" versions are saved under different names is immaterial. They still are saved in the repository, in one copy, no matter what the name is.

    Someone who knows how SVN works.

    Oh, are we using registered sock puppets now?

    That joke is going over my head.

    I think the correct term is "whoosh!".

  • Wolfraider (unregistered) in reply to Your Name
    Your Name:
    I swear, if they don't get concurrent editing in there soon, Google will eat their lunch. Google Docs is inferior to MSWord in every way except for concurrent editing of a document by multiple people on different computers, and that one feature makes me want to use it over Word if only my company gave the option to do so.

    Sharepoint 2010 and Office 2010 both work together to support versioning and concurrent editing. Sharepoint is really nice if you get it setup correctly but too many people just want to install it and walk away and lets users do what they want. They then blame the product when the real issue is you need to configure it correctly and maintain it.

  • (cs)
    <SARKASM>

    Looking like I have got big fan base, who all want to take my name. How thrilling!!!

    </SARKASM>
  • (cs) in reply to boog
    boog:
    Nagesh:
    booger, stop making useless arguments for sake of arguments.

    that is all!

    nagesh

    Why the indignant solicitation for silence, my noisy little nitwit?

    For sake of St Patrick's, speak in English!

  • (cs) in reply to Kuba
    Kuba:
    empire:
    TRWTF is that no one looked at their SVN repo that was likely hundreds of GB and said, hmmm, why is this so big?
    Were it to be used properly, the size would have likely been exactly the same. In SVN, file copies/moves take just a metadata entry. The fact that "new" versions are saved under different names is immaterial. They still are saved in the repository, in one copy, no matter what the name is.
    What reason do you have to believe HR was using SVN properly? I've worked with programmers who I couldn't convince to use the SVN copy/move/rename feature; every time they went to commit, they'd mindlessly add all "non-versioned" files (including build files and local "backup" copies, since they couldn't be convinced to use SVN revert either) and click "Commit" with no log message.
  • C-Octothorpe (unregistered) in reply to Nagesh
    Nagesh:
    boog:
    Nagesh:
    booger, stop making useless arguments for sake of arguments.

    that is all!

    nagesh

    Why the indignant solicitation for silence, my noisy little nitwit?

    For sake of St Patrick's, speak in English!

    For the sake of everybody elses sanity, understand English.

    EASY-READER: He's asking you why you're telling him to STFU, and called you a moron.

  • (cs) in reply to Nagesh
    Nagesh:
    boog:
    Nagesh:
    booger, stop making useless arguments for sake of arguments.

    that is all!

    nagesh

    Why the indignant solicitation for silence, my noisy little nitwit?

    For sake of St Patrick's, speak in English!

    Or if you prefer, I can speak in Troll: Thatis you're native langauge isnt it?

  • Latio (unregistered)

    I'm surprised nobody has mentioned yet that those are all wooden table files* pdfs instead of editable files, which will make any kind of merging a real pain (not that document diffing would be easy with word documents either, but there are some js scripts that manage to show them acceptable).

    *Alex, how's that isn't accepted?

  • (cs) in reply to Latio
    Latio:
    I'm surprised nobody has mentioned yet that those are all wooden table files* pdfs instead of editable files, which will make any kind of merging a real pain (not that document diffing would be easy with word documents either, but there are some js scripts that manage to show them acceptable).

    *Alex, how's that isn't accepted?

    Different way to do it.

  • (cs) in reply to C-Octothorpe
    C-Octothorpe:
    Nagesh:
    boog:
    Nagesh:
    booger, stop making useless arguments for sake of arguments.

    that is all!

    nagesh

    Why the indignant solicitation for silence, my noisy little nitwit?

    For sake of St Patrick's, speak in English!

    For the sake of everybody elses sanity, understand English.

    EASY-READER: He's asking you why you're telling him to STFU, and called you a moron.

    Now I get him clearly.

  • C-Octothorpe (unregistered) in reply to Nagesh
    Nagesh:
    C-Octothorpe:
    Nagesh:
    boog:
    Nagesh:
    booger, stop making useless arguments for sake of arguments.

    that is all!

    nagesh

    Why the indignant solicitation for silence, my noisy little nitwit?

    For sake of St Patrick's, speak in English!

    For the sake of everybody elses sanity, understand English.

    EASY-READER: He's asking you why you're telling him to STFU, and called you a moron.

    Now I get him clearly.

    You're welcome.

  • (cs)

    Wait ... what? Ok, which is "glitchy"? Office or the SVN? A lot of words are used in convincing us that Office is glitchy (999 times out of 1000 it's user error) but the story is titled "The Glitchy SVN". At no point in the story is it explained how SVN is glitchy, only that the users are clueless and in bad need of training.

    Once again, TRWTF is the story itself.

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