• katastrofa (unregistered) in reply to ping floyd
    ping floyd:
    Any place where you have to swipe your id card just to go to the bathroom is not worth working for. Been there, done that, left a long time ago!

    I have to :)

  • BooMonster (unregistered) in reply to jim steichen
    jim steichen:
    This story reminds of the time that a Vendor accidentally left his briefcase near some vending machines in out building. We were undergoing a Govt audit at the time so security that the briefcase might be some sort of test for them -- so they removed said briefcase to a safe area -- and BLEW IT UP! After that some wag came up with briefcase stickers that said: "Notice: This briefcase contains no bomb. Please do NOT destroy!", with a cute little skull and crossbones and everything.

    WANT.

  • Iago (cs)

    TRWTF is that so many people seem to think (a) that the security guard's behaviour was justifiable, or (b) that this kind of thing is natural and unavoidable at government facilities.

    I, too, work at a secure government facility. The security guards are universally friendly, professional, and efficient. One day I forgot my pass, and within ten minutes they'd verified my identity and handed me a temporary replacement. Perfectly routine task, carried out in accordance with a perfectly sensible process.

    Of course, this is not in the USA.

  • enim (unregistered) in reply to random person
    random person:
    Polar Bear:
    Peter: "Our schools are the safest around thanks to the hall monitor XLK."

    XLK: "Halt, present hall pass!"

    It's... right here...
    ED-209: You have 20 seconds to comply.

  • JJ (unregistered)

    Whoever dreamt up this security protocol should be fired, then rehired just so s/he can be fired again, and then shot. And I'm not even joking.

  • Paddles (cs) in reply to Anon
    Anon:
    I believe the same thing [lightbulb goes on] happens when marketing people meet their counterparts at another company. Nobody gets more excited about another companies marketing bullshit that our marketing people. You'd think they be immune.

    No... I suspect that as far as the marketing people are concerned, everything they've put into the marketing material is true (or can easily become true, with just a couple of hours of extra effort?). If that's the case, then there's no reason (for them) not to believe other peoples' marketing.

  • Paddles (cs) in reply to st0815
    st0815:
    Rule no. 1: Don't ever try to joke or be smart when talking to security officers. That will just make them less cooperative and even more grumpy.

    This is the reason why these people are able to continue to be assholes.

    Well, not just that. In Australia, it is now a criminal offence to make jokes about what's in your luggage to airport security. And yes, people have been convicted.

  • Sylver (unregistered) in reply to Wheaties
    Wheaties:
    Steve the Cynic:
    What we haven't been told here is whether Owein bothered to tell his management chain about the problems he was having. And if he didn't, then receiving a downsizee grenade is about what he should expect.

    After all, he had a problem that would jeopardize his assigned task's completion date, and instead of telling management about it, he sat on his arse for three days. Goodness only knows if telling them would have helped, but at least it is then their fault it did not get done.

    Oh he did. Not only did he tell his management but management called the security office AND was given the run around. It doesn't matter with government. Getting that security badge was not considered a valid reason for him to go into the secure area. We tried. This story is highly abreviated but he called everyone and everyone they suggested calling.

    Obviously you haven't worked on a government project.

    From the look of things, no one does. At least, that's not what I call working.

  • Sylver (unregistered) in reply to JJ
    JJ:
    Whoever dreamt up this security protocol should be fired, then rehired just so s/he can be fired again, and then shot. And I'm not even joking.

    You obviously haven't heard about severance pay. ;)

  • luis.espinal (cs)

    The moment the security lady told John that he couldn't get the security card because it wasn't for him, Owein should have escalated the issue to his tech lead, his manager and to the project manager and perhaps the main liaison with the users (if this was an in-house project meant for internal usage.)

    Better yet, he should have immediately escalated the crap out of it the moment the security lady told him she was free for an appo in two weeks (after omitting the fact he needed an appointment in the first instance AND after telling John she couldn't give the sec card to him despite John being sent by Owein following the stupid lady's instructions.)

    Those are the type of internal protocol WTFs that you need to report immediately, CC'ing every stake holder that might have some power on the project's timeline and final review. I've been in some really silly problems just like that, and sometimes a mass CC either helps clears up any obstacles or they can play in your favor when people ask why things are late. Yeah, some people ended up hating me in the process, but it's either dumb people or you ^_^

    He should have kept records of these and any other type of retarded incidents that affected his productivity. Now, if he truly was downsized for this and only this then chances are he's better off not working in such a destructive, unproductive environment.

    But if not, he sort of failed at escalating. But then again, working on that kind of environment can really numb your senses to the point of even forgetting that you need to escalate these things.

    I feel for him. Working in environments like that is not fun at all.

  • luis.espinal (cs) in reply to Wheaties
    Wheaties:
    Steve the Cynic:
    What we haven't been told here is whether Owein bothered to tell his management chain about the problems he was having. And if he didn't, then receiving a downsizee grenade is about what he should expect.

    After all, he had a problem that would jeopardize his assigned task's completion date, and instead of telling management about it, he sat on his arse for three days. Goodness only knows if telling them would have helped, but at least it is then their fault it did not get done.

    Oh he did. Not only did he tell his management but management called the security office AND was given the run around. It doesn't matter with government. Getting that security badge was not considered a valid reason for him to go into the secure area. We tried. This story is highly abreviated but he called everyone and everyone they suggested calling.

    Obviously you haven't worked on a government project.

    • raises hand *

    I have. Thus far I havent' seen that kind of problem. In fact, at least from my experience, the biggest offenders when it come to red tape have been large financial corps (or the DMV when you try to get a driver license or something ^_^).

    I think we can deduct from our combined anecdotes is that stupidity can and will occur with various degrees of frequency and gravity in both government, not-for-profit and for-profit private sectors.

  • Mailman (unregistered) in reply to Global Warmer
    Global Warmer:
    Rodnas:
    I love red tape. Especially when it doesn't concern me. When it does concern me, i feel the same frustration. Sounds much like the time i had to prove i didn't own a certain bankaccount. Which is of course impossible, because the bank doesn't give out information about an account that is not your own.

    I had a neighbor ripping off the Disney book club by having the books (and invoices) sent to my house. For several months I gave them their "mail". Then for several months I returned the packages to sender. Finally I called Disney and tried to explain what was going on... They wouldn't talk to me. First she needed an account number before she could talk to me and so I opened the invoice and gave her that number. She then asked me for my name... OOPS, that name is not on the account. She finally hung up on me. I wrote a letter and returned it with the most recent package telling them I would keep any further shipments as a gift from them to my kids. I got like 2 more shipments (which I kept) and then it stopped.

    In many countries, opening someone else's mail is a Federal offence (as is mail tampering). You have no right to open the invoice, let alone the packages...

  • Azarien (unregistered) in reply to katastrofa

    I used to work in government facility. To the bathroom you officially needed a key, but the lock was broken and it was always open. ;-)

  • Paul (unregistered)

    Was this a deleted scene from Brazil?

  • Mickey Blue Eyes (unregistered) in reply to amischiefr

    Probably downsized because he couldn't improvise, adapt, and overcome. Kind of like OCS. They set up barriers and expect you to overcome the barriers. Since he was not able to overcome the barriers, clearly he was not qualified to do the job. Serves him right!

    You go, government security drone! When the powers that be do something utterly illogical, just turn off your mind and play along.

  • iToad (unregistered) in reply to Ironic
    Ironic:
    It's curious that so much security, but you see a manteinance person, or a cleaning person enter all of the facilities without problems.

    There are two groups of people who can go anywhere, in any secure facility. The first group is security. The other group is the janitors.

  • Danny (unregistered) in reply to ping floyd
    ping floyd:
    Any place where you have to swipe your id card just to go to the bathroom is not worth working for. Been there, done that, left a long time ago!

    At this point, you start peeing in the wastebasket."

    "WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING!"

    "Would you rather I used the floor?"

  • jim steichen (unregistered) in reply to jim steichen
    Comment held for moderation.
  • LO (unregistered)

    I wonder what that lazy bi*** was so busy about so she couldn't walk and handle him the badge.

    I know that security offices most of the time do NOTHING except sitting on their as*.

    In that situation after one or two wasted hours I would call my manager and throw the whole problem to be solved by him - maybe our hero was downsized due to this lack of indirect approach :P

  • Fruney (unregistered) in reply to Mailman
    Mailman:
    Global Warmer:
    Rodnas:
    I love red tape. Especially when it doesn't concern me. When it does concern me, i feel the same frustration. Sounds much like the time i had to prove i didn't own a certain bankaccount. Which is of course impossible, because the bank doesn't give out information about an account that is not your own.

    I had a neighbor ripping off the Disney book club by having the books (and invoices) sent to my house. For several months I gave them their "mail". Then for several months I returned the packages to sender. Finally I called Disney and tried to explain what was going on... They wouldn't talk to me. First she needed an account number before she could talk to me and so I opened the invoice and gave her that number. She then asked me for my name... OOPS, that name is not on the account. She finally hung up on me. I wrote a letter and returned it with the most recent package telling them I would keep any further shipments as a gift from them to my kids. I got like 2 more shipments (which I kept) and then it stopped.

    In many countries, opening someone else's mail is a Federal offence (as is mail tampering). You have no right to open the invoice, let alone the packages...

    I'm surprised his neighbor's name wasn't on the package either. But, apparently it wasn't since he couldn't give the Disney people a name at all. So, if it's addressed to him and there's no other name documented on there... yeah, it's his mail.

  • Jadawin (cs) in reply to Sylver
    Sylver:
    JJ:
    Whoever dreamt up this security protocol should be fired, then rehired just so s/he can be fired again, and then shot. And I'm not even joking.

    You obviously haven't heard about severance pay. ;)

    And you obviously haven't heard about right-to-work states. :)

  • Vecchio Corvo Stanco (unregistered) in reply to morry
    morry:
    I've always wondered what happens when bureaucrats and security nuts encounter their counterparts in other organizations. Like the immigration officer who torments applicants getting the run around from a security officer. Or the HR benefits drone who tries to get a building permit from a city bureaucrat.

    Does the lightbulb ever go on?

    You seem to imagine that the red tape is only a barrier to external customers. In fact, in most organisations with these sorts of problems the internal problems with red tape are even worse than what is presented to the customers, and the bureaucrats don't realise how crazy it is because they are dealing with it all the time, and think that they are keeping things simple for you.

    So when they "encounter their counterparts in other organizations" they don't notice any problems at all.

  • Vecchio Corvo Stanco (unregistered)

    I've worked at security restricted places with very similar if not identical policies, and it really doesn't work like this. Quite simply the card should already have been waiting at the desk, and if for some reason it wasn't then what should have happened is that the security guard (NOT the visitor) should have simply phoned the expected host (in this case, the security officer) to come down to the front desk, and the card would have been handed over.

    The problems that Owein experienced had nothing to do with Kafkaesque policies, they consist of a lazy slacker blind-siding the newbie with gobbledygook to avoid doing her job. Since this is not only a violation of policy in itself, but also a misuse of government resources, it is perfectly appropriate to make an official complaint. We have since heard that Owein did make a complaint and received no response. In that case it is both reasonable and necessary to escalate the complaint.

    Exactly to whom he should escalate it depends on the organisation he was working for. Possibly the OIG, but it depends. The office of your Federal representative is probably the best resource to help guide you through the process and see that it is expedited.

    It is likely that the offender will be disciplined for this. It is even possible that Owein may be compensated for wrongful dismissal. DO NOT leth this languish; there are processes to enforce accountability in government but they have to be used.

    Captcha: was black on midnight blue. I had to save it to disk and tweak it with an image editor before I could read it!

  • meeee (unregistered)

    that protocol is a paradoxon

    ever considered how they could open a new facility? a) pass cards are only produced inside b) you need an appointment inside c) you need somebody escorting you if you have no pass card

    -> nobody ever can get a pass card

  • Kranglar Ironface (unregistered) in reply to tdittmar
    tdittmar:
    Daniel:
    I need to post a comment but got no clearence. Can anybody help me?

    There you go, but you have no regard for security and have wasted my time for the last 20 seconds!

    14 words in 20 seconds...you read 42 words per minute?

  • eric bloedow (unregistered)

    this reminds me of several stories by John Ringo, where an overzealous security guard blocked the protagonist. in one case he called the PRESIDENT OF THE USA on his cell phone, then passed it the the guard, who then said "yes sir" repeatedly while his face turned whiter and whiter...

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