The Daily WTF: Curious Perversions in Information Technology

2011-03-09 Reply Admin

I tried to Google "Bob Jones MCP" and the link I clicked on tried to give me a virus.

I value my computer more than getting a joke (slightly)

2011-03-09 Reply Admin

boog:
"Maybe we should-- diversify our hiring pool? Use a different agency?"
"I get a referral bonus from this one."
Glad to see you have your priorities in order.

Really, Jaimy should have taped the conversation and played it for management. They may not have appreciated her getting bonuses at the company's expense.

You're joking, right? The management that hired her to that position (presumably listening to how destructive Jaimy {what an odd spelling} was) could be shown that Alicia was incompetent? I soudt it....

You're not very smart, are you?

Yaos · 2011-03-09 Reply Admin

And the first enterprise application was born.

2011-03-09 Reply Admin

Jaimy:
Still, it's a poor workman who blames his tools

No offense Jaimy, but maybe it's better you're where you are instead of, say, construction--your boss might be pissed that you just spent all day smashing your lunch against the side of building because you couldn't find a hammer.

2011-03-09 Reply Admin

HellKarnassus:
It is always nice to help a coworker and feels good to be useful, but you cannot just go teaching them the basics they are supposed to already know unless they are your interns or apprentices. And much less if they are being an ass. Maybe she was very hot and Jaimy very urged?

EXACTLY! If they can't do the job they were hired to do, let them fail.
By all means give help for anything beyond the expected expertise, or offer advice (if asked) but don't make idiots look good - that's the real WTF with the IT industry, competent people are happy to make incompetent people look good, and then wonder why the incompetent idiots get the promotions....

2011-03-09 Reply Admin

I'm having a hard time parsing this sentence:

bogwre:
You're joking, right? The management that hired her to that position (presumably listening to how destructive Jaimy {what an odd spelling} was) could be shown that Alicia was incompetent? I soudt it....

But it made this sentence:

bogwre:
You're not very smart are you?

Absolutely hilarious

2011-03-09 Reply Admin

We have someone like this in my workplace as a Microsoft .NET dev. Well over 10 years of experience with profound analytical skills. Can't programme in VB.NET or C#. Neither WinForms nor WebForms, nor SQL Reports for that matter.

Just a while ago, this person did not know the difference between a literal zero and zero as an integer.

I say, more power to them, if only to provide us with entertainment =)

2011-03-09 Reply Admin

octocat empire:
If no one else is going to say it:
TRWTF is VB.

captcha: transverbero

True. Irrespective of the benefits or lack there of from using VB, it does (possibly as a direct result of MS Macros) seem to be the language that attracts the most incompetent programmer's (NOTE: I am not for a second claiming that all (or even most) VB programmer's are incompetent)

I'm guessing it's because some people (often who can barely navigate to the Excel Icon to open it) [s]write[/s] record a macro and suddenly think that they are the gun programmer

2011-03-09 Reply Admin

This is the kind of shit that makes me hesitant to be sympathetic to struggling small business owners. A lot of them are just this level of evil.

2011-03-09 Reply Admin

Simon:
I was hired for a job for which I feel vastly underqualified about 9 months ago. I think they were desperate. Having seen the calibre of the developers I've come to realise I could never be a real developer. I'm not that smart. I was shit-hot at all my previous jobs but now I feel like an idiot.
Luckily, I tell everybody that asks me to do something that I can't, I don't have a clue how to, I've no idea what my job is and I don't understand how I got through the interview. They laugh and go and ask someone else. I figure, when the shit eventually comes down and they rumble me, I can point to the fact that I've been completely honest all along.

Noice!

boog · 2011-03-09 Reply Admin

bogrwe:
boog:
They may not have appreciated her getting bonuses at the company's expense.

You're joking, right? The management that hired her to that position (presumably listening to how destructive Jaimy ... was) could be shown that Alicia was incompetent?

Who said anything about exposing incompetence? You think management would be fine with her profiting from fruitless hiring? And without them getting a cut?

bogrwe:
You're not very smart, are you?

Right back at ya, scooter.

2011-03-09 Reply Admin

C-Octothorpe:
Some Jerk:
Simon:
I was hired for a job for which I feel vastly underqualified about 9 months ago. I think they were desperate. Having seen the calibre of the developers I've come to realise I could never be a real developer. I'm not that smart. I was shit-hot at all my previous jobs but now I feel like an idiot.
Luckily, I tell everybody that asks me to do something that I can't, I don't have a clue how to, I've no idea what my job is and I don't understand how I got through the interview. They laugh and go and ask someone else. I figure, when the shit eventually comes down and they rumble me, I can point to the fact that I've been completely honest all along.

This might be the best post here so far. Too often I wish all ignorant fools could just be honest about it. I suspect that many of my previous work environments would have been more enjoyable that way.

I don't know "Simon", but AFAIK, inexperienced != ignorant. Ignorant is being inexperienced and thinking that you know everything.

Simon sounds like a nice guy, but he would have been canned pretty quickly in most places (unless it was government, in which case, everybody is Simon).

I'd like to move us right along to a [Simon]. Now we had a chance to meet this young man, and boy that's just a straight shooter with upper management written all over him.

2011-03-09 Reply Admin

Nagesh:
Quicksilver:
Ah and the TrueWTF is: Jaimy's social ineptness making it unable for him to stand up against some total looser and new coworker lead to the destruction of a whole IT company.

Jo dar gaya woh mar gaya!

Translated to

The one who scared a lot is first to die!

I think better keep the scared one alive, he undoubtedly keep the others trembling too with his feeble weeping - the brave one should die frist. They one who keep the others from being scared.

I have no doubts on this.

Nagesh · 2011-03-09 Reply Admin

visual basic is not for serious programmer. experience in visual basic is totally useless. in our company we don't hire any visual basic programmers. java and c are real languages, but any talk of it, then it become flaemwar in forums. so i try to stay away from such talk.

2011-03-09 Reply Admin

DocBrown:
There was a newly hired guy on my team who was painfully slow with understanding programming. He liked to talk how he'd rather be a manager instead. (NB: He'd freshly graduated with Economics and CS masters.) We helped him along the best we could... and rewrote (had to) almost all his code after he moved on to another project.
Last I heard of him, they promoted him to a team developing complex analytic reports. The first thing I thought at the moment was "Oh, gods, what were they thinking?" And the second: "Yay, not us!"

In my (perhaps limited) experience, Technical people love being Technical. If I ever met a programmer (other than one who might be nearing the latter parts of their career) who had aspirations of management, I would seriously worry whether they had any technical ability. Programmer's are (IMHO) more likely to want to be Architects {and maybe {maybe} analysts} than managers. Most (competent) programmers that I've met despise management, but realise that they'd not be much better in the same shoes.

But what would I know, I can't write Excel Macros for shit....

2011-03-09 Reply Admin

Ucoder:
I tried to Google "Bob Jones MCP" and the link I clicked on tried to give me a virus.
I value my computer more than getting a joke (slightly)

MCP is some MS certification ("I'm Word certified")

Maybe you'd find the name if you BINGED it! (That, or you'd get two viruses.)

Bob Jones MCP, MOUS 97

2011-03-09 Reply Admin

Once upon a time, building a Java application at a very large discount airline, we added a checkstyle rule to prohibit magic numbers in code. One developer diligently complied: private int ELEVEN = 11; private int FIFTY_FIVE = 55; ...

She's been promoted. Twice.

2011-03-09 Reply Admin

I hate to say it - but I strongly suspect Alicia would be big step up from the buffoons I work with.

2011-03-09 Reply Admin

boog:
bogrwe:
boog:
They may not have appreciated her getting bonuses at the company's expense.

You're joking, right? The management that hired her to that position (presumably listening to how destructive Jaimy ... was) could be shown that Alicia was incompetent?
Who said anything about exposing incompetence? You think management would be fine with her profiting from fruitless hiring? And without them getting a cut?

bogrwe:
You're not very smart, are you?
Right back at ya, scooter.

So, what you're saying, is the same management who couldn't recognise the fruitless hire they made with Alicia, might be able to see the fruitless hiring she was creating? Especially given that she would probably have destroyed Jaimy's credibility to the point she would never have an opportunity to present any recordings to any management?

Of course, to record such things in the first place would require him to anticipate the fact that it was going to be said.

2011-03-09 Reply Admin

You are doomed as soon as people like Alicia start making it past your interviews, let alone get promoted above you.

If you find that someone with NO SKILLS gets past your interview process, you really need to speak up and do something, unless you would rather see your team wither away, quality go down the drain, and to see yourself eventually back out on the job market.

(Unless you work in a place where management doesn't really care about what the programmers do. But really, why work in an environment where the software you make isn't the product you sell?)

Tim G · 2011-03-09 Reply Admin

Jaimy:
Still, it's a poor workman who blames his tools.

Exactly -- Alicia certainly was a tool.

Johnny come lately:
So, what you're saying, is the same management who couldn't recognise the fruitless hire they made with Alicia, might be able to see the fruitless hiring she was creating?

You're thinking too much. Management would be able to see "hey, we're not getting a kickback on her kickbacks." Management can definitely understand those kinds of terms.

Nagesh · 2011-03-09 Reply Admin

often we find person with less knowledge of project is made project leader. this downs team moral and we feel sad and waste time gossiping near coffee machine.

time to take another coffee break.

2011-03-09 Reply Admin

I take that back - things are doomed as soon as your manager starts creating "productivity reports" that use lines of code as a metric.

2011-03-09 Reply Admin

Matt B:
If you find that someone with NO SKILLS gets past your interview process, you really need to speak up and do something, unless you would rather see your team wither away, quality go down the drain, and to see yourself eventually back out on the job market.

I tried that once. My warnings went unheeded. I got a better job.

2011-03-09 Reply Admin

Lastchance:
This sort of thing only happens when people like Alicia are carried by misguided, but well-meaning coworkers.
Law of the Jungle, I say. Law of the Jungle.

Bingo, this is what happens when you help junior developers that talk a mean game.

2011-03-09 Reply Admin

Matt B:
I take that back - things are doomed as soon as your manager starts creating "productivity reports" that use lines of code as a metric.

Measuring programming progress by lines of code is like measuring aircraft building progress by weight. - Bill Gates.

2011-03-09 Reply Admin

HellKarnassus:
It is always nice to help a coworker and feels good to be useful, but you cannot just go teaching them the basics they are supposed to already know unless they are your interns or apprentices. And much less if they are being an ass. Maybe she was very hot and Jaimy very urged?

Maybe he should have banged her quick, then set her up, to to go bye bye.

2011-03-09 Reply Admin

OH.MY.GOD. I would have raged through the whole office if someone as stupid as Alicia was made boss. I would have been straight to upper management, that really would have shit me.

Captain Oblivious · 2011-03-09 Reply Admin

Bollinger:
DocBrown:
There was a newly hired guy on my team who was painfully slow with understanding programming. He liked to talk how he'd rather be a manager instead. (NB: He'd freshly graduated with Economics and CS masters.) We helped him along the best we could... and rewrote (had to) almost all his code after he moved on to another project.
Last I heard of him, they promoted him to a team developing complex analytic reports. The first thing I thought at the moment was "Oh, gods, what were they thinking?" And the second: "Yay, not us!"

In my (perhaps limited) experience, Technical people love being Technical. If I ever met a programmer (other than one who might be nearing the latter parts of their career) who had aspirations of management, I would seriously worry whether they had any technical ability. Programmer's are (IMHO) more likely to want to be Architects {and maybe {maybe} analysts} than managers. Most (competent) programmers that I've met despise management, but realise that they'd not be much better in the same shoes.

But what would I know, I can't write Excel Macros for shit....

Indeed, what do you know? You are sorely mistaken if you think being a manager amounts to writing Excel macros. They work to optimize business efficiency, by optimally allocating resources. Knowing how to do that often involves performing complex probability and statistics calculations you couldn't understand with 2 years of training. That isn't even an insult -- there are just many prerequisites, including calculus, probability and statistics, combinatorics; economics on many domains; etc.

The humorous thing is that these techniques are supposed to be the techniques taught to computer scientists -- optimization of queues/wait times through probabilistic methods, managing concurrent processes with unknown waiting times, general maximization/minimization optimization (e.g., the economic optimizations). Technology isn't about electronics, or computers, or the web. It's about techniques (i.e., algorithms and more general notions of "methods" and "processes"). Of course, computer scientists involved in these fields read the managerial journals, and many managers read the relevant computer science journals.

So to say that "technical people" don't go into management is an egregious error. Competent managers are technical people, typically hired because of their technical training. Better to say that "code monkeys" don't want to go into management. Managers hire them to solve the easy, repetitive problems -- yet another web-based report, using the same techniques (maybe dressed up in a new API this week, but probably not -- that introduces unnecessary risk) as the last web-based report -- so that we can work on the hard problems.

All the managers I know use Python or Haskell. The financial industry is moving to Python, after a government mandate that the actuarial/business calculations the business uses must be released to the public/shareholders in a "runnable/verifiable" format.

boog · 2011-03-09 Reply Admin

Johnny come lately:
boog:
Who said anything about exposing incompetence? You think management would be fine with her profiting from fruitless hiring? And without them getting a cut?

So, what you're saying, is the same management who couldn't recognise the fruitless hire they made with Alicia, might be able to see the fruitless hiring she was creating?

I'm not saying that management is smart; I'm saying that management doesn't like to feel betrayed. How do you think they might respond if she's confessing to manipulating their hiring process purely for personal gain? Maybe you think they'd be okay with it. My experience tells me otherwise.

Johnny come lately:
Of course, to record such things in the first place would require him to anticipate the fact that it was going to be said.

That's true. Can't believe I didn't even think of that. I should really take my internet forum posts more seriously.

boog · 2011-03-09 Reply Admin

Nagesh:
often we find person with less knowledge of project is made project leader. this downs team moral and we feel sad and waste time gossiping near coffee machine.
time to take another coffee break.

Congrats on the promotion!

Coyne · 2011-03-09 Reply Admin

It's like an illness: Let one in and they replicate like mad!

2011-03-09 Reply Admin

Captain Oblivious:
Bollinger:
DocBrown:
There was a newly hired guy on my team who was painfully slow with understanding programming. He liked to talk how he'd rather be a manager instead. (NB: He'd freshly graduated with Economics and CS masters.) We helped him along the best we could... and rewrote (had to) almost all his code after he moved on to another project.
Last I heard of him, they promoted him to a team developing complex analytic reports. The first thing I thought at the moment was "Oh, gods, what were they thinking?" And the second: "Yay, not us!"

In my (perhaps limited) experience, Technical people love being Technical. If I ever met a programmer (other than one who might be nearing the latter parts of their career) who had aspirations of management, I would seriously worry whether they had any technical ability. Programmer's are (IMHO) more likely to want to be Architects {and maybe {maybe} analysts} than managers. Most (competent) programmers that I've met despise management, but realise that they'd not be much better in the same shoes.

But what would I know, I can't write Excel Macros for shit....

Indeed, what do you know? You are sorely mistaken if you think being a manager amounts to writing Excel macros. They work to optimize business efficiency, by optimally allocating resources. Knowing how to do that often involves performing complex probability and statistics calculations you couldn't understand with 2 years of training. That isn't even an insult -- there are just many prerequisites, including calculus, probability and statistics, combinatorics; economics on many domains; etc.

The humorous thing is that these techniques are supposed to be the techniques taught to computer scientists -- optimization of queues/wait times through probabilistic methods, managing concurrent processes with unknown waiting times, general maximization/minimization optimization (e.g., the economic optimizations). Technology isn't about electronics, or computers, or the web. It's about techniques (i.e., algorithms and more general notions of "methods" and "processes"). Of course, computer scientists involved in these fields read the managerial journals, and many managers read the relevant computer science journals.

So to say that "technical people" don't go into management is an egregious error. Competent managers are technical people, typically hired because of their technical training. Better to say that "code monkeys" don't want to go into management. Managers hire them to solve the easy, repetitive problems -- yet another web-based report, using the same techniques (maybe dressed up in a new API this week, but probably not -- that introduces unnecessary risk) as the last web-based report -- so that we can work on the hard problems.

All the managers I know use Python or Haskell. The financial industry is moving to Python, after a government mandate that the actuarial/business calculations the business uses must be released to the public/shareholders in a "runnable/verifiable" format.

Perhaps you missed my point. I was not saying that Technical people don't make Good Managers, but rather that (good) Technical People (in my experience) have no aspirations toward management.

Perhaps I've worked in Govt work too long, but I have never met a manager who used anything beyond MS Office - in fact, I've only met a handful of managers who were even vaguely technical. My experience of managers (and sadly, even Technical Leads) is that their role seems more about managing people, projects and meetings rather than anything even remotely technical (anything technical gets delegated to technical resources).

Even in non-government roles I've held, I've experienced managers who barely understood the technologies we were using (let alone staff capabilities in different technologies) well enough to optimise any resource allocation. They tend to recognise that some people get things done quicker (or slower) than others, but they appear not to be able to realise that that could be because some people are using technologies that they don't understand (or simply don't know).

I'll admit I've never worked in finance, so perhaps things are different in that area, but of all the work I have had (in Private enterprise, for outsourcers and for the government) I have only once had a manager who I would have considered remotely technical (and admittedly, he probably was the best manager I've had - although I put it down to him actually understanding what was happening below him, rather than him having some vague idea that Code Monkeys below him deal with 'the Technical Shit'.

But then, perhaps I'm overly cynical and don't appreciate the hard work that goes into bringing a project through to completion less than two years after it was due...

I must confess (and this may be related) that I am seriously disturbed by some fairly high-profile IT failures here (in Australia) in the last couple of years, and maybe this is because we don't (seem) to have the luxury of adequate management. People blame outsourcing to Nagesh and his crew as a large part of the reason (which ultimately comes down to some level of management - although I suspect more detached than what you allude to) but I think the problem is with the lower level managers. In an ideal world (in any industry) managers work their way up through that industry (not necessarily in one organisation) which gives them an understanding how the lowest layers work. Unfortunately, we seem keen to higher 'Graduate Managers' who have some piece of paper that apparently qualifies them to manage anything from a corner store to an IT project/team to an entire IT division to an entire organisation. On second thoughts, perhaps my cynicism is justified.

2011-03-09 Reply Admin

It's OK to make paragraphs longer than two sentences, Lome Kates...

2011-03-09 Reply Admin

boog:
Johnny come lately:
So, what you're saying, is the same management who couldn't recognise the fruitless hire they made with Alicia, might be able to see the fruitless hiring she was creating?
I'm not saying that management is smart; I'm saying that management doesn't like to feel betrayed. How do you think they might respond if she's confessing to manipulating their hiring process purely for personal gain? Maybe you think they'd be okay with it. My experience tells me otherwise.

I think you missed the 'especially' bit. Sure, they'd fell manipulated, if Jaimy was ever allowed to prove it - you don't think he would be discredited long before he even approached a manager?

boog:
That's true. Can't believe I didn't even think of that. I should really take my internet forum posts more seriously.

Wow. that sounds like back-pedalling. I'll argue to the death (ok, I exaggerate, respond to any criticism about) over a post I made that I wasn't really serious about.

Askimet is good on this spam caper.....

Nagesh · 2011-03-09 Reply Admin

boog:
Nagesh:
often we find person with less knowledge of project is made project leader. this downs team moral and we feel sad and waste time gossiping near coffee machine.
time to take another coffee break.
Congrats on the promotion!

Promotion likely in June. Wait for it.

boog · 2011-03-09 Reply Admin

Johnny come lately:
I think you missed the 'especially' bit. Sure, they'd fell manipulated, if Jaimy was ever allowed to prove it - you don't think he would be discredited long before he even approached a manager?

Didn't miss it, just didn't think it important enough to waste time discussing. But if you insist, I'm not sure whether Jaimy's credibility would even matter. Assuming he did have it on tape, it wouldn't be his word against hers. Management would be hearing it right from the big dumb horse's mouth. And through a tape recorder.

Either way, you seem to want to argue whether or not Jaimy could show that the hirings were fruitless, and that wasn't even my point. At least one commentator managed to figure it out. Maybe you should read his post.

Johnny come lately:
boog:
That's true. Can't believe I didn't even think of that. I should really take my internet forum posts more seriously.
Wow. that sounds like back-pedalling. I'll argue to the death (ok, I exaggerate, respond to any criticism about) over a post I made that I wasn't really serious about.

My apologies if it sounded like backpedaling; I meant for it to sound like sarcasm, with a touch of spite. Perhaps that is my response to your criticism?

2011-03-09 Reply Admin

Simon:
What the bleeding fuck?

hmmm... not one to mince words.

Nagesh · 2011-03-09 Reply Admin

anon:
Simon:
What the bleeding fuck?

hmmm... not one to mince words.

How could Akismet let him enter fuck?

2011-03-09 Reply Admin

TRWTF is that he gives up the free fucks he has been getting from her by resigning.

2011-03-09 Reply Admin

Nagesh:
anon:
Simon:
What the bleeding fuck?

hmmm... not one to mince words.

How could Akismet let him enter fuck?

Akismet must have a rule where it's ok if you preface the fword with "bleeding" or "enter".

2011-03-09 Reply Admin

anon:
Akismet must have a rule where it's ok if you preface the fword with "bleeding" or "enter".

Or "free". Or, more likely, given that it being prefixed by "free" would be a really frelling obvious additional clue towards the post being spam, it just doesn't frelling give a fuck.

2011-03-09 Reply Admin

Don't misunderappreciate this comment.

2011-03-09 Reply Admin

C-Octothorpe:
Some Jerk:
Simon:
I was hired for a job for which I feel vastly underqualified about 9 months ago. I think they were desperate. Having seen the calibre of the developers I've come to realise I could never be a real developer. I'm not that smart. I was shit-hot at all my previous jobs but now I feel like an idiot.
Luckily, I tell everybody that asks me to do something that I can't, I don't have a clue how to, I've no idea what my job is and I don't understand how I got through the interview. They laugh and go and ask someone else. I figure, when the shit eventually comes down and they rumble me, I can point to the fact that I've been completely honest all along.

This might be the best post here so far. Too often I wish all ignorant fools could just be honest about it. I suspect that many of my previous work environments would have been more enjoyable that way.

I don't know "Simon", but AFAIK, inexperienced != ignorant. Ignorant is being inexperienced and thinking that you know everything.

Simon sounds like a nice guy, but he would have been canned pretty quickly in most places (unless it was government, in which case, everybody is Simon).

Or, the other option is that they know your limitations, hired you anyways and are keeping you around because your skillset is expanding at a pace that they find acceptable. Being a programmer is no more or less difficult than other knowledge based fields. Often, it's just a matter of becoming aware of the tools you have available to you, how to use them and when best to do so.

2011-03-09 Reply Admin

Damn, I'm in love... She's the closest thing to Haruhi I will ever see in my life.

2011-03-09 Reply Admin

Observing:
TRWTF is that he gives up the free fucks he has been getting from her by resigning.

Because everyone knows that women love to sleep with men they clearly hate.

TRWTF is the fact that anyone thinks there was any sexual tension in this story. I guess some kids just see a story with a man and a woman in it, and assume it's sexual in some way... after all, most of what they view through their browser window is...

2011-03-09 Reply Admin

Jaimy sounds like a complete doormat.

Nagesh · 2011-03-09 Reply Admin

Captcha:
Jaimy sounds like a complete doormat.

Yes, he's is number one chutya person in my opinion.

2011-03-09 Reply Admin

Sudo:
Observing:
TRWTF is that he gives up the free fucks he has been getting from her by resigning.
Because everyone knows that women love to sleep with men they clearly hate.
TRWTF is the fact that anyone thinks there was any sexual tension in this story. I guess some kids just see a story with a man and a woman in it, and assume it's sexual in some way... after all, most of what they view through their browser window is...

I'm pretty sure I would strangle the penguin on such a situation

Nagesh · 2011-03-09 Reply Admin

boog (fake):
Sudo:
Observing:
TRWTF is that he gives up the free fucks he has been getting from her by resigning.
Because everyone knows that women love to sleep with men they clearly hate.
TRWTF is the fact that anyone thinks there was any sexual tension in this story. I guess some kids just see a story with a man and a woman in it, and assume it's sexual in some way... after all, most of what they view through their browser window is...

I'm pretty sure I would strangle the penguin on such a situation

Hey fake booger! All this talk of strangling make you look like serial killer.

The Speed of Code

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