The Daily WTF: Curious Perversions in Information Technology

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

This bothered me:

“Veeeeeeerrrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyyy,” the client said in slow, bassly tone. Christophe blinked his eyes and everything returned to normal speed. “Very impressed! Injectors firing, spark plugs firing. Rearry good job, virtuar car is now running!”

Why is the word "very" pronounced with a "v" in the first two instances, and an "r" in the third? If anything, a Japanese person is likely to substitute "b" for "v". *

The sloppiness of transcription is TRWTF.

I assume a mapping of letters to English phonemes as "b" -> /b/, "v" -> /v/, and "r" -> /r/ for the words above.

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

No, he's not an idiot, but there may be an idiot involved in this discussion.

While it's literally true that the car's sound output is the sum of its individual parts' contribution, what he undoubtedly meant was that some of those parts exist only to change the sound output, and many of the others are configured in ways which are either "could be done either way, let's do it this way so it sounds better" or are actively sub-optimal in other contexts (lowers efficiency, reduces power, etc) so as to modify the sound output. And depending on the car, "changing the sound output" may not have as its ultimate goal achieving the absolute minimum sound output. Quiet Mustangs do not sell well.

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

DeaDPooL:
So when they got this multi-million dollar test machine and half japanese instruction manual... they never thought to request that the client provide one of their engineer's phone #s for any questions that may come up?
TRWTF is letting these clowns touch your stuff considering they don't know how it works, can't read the instructions, and don't bother to ask when they have questions.

Perhaps they did, but it didn't help as much as they might have hoped:

To make matters worse, the client’s engineers spoke half-Japanese and half-automobile-engineer.

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

frits:
Eaten by a Grue:
frits:
The lesson here is pulling all nighters clouds judgement. When electronic circuits fail, they usually release a puff of smoke (and maybe sparks and flames) and then stop working. The fact that the test machine continued doing stuff should have been a clue that things were working. Did he even check if dummy lights had turned off? Because that should have been his primary test criteria.

You should of course always wait until equipment catches fire or sparks dangerously before attempting to correct a hardware problem. After all, Finagle's Law of Testing states quite clearly that the value of testing equals the value of equipment ruined in the process.

Electronic equipment usually fails almost instaneously when you apply power to a bad configuration (usually from miswring). So waiting isn't really an option. The thing is toast before you can reach for the power switch. Additonally, there is usually very little mechanical action associated with elecronic component failure. I've fixed (and broken) enough electronic devices to vouche for my statements. I was an electonics tech for several years before entering the programming field.

The one thing I didn't mention previuosly but is worth mentioning is that Christophe shouldn't have applied power without knowing what the signal did. So that is an additional lapse of judgement.

In case you haven't noticed, that's the whole point of the story, dummy.

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

phleabo:
Why is the word "very" pronounced with a "v" in the first two instances, and an "r" in the third? If anything, a Japanese person is likely to substitute "b" for "v". *

Sigh. In the third instance he's saying "really". What's up with you guys today? It's like special school in here.

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

I think part of the problem with the discussion is that people are confusing "engine noise" with "exhaust note".

Most (all?) automobile manufacturers care greatly about the exhaust note and overall exterior sound of the car, and do indeed employ people to tune it. They also care about the sound inside the cabin, and employ people to deal with that, too.

"engine noise", OTOH, is the noise created by fans, alternators, pistons, etc. and is pretty much the sum of the noises of the individual parts. Manufacturers care much less about this noise, though the more exclusive the car the more they care about it.

I'm sure Ferrari cares a great deal what the engine sounds like, separate from the sound of the exhaust. As does Jaguar, Harley Davidson, and a handful of others. I doubt Kia cares that much, except that it shouldn't sound like a bunch of pots and pans clanging together.

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

Steve:
JamesQMurphy:
This was a fun story to read. I didn't get that VK was "Virtual Key." But the 0V-12V spec gave a clue that it had something to do with the battery, and probably the ignition.
Wait, what? All the electronics in a car are 0-12V, not just the ignition/starter. This is probably related to the fact that they all have a 12V battery...

Signals coming from the computer are very often 5W.

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

phleabo:
This bothered me:
“Veeeeeeerrrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyyy,” the client said in slow, bassly tone. Christophe blinked his eyes and everything returned to normal speed. “Very impressed! Injectors firing, spark plugs firing. Rearry good job, virtuar car is now running!”

Why is the word "very" pronounced with a "v" in the first two instances, and an "r" in the third? If anything, a Japanese person is likely to substitute "b" for "v". *

The sloppiness of transcription is TRWTF.

I assume a mapping of letters to English phonemes as "b" -> /b/, "v" -> /v/, and "r" -> /r/ for the words above.

"Rearry" <- "Really", and it's as good a transcription as any of the accent. The Japanese r/l is actually somewhere in between, and sounds more like a flapped d in isolation, but English speakers tend to hear it as "wrong" and so transcribe it as a transposition of r to l and l to r, rather than r and l to d.

Zylon · 2010-09-14 Reply Admin

English Man:
I for one congratulate Alex for the excellent job of proof-reading this article! Best I've seen so far!

Well, there is this gem:

Alex:
Nervously, they relocated the room with the Test Machine...

Now that's an impressive engineering feat!

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

H.P. Lovecraft:
Hell, I've seen large caps spontaneously combust and start fires all on their own.

I CAN'T REALLY BELIEVE THA.... BANG!

Hey you were right after all...

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

frits:
H.P. Lovecraft:

Wow. Please don't spread that type of misinformation. Electronics fires are common and easily started. Many components heat up sufficiently to carbonize the plastic coating on PCBs and components. This creates surface conductivity, and in turn heat, which eventually cycles into a real fire.

What misinformation am I spreading? I have seen this general symptom that you're describing many times. Usually, at some point, the localized fire stops. I have replaced many a circuit board in equipment that look like someone shot a hole though it. Guess what, that equipment was sitting powered up on not on fire before the failure was noted.

H.P. Lovecraft:
The only time you DONT get a fire with failed electronics is when you A) dont have enough current to cause large arcs
Arcs require voltage not current. However, most electrical fires are caused by excessive heat from excessive current.
H.P. Lovecraft:
B) are lucky enough to blow a component and break the circuit instead of it blowing in the open position.

This is the rule and not the exception. Most electronic devices are designed with multiple failsafes such as internal fuses. Additionally, don't forget that once a component has "let the smoke out" it usually becomes an open circuit.

H.P. Lovecraft:
Hell, I've seen large caps spontaneously combust and start fires all on their own.

I've seen electrolytic caps do this because the dialectric broke down. Again, it did not cause an emergency.

BTW- I am not advocating that anyone leave smoking electronics powered up.

The misinformation was that it's seemingly not dangerous to leave smoking electronics plugged in. My whole point was 'don't leave it plugged in'. When it starts smoking, unplug it.. then you don't run the risk of starting a fire.

Fail safes are all well and good, but on any large electronic device that fails there is a danger of fire, and it is not trivial if left unattended. Fuses can melt open too.

Cbuttius · 2010-09-14 Reply Admin

ときは、12Vのスイッチを入れる、車が起動するが表示されます

frits · 2010-09-14 Reply Admin

H.P. Lovecraft:
frits:
H.P. Lovecraft:

Wow. Please don't spread that type of misinformation. Electronics fires are common and easily started. Many components heat up sufficiently to carbonize the plastic coating on PCBs and components. This creates surface conductivity, and in turn heat, which eventually cycles into a real fire.

What misinformation am I spreading? I have seen this general symptom that you're describing many times. Usually, at some point, the localized fire stops. I have replaced many a circuit board in equipment that look like someone shot a hole though it. Guess what, that equipment was sitting powered up on not on fire before the failure was noted.

H.P. Lovecraft:
The only time you DONT get a fire with failed electronics is when you A) dont have enough current to cause large arcs
Arcs require voltage not current. However, most electrical fires are caused by excessive heat from excessive current.
H.P. Lovecraft:
B) are lucky enough to blow a component and break the circuit instead of it blowing in the open position.

This is the rule and not the exception. Most electronic devices are designed with multiple failsafes such as internal fuses. Additionally, don't forget that once a component has "let the smoke out" it usually becomes an open circuit.

H.P. Lovecraft:
Hell, I've seen large caps spontaneously combust and start fires all on their own.

I've seen electrolytic caps do this because the dialectric broke down. Again, it did not cause an emergency.

BTW- I am not advocating that anyone leave smoking electronics powered up.

The misinformation was that it's seemingly not dangerous to leave smoking electronics plugged in. My whole point was 'don't leave it plugged in'. When it starts smoking, unplug it.. then you don't run the risk of starting a fire.

I never said to leave smoking electronics powered up (see bold). I wouldn't expect anyone would do that. Leave your strawmen at home please.

Fail safes are all well and good, but on any large electronic device that fails there is a danger of fire, and it is not trivial if left unattended. Fuses can melt open too.

That's how fuses work. By opening.

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

I guess Murphy's Law was on vacation that day.

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

RE: drinking nearly an almost entire bottle of milk of magnesia

TRWTF is the choice of beverage. Instead of milk of magnesia before coming back into the office, perhaps some "other" type of beverage immediately upon arriving home would be the more natural choice. :)

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

Steve The Cynic:
Bob:
brazzy:
schmitter:
I can see this. Most car parts make some sort of noise that seems out of place when you eliminate the actual engine running noise.

Don't believe for a second that the sound of a running car is simply whatever happens to be the sum of all the noises the individual parts make.

Car makers have "sound engineers" whose job it is to use all allavailable tricks (adding parts, modifying shapes, changing materials, etc.) to ensure that the end result sound smooth, reassuring and/or macho.
You sir, are an idiot.

Well, that or someone who has no experience at all with engineering. To a person like you, the world is a magical place that operates according to changing principles that a select few magicians understand. Yes, engine noise is the sum of the noises of the individual parts. Engineers care very little about the sound of the car: that is caused by explosions. If they could completely eliminate engine noise, they would. They can't, but they suppress it as much as possible.
Sadly (for you), you are wrong. The sound of the engine is the sum of all the individual sounds, plus a bit for constructive interference, minus a bit for destructive interference, and then modified by the shape and materials of things like the engine compartment, the exhaust system, the intake ducts, etc. Car manufacturers do employ people to shape these components so as to modify this noise. I used to have a car with a 3-cylinder 4-stroke engine, and when idling, it made a barely audible whispery noise. Accelerating hard (well, as hard as it could, poor thing), at around 3,000 - 3,500 rpm, the resonant air intake made the weirdest noise.

And don't forget the box at the end of the exhaust, which in your world clearly makes a very loud anti-noise, since without that box, the overall engine noise is very loud indeed.

Also bear in mind that these new electric cars that are just coming onto the market are deemed to be too quiet, and therefore too dangerous, for the inattentive ipodded-up generation (oh yes, and blind people). So they are deliberately designing noise makers in them to go "brrm, brrm" like real cars.

frits · 2010-09-14 Reply Admin

Bob:
frits:
Eaten by a Grue:
frits:
The lesson here is pulling all nighters clouds judgement. When electronic circuits fail, they usually release a puff of smoke (and maybe sparks and flames) and then stop working. The fact that the test machine continued doing stuff should have been a clue that things were working. Did he even check if dummy lights had turned off? Because that should have been his primary test criteria.

You should of course always wait until equipment catches fire or sparks dangerously before attempting to correct a hardware problem. After all, Finagle's Law of Testing states quite clearly that the value of testing equals the value of equipment ruined in the process.

Electronic equipment usually fails almost instaneously when you apply power to a bad configuration (usually from miswring). So waiting isn't really an option. The thing is toast before you can reach for the power switch. Additonally, there is usually very little mechanical action associated with elecronic component failure. I've fixed (and broken) enough electronic devices to vouche for my statements. I was an electonics tech for several years before entering the programming field.

The one thing I didn't mention previuosly but is worth mentioning is that Christophe shouldn't have applied power without knowing what the signal did. So that is an additional lapse of judgement.

In case you haven't noticed, that's the whole point of the story, dummy.

Hey Bob, why don't you go back to that other debate you were losing?

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

[quote user="frits"][quote user="H.P. Lovecraft"]

I've seen electrolytic caps do this because the dialectric broke down. Again, it did not cause an emergency.

BTW- I am not advocating that anyone leave smoking electronics powered up. [/quote]

Goodness, that brings back memories. I worked during my student apprenticeship some 30 years ago in a lab which tested power supplies for TV cameras. Twice in one week one of these machines malfunctioned so as to send the can from an exploding capacitor shooting past my temporarily-deafened ear.

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

Anyone have a link to what one of these behemoths look like? My Google-fu is weak today; most of the links I find come back to this article.

damnum - dense, crumbly mineral that curses out whoever mines it.

Maurits · 2010-09-14 Reply Admin

DeaDPooL:
TRWTF is letting these clowns touch your stuff considering they don't know how it works, can't read the instructions, and don't bother to ask when they have questions.

QFT.

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

Steve:
The "virtual car" fired up straight away, causing the test rig to spring into life. I think the point here is that you've never seen these test rigs running. It's a truly harrowing experience, I'm not surprised that Christophe though the thing was about to go thermo-nuclear. They all sound like they're about to violently explode, all the damn time.

I guess what's confusing me was the description in the story about "angry lights" flashing at Chris, but when the Japanese guy did it and the car was running smoothly, all the "angry lights" were dark and the engine was running smoothly. That suggested that the lights and the noise were part of some ignition sequence, and I would have thought that Chris might have run over to the machine in a panic, but by the time he got there, the lights were off, it was running smoothly, and he'd have realized that it was normal.

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

This reminds me of the time I worked for a school district and was an adviser for a High School Solar Car project. The day before we were supposed to have a press conference and demo the car, we were running WAY behind schedule so the whole team pulled an all-nighter to get the car driveable. Press conference time was nearing and the TV crew was already there, and we had just gotten to the "smoke test". We turned on all the switches, pressed the "Soft-Start" button that was supposed to pre-charge the capacitors in the motor controller, and the Main Fuse blew. We ran some diagnostics, and tried again. Main fuse blew. We tried just about everything we could think of, and every time we hit the soft-start the main fuse blew. We had one Fuse left, and I was sooo blooming tired my eyes wouldn't focus. I decided to run one last test, so I got my voltmeter out, connected a battery directly to the SS controller, disconnected the main power contactors and hooked voltmeters to the signal lines. Turns out we had the control lines swapped. The SS line was connected to the RUN relay and the run line was connected to the SS relay.

I swapped the connections using a couple of wire nuts and hooked everything back up. The driver gets in, hits the SS button, relays click, lights blink and the car powers up. In place of the expected cheer there was a collective sigh from the whole team. We were all too tired to cheer. In the back of my head I could hear the minstrels from Monty Python's Holy Grail saying "And there was much rejoicing." At which point I started giggling like an idiot.

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

Ford and BMW have both added "sound tubes" to add more "engine roar" into the car. http://blog.cardomain.com/2009/03/02/fords-induction-sound-tube/

The engineers may not care about the sounds, but the marketers sure do. Can't have a Mustang sounding like a Camry, or a Camry sounding like a Harley.

Cbuttius · 2010-09-14 Reply Admin

If their act had destroyed the machine it would no doubt be covered by Professional Indemnity Insurance anyway, but in reality would such a test machine really be worth so much money and then blow up and get damaged so easily?

Plus if it's a test machine, it should obviously be able to cope with errors within reason without self-destructing. If it can't do that it is not fit for the purpose.

The whole point of having test machines is that developers do not always get it right first time and that you can detect the errors and fix them in a safe environment.

frits · 2010-09-14 Reply Admin

Volante:
Anyone have a link to what one of these behemoths look like? My Google-fu is weak today; most of the links I find come back to this article.
damnum - dense, crumbly mineral that curses out whoever mines it.

Here's one.

[image]

And another.

[image]

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

ha, this might be one of the best stories I have read on WTF in quite some time.

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

Hey, isn't this article somewhat related to embedded systems?

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

thats funny, I had to look at that sentence twice real quick to figure out what they meant, but your interpretation is far funnier

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

Steve:
Bob:
Engineers care very little about the sound of the car: that is caused by explosions. If they could completely eliminate engine noise, they would.
This is so far from the truth it hurts. Engine note is held in the highest regard for both auto makers and serious consumers. Have you EVER seen/heard a quiet Harley Davidson in your entire life? Have you EVER seen/heard a quiet Dodge Viper in your entire life?
Your argument may apply to silly little city cars and commuters but it absolutely does not apply anywhere from the entry-level performance categories upwards.

You appear to be one of those cases of arrested adolescence who believe that your masculinity is confirmed by announcing your arrival by having your vehicle make as loud a noise as possible. Excessive noise pollution is a crime in most civilised areas of the world.

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

Marvelous Toy:
It went "Zip" when it moved, and "Bop" when it stopped, and "Whirrr" when it stood still. I never knew just what it was, and I guess I never will.

+1

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

I worked in an Automotive company, and we had a similar situation once. We had one of these test benches chuck full of equipment and we were testing diagnostics for an Airbag controller. The test bench had the seat belts as part of the setup.

While the test was running and the bench was on(VK ON) the engineer from the ECU controller company tried to disconnect it, but forgot to turn of the bench...

Well, a very LOUD explosion was heard immediately and pieces of equipment flew everywhere.

When disconnecting the ECU, the engineer flipped it over, activating the accelerometer that detects when the vehicle flips.

Result: BOOM!!

It happens that the seat belts are pyrotechnic. They explode to ensure that the optimal tension is archived in the case of an accident.

Fortunately we didn't have the airbags in the set-up....

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

Matt Westwood:

You appear to be one of those cases of arrested adolescence who believe that your masculinity is confirmed by announcing your arrival by having your vehicle make as loud a noise as possible. Excessive noise pollution is a crime in most civilised areas of the world.

You seem overly defensive. Why do you need to attack him so? 2. He is not in any way talking about making a noise "as loud as possible". Hyperbole on your part I know, but I thought I would mention it so I could have three things in my list to complain about. 3. Noise pollution is generally a civil matter and not a crime. 4. There's nothing adolescent about enjoying some automotive/motorcycle sounds. Only inflicting discomfort or annoyance on others is immature, and Steve did not advocate that anywhere.

Oh look I found four things. :-)

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

Steve:
JamesQMurphy:
This was a fun story to read. I didn't get that VK was "Virtual Key." But the 0V-12V spec gave a clue that it had something to do with the battery, and probably the ignition.
Wait, what? All the electronics in a car are 0-12V, not just the ignition/starter. This is probably related to the fact that they all have a 12V battery...

You know not how computers work? 12V through a chip make it die.

Seriously, though, most signal wires are as low as three, even less than one volt. Just enough to tell the component it's talking to: "1". The ignition, on the other hand, actually completes a circuit directly from the battery to the engine.

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

Zapp Brannigan:
Hey, isn't this article somewhat related to embedded systems?

With no file system?

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

Matt Westwood:
Steve:
Bob:
Engineers care very little about the sound of the car: that is caused by explosions. If they could completely eliminate engine noise, they would.
This is so far from the truth it hurts. Engine note is held in the highest regard for both auto makers and serious consumers. Have you EVER seen/heard a quiet Harley Davidson in your entire life? Have you EVER seen/heard a quiet Dodge Viper in your entire life?
Your argument may apply to silly little city cars and commuters but it absolutely does not apply anywhere from the entry-level performance categories upwards.

You appear to be one of those cases of arrested adolescence who believe that your masculinity is confirmed by announcing your arrival by having your vehicle make as loud a noise as possible. Excessive noise pollution is a crime in most civilised areas of the world.

Are you for real? I'm a professional automative engineer and I'm stating a plain fact about my trade. At no time did I express my own opinion on the subject, I simply repeated a demonstrable fact. I'm sorry if your granny was killed by noise pollution or your neighbour owns a Harley but please don't take out your frustrations on me; you know nothing of my work and are in no position to make sweeping judgements based on your own obvious prejudice.

alegr · 2010-09-14 Reply Admin

For what it's worth:
Signals coming from the computer are very often 5W.

WWhatt's thatt? 5 Watt?

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

Steve:
... I'm a professional automative engineer ...

I seriously doubt it. In fact, I would bet you are none of the three.

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

Zylon:
English Man:
I for one congratulate Alex for the excellent job of proof-reading this article! Best I've seen so far!
Well, there is this gem:
Alex:
Nervously, they relocated the room with the Test Machine...
Now that's an impressive engineering feat!

There's also this:

Not being able to trick the ECU into thinking that the car started wasn’t a deal-breaker, but it sure would have been nice.

What?

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

For what it's worth:
Signals coming from the computer are very often 5W.

W=V*I, how does that confirm or deny the value of V being 12 when no I is provided?

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

Grammar Nazi:
There's also this:
(Not (being able to trick the ECU into thinking that the car started)) wasn’t a deal-breaker, but (it [being ... started]) sure would have been nice.

What?

HTH.

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

Awesome. I've never worked with automotive ECUs, but anytime you get to have real actual hardware (as opposed to some kind of emulator or boilerplate) to play with is cool. ;-) Of course, sometimes then that leads to the fun of discovering that your software doesn't work because up until now, you'd been testing it with an emulator, and the behavior was just a wee bit different.... So the car maker is certainly right to have a Test Machine like this. Emulators are great tools for development, but sooner or later you have to test in the real world, and the sooner in the development/integration cycle that you can introduce bits of reality, the better.

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

Steve:
Matt Westwood:
Steve:
Your argument may apply to silly little city cars and commuters but it absolutely does not apply anywhere from the entry-level performance categories upwards.
...snip...
At no time did I express my own opinion on the subject, I simply repeated a demonstrable fact.

Referring to "silly little city cars" looks to me suspiciously like expressing an opinion. Or do you mean that you were expressing someone else's opinion there?

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

no one on the team was an automobile engineer

TRWTF. Even hiring a part-time consultant or something would be a good idea - or asking for a loaner from the customer or something.

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

probably ozone from the firing spark plugs....

PeriSoft · 2010-09-14 Reply Admin

Matt Westwood:
Steve:
Bob:
Engineers care very little about the sound of the car: that is caused by explosions. If they could completely eliminate engine noise, they would.
This is so far from the truth it hurts. Engine note is held in the highest regard for both auto makers and serious consumers. Have you EVER seen/heard a quiet Harley Davidson in your entire life? Have you EVER seen/heard a quiet Dodge Viper in your entire life?
Your argument may apply to silly little city cars and commuters but it absolutely does not apply anywhere from the entry-level performance categories upwards.

You appear to be one of those cases of arrested adolescence who believe that your masculinity is confirmed by announcing your arrival by having your vehicle make as loud a noise as possible. Excessive noise pollution is a crime in most civilised areas of the world.

Are you for real? Your argument is akin to saying that people who conduct orchestras are trying to 'make as much noise as possible'. Tuning exhaust systems isn't about volume, it's about quality.

Yeah, for certain kinds of cars, louder exhausts sound better. But that still doesn't mean noise-pollution levels, and wanting your car to sound nice doesn't imply you want it to be loud any more than buying a good stereo implies that you want to blow the windows out of your house. My Saab is pretty damn quiet, but the sound it does make is really, really nice - far different from the usual econobox grind, even though it's about the same volume.

You need to consider things for more than a few milliseconds before you saddle up your high horse.

In other news, this was a fantastic article.

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

Steve:
Wait, what? All the electronics in a car are 0-12V, not just the ignition/starter.

The embedded devices which are used in cars, typically are supplied by 5V or 3.3V - the core logic often runs at lower voltages (1.2V is common). Interface signals may have higher voltages

I design MCUs for automotive applications (airbags, dashboard, powertrain etc).

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

Matt Westwood:
Steve:
... I'm a professional automative engineer ...
I seriously doubt it. In fact, I would bet you are none of the three.

I tried to be cordial, even in the face of your completely unfounded attacks, but I see now that no amount of pleasantries will elicit an intelligent or reasoned response from you. All I can do is yield to your unwavering belligerance which means this conversation is over.

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

Bob:
brazzy:
schmitter:
I can see this. Most car parts make some sort of noise that seems out of place when you eliminate the actual engine running noise.

Don't believe for a second that the sound of a running car is simply whatever happens to be the sum of all the noises the individual parts make.

Car makers have "sound engineers" whose job it is to use all allavailable tricks (adding parts, modifying shapes, changing materials, etc.) to ensure that the end result sound smooth, reassuring and/or macho.
You sir, are an idiot.

Well, that or someone who has no experience at all with engineering. To a person like you, the world is a magical place that operates according to changing principles that a select few magicians understand. Yes, engine noise is the sum of the noises of the individual parts. Engineers care very little about the sound of the car: that is caused by explosions. If they could completely eliminate engine noise, they would. They can't, but they suppress it as much as possible.

No I think you are quite wrong there, ducati for instance open the exhaust valves a little soon to get a good sound out of the engine. It costs a little power but thats marketing

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

Matt Westwood:
You appear to be one of those cases of arrested adolescence who believe that your masculinity is confirmed by announcing your arrival by having your vehicle make as loud a noise as possible. Excessive noise pollution is a crime in most civilised areas of the world.

Steve:
Are you for real?

PeriSoft:
Are you for real?

Beautiful! Well it's been said before but - are you for real Matt Westwood? Because if that wasn't a troll it was a fucking retarded thing to say. I'm currently taking bets, odds are 4:1 that he's a troll and 2:1 he's a retard.

2010-09-14 Reply Admin

abitslow:
No I think you are quite wrong there, ducati for instance open the exhaust valves a little soon to get a good sound out of the engine. It costs a little power but thats marketing

You're talking about desmodromic valves but you have completely misunderstand the purpose of them. It has nothing to do with engine noise - in fact, most bikers agree that desmo values sound horrible compared to traditional spring-driven ones. Desmodromic valves were designed specifically to solve the problem of valve-bounce at high revs. It was not an effort to make the bike sound better and indeed most desmo engines sound awful if you get your ear up to them (good exhaust note though).

The Test Machine

Leave a comment on “The Test Machine”