• Macgyver (unregistered)

    This is easy. Give them the results. I.E. A spreadsheet with no rows. None. Period. When they ask you for the results, you have the results.

    Now, instead of failing to provide the results, you are asked why there are none and you can say that no one took the survey. And then you can rightly say "I don't know, did anyone tell them about it?" when the boss asks why no one took the survey. And don't forget to prove that you had the site up in time, and a communication to the PM that the site was up. Then, the RIGHT person gets blamed for not notifying the users that the survey is up and running.

    Instead, this was handled in a way that makes Martin look like he's insubordinate to the PM(which he may have been). He didn't get written up for getting bad results for the survey, he got written up for not providing the results. There's a big difference.

  • justin (unregistered) in reply to Isaac

    I think the flow of the process should have been presented to the managers like this.

    • Requirements presented
    • Survey developed
    • Results processed
    • Results reviewed
    • Results presented to customer
    • Survey reviewed
    • Survey goes live
    • Survey closed to the public

    If the MENSA members approve this flow (get sign-off), there's nothing wrong with sending the results as they stand (no responses at all). Martin would have given them exactly what they asked for.

    After a while, you learn not to fight the stupidity (a fight you cannot win), but just to let them learn from their own mistakes and CYA in the meantime.

    If an error is caught and ignored, with no notification to the user or logging, did the error ever really occur?

    • C-Zen
  • P-bear (unregistered) in reply to Anonymous Mensa-Member
    Anonymous Mensa-Member:
    Beeing a membeer of Mensa myself i can say that highly intelligent persons do stupid things too. We just do them faster!

    I guess spelling is not required for qualification.

  • (cs)

    Well, the answer is simple...

    Build a time-machine. It doesn't matter how long it takes, because once it's done, you can go back to any previous point.

    I envision such a system using a thin suit with tubes running from various parts of your body to other parts, redistributing the "excess time" that is not needed. Really, how long DOES it take to digest a burrito?

    How MENSAlly retarded do you have to be not to think of that?

    P.S. Don't shoot your grandfather when you get there... he owes me money.

  • Steamer2k (unregistered)

    That's what you get when you hire one of those mortals.

    CAPTCHA: pirates -- Yarr!111

  • ChiefCrazyTalk (unregistered) in reply to Dax
    Dax:
    http://www.mensa.org/

    From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mensa_International

    Mensa International is the largest, oldest, and best-known high-IQ society in the world. The organization restricts its membership to people with high testable IQs. Specifically, potential members must score within the top 2% (98th percentile) of any approved standardized intelligence test.

    And I would like to add that most people in Mensa have high school diplomas (A-Levels) or less, and just feel that they have something to prove by being as smart as those with actual college degrees.

  • Not So Smart (unregistered) in reply to Anonymous Mensa-Member
    Anonymous Mensa-Member:
    Beeing a membeer of Mensa myself i can say that highly intelligent persons do stupid things too. We just do them faster!

    So Mensa is just full of stupid people that drink a lot of caffeinated beverages?

    CAPTCHA: insert moronic non-sequitur here

  • verisimilidude (unregistered) in reply to Not So Smart

    And was this company Sequoia Systems, Diebold or some other provider of electronic voting systems?

  • (cs)

    Obviously, you just make up the results, and make them up badly. Put yourself as the write-in new CEO on the survey. Of course, this is only after you've handed in your resignation.

  • Abscissa (unregistered) in reply to Mike
    Mike:
    Aside from resume padding, what good is MENSA, anyway? I never see them mentioned as a contributing force in any of the stuff I read about in Scientific American.

    That's because Mensa a a social club, not a research organization. I'll agree that it's not very useful though, I was in it for a couple or years until I finally decided that $50/year for a couple uninteresting (often flame-filled) newsletters and an occasional lunch gathering (with people I have nothing in common with besides a test score) just wasn't worth it.

  • rajbot (unregistered)

    MENSA measures your ability to get taken in by a scam. I'm sure once you're in the meeting is flooded with people pushing poetry competitions and the like.

    tell you what -- I'll tell you you're smart for only a $15 sign-up and a $25 annual fee. That's more than HALF OFF the MENSA rates! You'd have to be an IDIOT to not realize this is a better deal, and you sure aren't an IDIOT, are you?

  • Abscissa (unregistered) in reply to Unklegwar
    Unklegwar:
    Anonymous Mensa-Member:
    Beeing a membeer of Mensa myself i can say that highly intelligent persons do stupid things too. We just do them faster!

    Check your MENSA dictionary on how to spell BEING.

    MENSA has something to do with 'tards, right?

    P-bear:
    Anonymous Mensa-Member:
    Beeing a membeer of Mensa myself i can say that highly intelligent persons do stupid things too. We just do them faster!

    I guess spelling is not required for qualification.

    What is wrong with people? Did he not just say "We do stupid things too"? Or are people conveniently ignoring that just for the sake of throwing insults?

  • Lou Zerr (unregistered)

    I wanted to comment on this yesterday...

  • Code Slave (unregistered) in reply to not so sure

    [/quote] Granted, there's more to the story than what's in the post, but it seems that the guy DID try to explain the simple concept of can't-finish-before-starting. Some bosses just don't (can't?) listen[/quote]

    Anyone who's taken a Project management course should recognise their task relationship patterns: SS A Must Start for B to Start FF A Must Finish for B to Finish SF A Must Start for B to Finish FS A Must Finish for B to Start

    The PM just errantly did a B=A before building their schedule it a FS.

  • Jimmy Jones (unregistered) in reply to Lady Nocturne
    Lady Nocturne:
    In Spanish, "mensa" means stupid.

    FWIW.

    No it doesn't.

    The word "mensa" doesn't exist in Spanish. The closest word I can think of is "menta" (which means "mint").

  • (cs) in reply to dbs
    dbs:
    Sorry, this sounds like a basic miscommunication issue. I've worked with a lot of very intelligent folks, and a lot of not-so intelligent folks. When faced with an impossible situation, and management asserting it's your fault that the impossible conditions are not being met, then the problem is you're not making it clear to them why it it's impossible.

    There's limits to WTF'edness, and I'm sorry, but I have to blame Martin for not being able to communicate well. I've seen this sort of situation come time and time again where the tech goes on and on about "This is impossible!" and management going "Just do it!" - and the problem is that management is never told, in a way they understand, WHY it is is impossible.

    SO where's the fault? Management for asking for something they want and not getting it, or the employee for not doing something because he can't articulate why it's impossible in a way that management understands?

    I agree. He was told to get them the results. He should have gotten them the results, which at the time would have been none. Just create a report saying: "Here are the results: No on has taken the survey yet." At least then you could not be blamed for not getting them the results.

  • Steamer2k (unregistered) in reply to justin
    After a while, you learn not to fight the stupidity (a fight you cannot win), but just to let them learn from their own mistakes and CYA in the meantime.

    Do not answer a fool according to his folly, Or you will also be like him. --Proverbs 26:24

    Answer a fool as his folly deserves, That he not be wise in his own eyes. --Proverbs 26:25

  • Belcat (unregistered) in reply to dbs
    dbs:
    Sorry, this sounds like a basic miscommunication issue. I've worked with a lot of very intelligent folks, and a lot of not-so intelligent folks. When faced with an impossible situation, and management asserting it's your fault that the impossible conditions are not being met, then the problem is you're not making it clear to them why it it's impossible.

    There's limits to WTF'edness, and I'm sorry, but I have to blame Martin for not being able to communicate well. I've seen this sort of situation come time and time again where the tech goes on and on about "This is impossible!" and management going "Just do it!" - and the problem is that management is never told, in a way they understand, WHY it is is impossible.

    SO where's the fault? Management for asking for something they want and not getting it, or the employee for not doing something because he can't articulate why it's impossible in a way that management understands?

    Sorry, I don't agree. Communication is a two way thing, and often Management just doesn't want to hear what you're saying, no matter how you say it. Perhaps there was a way Martin could have communicated it, but perhaps they just weren't interested in hearing it.

    I have to admit though that it does sound like a communication issue - how could someone ask for results before they started the collection of them?

  • Its a Feature (unregistered) in reply to dbs
    dbs:
    Sorry, this sounds like a basic miscommunication issue. I've worked with a lot of very intelligent folks, and a lot of not-so intelligent folks. When faced with an impossible situation, and management asserting it's your fault that the impossible conditions are not being met, then the problem is you're not making it clear to them why it it's impossible.

    There's limits to WTF'edness, and I'm sorry, but I have to blame Martin for not being able to communicate well. I've seen this sort of situation come time and time again where the tech goes on and on about "This is impossible!" and management going "Just do it!" - and the problem is that management is never told, in a way they understand, WHY it is is impossible.

    SO where's the fault? Management for asking for something they want and not getting it, or the employee for not doing something because he can't articulate why it's impossible in a way that management understands?

    How dumb is your management that they wouldn't understand that it is a violation of the space-time continuum to get results of a survey before the survey is given?

    Unless--maybe they're related to Star Trek's "Q"?

  • nobody (unregistered)

    Maybe he should have said "I'll get you the results, but I need piece of special equipment" and then requisitioned a crystal ball.

  • sf (unregistered) in reply to Lady Nocturne
    Lady Nocturne:
    In Spanish, "mensa" means stupid.

    FWIW.

    In Elbonian it means "can't get laid."

  • rmg66 (unregistered) in reply to Jimmy Jones
    Jimmy Jones:
    Lady Nocturne:
    In Spanish, "mensa" means stupid.

    FWIW.

    No it doesn't.

    The word "mensa" doesn't exist in Spanish. The closest word I can think of is "menta" (which means "mint").

    Check again. Type "mensa" into a translator website! This one, for example... http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr

  • rmg66 (unregistered) in reply to Jimmy Jones
    Jimmy Jones:
    Lady Nocturne:
    In Spanish, "mensa" means stupid.

    FWIW.

    No it doesn't.

    The word "mensa" doesn't exist in Spanish. The closest word I can think of is "menta" (which means "mint").

    Check again. Type "mensa" into a translator website! This one, for example... http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr

  • not so sure (unregistered) in reply to Steamer2k
    Steamer2k:
    After a while, you learn not to fight the stupidity (a fight you cannot win), but just to let them learn from their own mistakes and CYA in the meantime.

    Do not answer a fool according to his folly, Or you will also be like him. --Proverbs 26:24

    Answer a fool as his folly deserves, That he not be wise in his own eyes. --Proverbs 26:25

    This statement is a lie!

  • (cs)

    I know a person exactly like the MENSA boss. Damn she's annoying ;E While I was still in school, she used to bring her annual MENSA journals and literally went saying "Hey, be quiet, I'm trying to read this MENSA journal and it's like a group of intelligent people and I'm in it and this like really requires consentration! No you can't have one if you're not intelligent enough like me to join MENSA!"

  • Gonzalo (unregistered)

    Mensa (or Menso, for a man) does mean stupid in Spanish. It's used at least in various countries of Central America.

  • Carsten Otto (unregistered)

    WTF. The calender shows that tomorrow is today! It's thursday, not wednesday! :)

  • Its a Feature (unregistered)

    I know--here's how the conversation could go:

    Programmer: "I'm sorry but due to religious reasons, I am forbidden from violating the Space-Time Continuum. I will be happy to pass all my work on to a citizen of the Q continuum so that they can alter time for you."

  • GrandmasterB (unregistered)

    This trivial space-time issue wouldnt have been a problem if Martin had just reversed the polarity of the flux capacitor.

    captcha: kungfu

  • Its a Feature (unregistered) in reply to Carsten Otto
    Carsten Otto:
    WTF. The calender shows that tomorrow is today! It's thursday, not wednesday! :)

    That all depends on what part of the globe you're from at the time of your posting. As of this posting, if you're somewhere in Asia--yes, it's tomorrow (Thursday). But for me and the rest of the world, we live in the present--so it's Wednesday.

    Thank you and have a nice day.

  • Me (unregistered) in reply to daRover
    daRover:
    Sorry. I just can't believe this one. Either we're not getting the whole story or this is complete fiction.

    I totally agree.

    No person capable asking for a survey, or any management is that stupid.

    If the story has its base in reality, it has been anonymized to something that just don't make sense.

  • (cs)

    Couldn't Martin just press the "Easy" button?

  • (cs) in reply to G Money
    G Money:
    Also, a group of people who regularly get their asses handed to them on Jeopardy!
    Knowledge != Intelligence
  • (cs) in reply to Me
    Me:
    daRover:
    Sorry. I just can't believe this one. Either we're not getting the whole story or this is complete fiction.

    I totally agree.

    No person capable asking for a survey, or any management is that stupid.

    If the story has its base in reality, it has been anonymized to something that just don't make sense.

    Wow. Must be nice to work at a place where all management decisions always make sense.

    #ifdef CLUE_CHALLENGED </sarcasm> #endif

  • King Erroneous (unregistered)

    Too bad a certain Mr. Nakamura is out doing more important things. Else he has a job waiting for him.

  • eth0 (unregistered)

    They definitely should hire Hiro Nakamura.

  • Abscissa (unregistered) in reply to Thuktun
    Thuktun:
    G Money:
    Also, a group of people who regularly get their asses handed to them on Jeopardy!
    Knowledge != Intelligence

    That's right:

    Knowledge = Knowing Facts Intelligence = Reasoning Ability

    Both are good to have, but they're not at all the same.

    It's a big pet peeve of mine that people keep getting those two confused.

  • Anonymous (unregistered)

    Why don't you go ahead and give me a paycheck for all the work I'm going to complete within the next decade. Then I'll e-mail you the results of that survey that will be taken next week. Thanks.

  • (cs) in reply to Gonzalo
    Gonzalo:
    Mensa (or Menso, for a man) does mean stupid in Spanish. It's used at least in various countries of Central America.
    Since a Google search of "mensa is Spanish for stupid" turns up a crapload of online comments asserting that without any citations, that smacked of an urban legend.

    WordReference's Spanish dictionary says it actually means "dummy" or "jerk". It sounds like a pejorative rather than a qualitative description.

    That's an interesting translation, since it nicely fits the few Mensa members I've knowingly met.

  • yahweh (unregistered) in reply to dbs
    dbs:
    Sorry, this sounds like a basic miscommunication issue. I've worked with a lot of very intelligent folks, and a lot of not-so intelligent folks. When faced with an impossible situation, and management asserting it's your fault that the impossible conditions are not being met, then the problem is you're not making it clear to them why it it's impossible.

    There's limits to WTF'edness, and I'm sorry, but I have to blame Martin for not being able to communicate well. I've seen this sort of situation come time and time again where the tech goes on and on about "This is impossible!" and management going "Just do it!" - and the problem is that management is never told, in a way they understand, WHY it is is impossible.

    SO where's the fault? Management for asking for something they want and not getting it, or the employee for not doing something because he can't articulate why it's impossible in a way that management understands?

    Martin's fault? Heh.

    ...and so another bespoken idiot, uhhh, speaks.

  • G Money (unregistered) in reply to Abscissa
    Abscissa:
    Thuktun:
    G Money:
    Also, a group of people who regularly get their asses handed to them on Jeopardy!
    Knowledge != Intelligence

    That's right:

    Knowledge = Knowing Facts Intelligence = Reasoning Ability

    Both are good to have, but they're not at all the same.

    It's a big pet peeve of mine that people keep getting those two confused.

    Only pointing out that, in general, MENSA members suck at Jeopardy! It's some kind of poetic justice that they're regularly beaten by "a bus driver, from Sioux City, Iowa"

  • G Money (unregistered) in reply to G Money

    Yeah, so we're in agreement. MENSA sucks.

  • webdev101 (unregistered) in reply to eight days a week
    eight days a week:
    Maybe they were subtley trying to tell him to falsify the survey results, and he's the one who didn't get it.

    Either way, WTF?

    I think they wanted two things from him at same time (first time machine and then the survey result) and he did not provide any of them.

  • JP (unregistered) in reply to dbs
    SO where's the fault? Management for asking for something they want and not getting it, or the employee for not doing something because he can't articulate why it's impossible in a way that management understands?
    But he didn't merely say that it was impossible. He said, "you want the survey results before the survey is taken?" It is way beyond reasonable to expect that anyone with a decently-functioning mind could see that such a task is impossible.

    He's not responsible for the irrationality or insanity of management.

  • (cs) in reply to Mike-o

    Yea, I've been in situations like this. I got reprimanded once for missing two project deadlines because I was on medical leave dealing with my mother's terminal brain cancer. What part of terminal brain cancer was unclear? Of COURSE I'm going to miss my goddamn deadlines, and if you have a problem with that, please fire me so I can sue the crap out of your company.

  • not so sure (unregistered) in reply to Abscissa
    Abscissa:
    Thuktun:
    G Money:
    Also, a group of people who regularly get their asses handed to them on Jeopardy!
    Knowledge != Intelligence

    That's right:

    Knowledge = Knowing Facts Intelligence = Reasoning Ability

    Both are good to have, but they're not at all the same.

    It's a big pet peeve of mine that people keep getting those two confused.

    So knowledgeable folks THINK they're smart, but intelligent folks KNOW that they MIGHT NOT be!

  • Mythbester (unregistered)

    The concept of time apparently isn't a requirement for management. Back in the day when data over cell networks was still in its infancy, a colleague was giving a presentation on it. He tested several models of phone / phone cards documenting how long each took to download a set number of e-mail headers, individual e-mails, and attachments. Speed over these networks at the time was only in the 10-20 kbps range, (That's bits, not bytes for those of you who still remember modems) so download times were measured in minutes, not seconds. In his documentation, he made the mistake of using the actual time he started. Ex. "At :20 began downloading of 50 e-mail headers. Download completed at :23. At :24 began download of email with 240K attachment. Download completed at :29." The response: What happened for the first 20 minutes? Spent a good ten minutes explaining that he started the test at 20 minutes past the hour.

  • Rafael Larios (unregistered) in reply to Jimmy Jones
    Jimmy Jones:
    Lady Nocturne:
    In Spanish, "mensa" means stupid.

    FWIW.

    No it doesn't.

    The word "mensa" doesn't exist in Spanish. The closest word I can think of is "menta" (which means "mint").

    Yes it does.... But it's a slang, and of course, not registered in the Royal Academy of Spanish Language.

    Menso = Stupid Male Mensa = Stupid Female

    Captcha: Smile... I don't think so.

  • webdev101 (unregistered) in reply to dbs
    dbs:
    Sorry, this sounds like a basic miscommunication issue. I've worked with a lot of very intelligent folks, and a lot of not-so intelligent folks. When faced with an impossible situation, and management asserting it's your fault that the impossible conditions are not being met, then the problem is you're not making it clear to them why it it's impossible.

    There's limits to WTF'edness, and I'm sorry, but I have to blame Martin for not being able to communicate well. I've seen this sort of situation come time and time again where the tech goes on and on about "This is impossible!" and management going "Just do it!" - and the problem is that management is never told, in a way they understand, WHY it is is impossible.

    SO where's the fault? Management for asking for something they want and not getting it, or the employee for not doing something because he can't articulate why it's impossible in a way that management understands?

    The post clearly says how much he tried to explain to PM about... Wait a minute...

    PM?... MENSA Boss?... is that you????

    Stop defending yourself and except the fect that you messedup.

  • Rambler (unregistered) in reply to G Money
    G Money:
    Dax:
    http://www.mensa.org/

    From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mensa_International

    Mensa International is the largest, oldest, and best-known high-IQ society in the world. The organization restricts its membership to people with high testable IQs. Specifically, potential members must score within the top 2% (98th percentile) of any approved standardized intelligence test.

    Also, a group of people who regularly get their asses handed to them on Jeopardy!

    What if all contestants are MENSA-tacular? Do they simply hand their asses to each other in a hot potato fashion?

    Could the MENSAnager use that saying towards Martin as well?

    "Whoops, dropped your arse like a hot potato!"

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