• Someone (unregistered) in reply to hwiz

    "Then the name is probably inspired by the real mensa".

    I am not in MENSA, but I do know that 'the real mensa' is Latin for 'table'

  • (cs) in reply to sf
    sf:
    Lady Nocturne:
    In Spanish, "mensa" means stupid.

    FWIW.

    In Elbonian it means "can't get laid."

    ... which is interesting, really, because as far as I can tell from friends in Mensa, that's the sole purpose of their joining. And it seems to work.

    'Course, you can't be too picky about the sociopaths you tend to pick up, but then again, I hang around bars and get drunk; so what do I know?

  • (cs) in reply to snoofle

    -- Never argue with an idiot - people might not know who is who

    I prefer -- Never argue with an idiot. First they drag you down to their level, then they beat you with experience.

  • From A Survey Programmer (unregistered)

    I actually program web and telephone surveys for a living, and sadly, Martin's WTF is totally believable.

    CLIENT: Hey! We've awarded you the job you bid on N months ago! US: That's great! Just send us the survey specs and we'll start programming. CLIENT: Here are the specs. So... do you have any data for us? US: ...

  • (cs)

    One time in early September my boss forwarded me an email from a customer who needed a report before the end of August. The customer request was sent to my boss in early August.

    I replied to my boss that we could provide the customer with the report but that there was no way we could meet the deadline. Oblivious as usual, he replied that we had to meet the deadline, and CCed the account manager and other VIPs. He also included useful suggestions, like "think out of the box".

    Since the email included the original request (and the date), it was easy for everyone to see who was the bottleneck. So I did a Reply All: "The only way we can meet this deadline is by hiring Emmett Brown".

    I still have a hard copy of this email.

  • Antony Curtis (unregistered) in reply to newfweiler
    newfweiler:
    (What if the universe really were a finite sphere but it appeared infinite because the farther away you get from the center, the smaller you get? So that the edge of the sphere is actually the limit? You probably don't understand limits so I'll explain them to you in the next fourteen paragraphs. So you see, you'd never actually reach the edge because you keep getting smaller so you think it's infinite. I have all the math in my head but I don't feel like writing it down, but it's all in what I just said so I freely give it to whatever physicist wants to be the next Einstein. Fame and fortune aren't for me.)

    Sounds like Zeno's Paradox proposed as a sphere. Not really original given that Zeno's Parodox originated in Ancient Greece.

  • (cs) in reply to dbs
    dbs:
    Sorry, this sounds like a basic miscommunication issue. I've worked with a lot of very intelligent folks, and a lot of not-so intelligent folks. When faced with an impossible situation, and management asserting it's your fault that the impossible conditions are not being met, then the problem is you're not making it clear to them why it it's impossible.

    There's limits to WTF'edness, and I'm sorry, but I have to blame Martin for not being able to communicate well. I've seen this sort of situation come time and time again where the tech goes on and on about "This is impossible!" and management going "Just do it!" - and the problem is that management is never told, in a way they understand, WHY it is is impossible.

    SO where's the fault? Management for asking for something they want and not getting it, or the employee for not doing something because he can't articulate why it's impossible in a way that management understands?

    So you must be the idiot manager who doesn't understand how a calendar works. WTF your post is about as bad at the story. How freakin' clear does he have to make it?

    This isn't a "communication issue", this is one dumbass manager.

  • Jx (unregistered) in reply to not so sure
    not so sure:
    Granted, there's more to the story than what's in the post, but it seems that the guy DID try to explain the simple concept of can't-finish-before-starting. Some bosses just don't (can't?) listen

    This one was just too blatant for any human really to have expected survey results before the survey was sent out. I have a sneaking suspicion that the programmer (who recounts the story) wasn't understanding what management was really asking for. Somewhere there is a Boss-WTF blog with the other end of the story. Something smells about this WTF entry.

  • Nick (unregistered)

    Straight out of the pointy-haired manager's book.

  • (cs) in reply to not so sure
    not so sure:
    Steamer2k:
    After a while, you learn not to fight the stupidity (a fight you cannot win), but just to let them learn from their own mistakes and CYA in the meantime.

    Do not answer a fool according to his folly, Or you will also be like him. --Proverbs 26:24

    Answer a fool as his folly deserves, That he not be wise in his own eyes. --Proverbs 26:25

    This statement is a lie!

    Never look a gift horse in the mouth. Beware of Greeks bearing gifts.

  • Jx (unregistered) in reply to MensaMember
    MensaMember:
    Martin should have done the obvious, and given the PM person the results of the survey. The fact that zero people have taken the survey doesn't mean that there are no results.

    That is the smartest response I have seen to a WTF in ages. Pick yourself up a Mensa application when you get a chance.

    Asuming this story isn't total bunk, he should have given the results (0 responses) immediately back so the boss. It would have explained the problem simply and given enough time to do whatever correction were necessary.

    My gut is that they really wanted the survey sent out sooner than the poster is saying, and he never understood what they were asking.

  • mcguire (unregistered) in reply to Not So Smart
    Not So Smart:
    So Mensa is just full of stupid people that drink a lot of caffeinated beverages?

    I know caffeinated beverages. Some of my best friends are caffeinated beverages. You have just gravely insulted caffeinated beverages, and I will not stand for it.

  • dreynolds (unregistered)

    I dont know...

    I'm betting there is another side to this story.

  • antipaula (unregistered) in reply to Mythbester
    Mythbester:
    The concept of time apparently isn't a requirement for management.

    A manager of mine says VOIP data travels at the speed of sound becuase it's audio data. He still thinks this when in long-distance calls without hour-long pauses in them.

  • Chris (unregistered) in reply to bt
    bt:
    Excuse my lack of knowledge, but what is MENSA ? In germany it's the cafeteria where students get their lunch...

    Nice. MENSA members serve German people their lunch!! :D

  • rotu (unregistered) in reply to Anonymous Mensa-Member
    <quote> Beeing a membeer of Mensa myself i can say that highly intelligent persons do stupid things too. We just do them faster! </quote>

    hahaha, right you are, you just typed "beeing" and "membeer".

  • Patrick (unregistered)

    How the boss understood it:

    Step1) Create survey. Step2) ???? Step3) PROFIT!!!!!!111111one

  • (cs) in reply to Pap
    Pap:
    I have a copy of the Mensa practice entrace exam. It's pretty questionable as to how they attempt to measure "intelligence", let me tell you.

    I always found the concept of a group of people who feel the need to demonstrate their genius-level intelligence by joining a club rather suspect.

  • (cs) in reply to real_aardvark
    real_aardvark:
    'Course, you can't be too picky about the sociopaths you tend to pick up, but then again, I hang around bars and get drunk; so what do I know?

    Your alcohol tolerance and a lot of dodgy phone numbers?

  • (cs) in reply to newfweiler
    newfweiler:
    I was never a member of MENSA, but for about a year I was a member of an even higher-IQ society.... For the rest of the year until my membership lapsed, the letters to the editor were arguments about voting systems.

    delightful story snipped

    Perhaps demonstrating that it's extremely difficult to find your arse with both hands when your brain is so huge your head gets well and truly stuck up it?

  • (cs) in reply to Steamer2k
    Steamer2k:
    Do not answer a fool according to his folly, Or you will also be like him. --Proverbs 26:24

    Answer a fool as his folly deserves, That he not be wise in his own eyes. --Proverbs 26:25

    You realise that this means nearly three millennia of management methodologies have had no effect whatsoever...? sigh I grieve for my species.

  • (cs) in reply to Abscissa
    Abscissa:
    Knowledge = Knowing Facts Intelligence = Reasoning Ability
    IQ = Ability to do IQ tests
    It's a big pet peeve of mine that people keep getting those... confused.
    Indeed.
  • Chris (unregistered) in reply to stevekj
    stevekj:
    What Martin should have done, of course, is to explain to the PM that since the chain of events specified, consisting of the transmission of the notification of the survey, ...

    That would have cleared it up for sure.

    I suspect if I was in a similar situation I would have faked stupidity. Instead of trying to explain why the person was wrong, I would act like I don't understand what the person is asking and make them redescribe their problem until they realize their own mistake.

    By telling a person they are wrong, and being idiotic you generally make them look and feel bad. If you act stupid and get them to repeat their instructions until they realize they are idiotic.

    He also probably should have went straight to his manager instead of letting the PM go to the manager.

  • (cs) in reply to clevershark
    clevershark:
    But the membership looks good on a resume.
    Until that résumé ends up on my desk, whence it will swiftly find its way into the circular file.
  • Edwin (unregistered)

    The miscommunication could still be in the Fridays. The client may have really meant next Friday, but the PM got them mixed up.

    Posting captchas is stupid.

  • Abscissa (unregistered) in reply to gwenhwyfaer
    gwenhwyfaer:
    Pap:
    I have a copy of the Mensa practice entrace exam. It's pretty questionable as to how they attempt to measure "intelligence", let me tell you.

    I always found the concept of a group of people who feel the need to demonstrate their genius-level intelligence by joining a club rather suspect.

    Where do get the idea that "feeling the need to demonstrate their genius-level intelligence" is the only reason to join? By your reasoning, I could easily say that these thedailywtf.com forums are good for nothing but people who feel a need to demonstrate their superior IT skills.

    Think about it this way: You spend your whole life putting up idiots (such as the subjects of many of these WTF stories). Can you honestly say the idea of spending time with other people who actually do grasp basic logic isn't appealing?

  • Matt (unregistered) in reply to Anonymous Mensa-Member
    Anonymous Mensa-Member:
    Beeing a membeer of Mensa myself i can say that highly intelligent persons do stupid things too. We just do them faster!

    More Quickly

  • (cs) in reply to Mike-o

    Don't every developer have a Tardis ?

  • (cs) in reply to real_aardvark
    real_aardvark:
    BTW, what exactly is the point of the "reply" button?

    I assume it sets up the "23 in reply to 14" text at the upper right of the reply. It would make a lot more sense if there were a threaded-view option, though.

    Also, we're already on page 4 of comments, and not one person has explicitly suggested attaching absolute dates to the days-of-week:

    Martin: So the surveys are going out on Monday the 22nd, and you want me to give you the results on Friday the 19th? PM: No, I want you to give me the results on Friday the 26th. Martin: Oh, no problem, then.

    Or "the surveys already went out on Monday the 15th", or "the surveys were supposed to go out on Monday the 15th but whoops they didn't".

    This is not guaranteed to work - it's possible that Martin was indeed being assigned to Project Goosefood - but it was certainly worth a try.

    (Edit: Okay, the original article showed absolute dates, but doesn't explicitly state that Martin talked about them to his PM; he may have just been thinking about them, and ass-u-ming that the PM was thinking about the same ones.)

  • Jon (unregistered) in reply to emurphy
    emurphy:
    Martin: So the surveys are going out on Monday the 22nd, and you want me to give you the results on Friday the 19th? PM: No, I want you to give me the results on Friday the 26th. Martin: Oh, no problem, then.
    I was thinking that might be the case. A definite WTF either way.
  • Devilfish (unregistered)

    "For what the king fundamentally insisted upon was that his authority should be respected. He tolerated no disobedience. He was an absolute monarch. But, because he was a very good man, he made his orders reasonable.

    "'If I ordered a general,' he would say, by way of example, 'if I ordered a general to change himself into a sea bird, and if the general did not obey me, that would not be the fault of the general. It would be my fault.'"

    -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, Le Petit Prince

    Managers should read more of some books and less of... well, other books.

  • Franz Kafka (unregistered) in reply to Jx
    Jx:
    not so sure:
    Granted, there's more to the story than what's in the post, but it seems that the guy DID try to explain the simple concept of can't-finish-before-starting. Some bosses just don't (can't?) listen

    This one was just too blatant for any human really to have expected survey results before the survey was sent out. I have a sneaking suspicion that the programmer (who recounts the story) wasn't understanding what management was really asking for. Somewhere there is a Boss-WTF blog with the other end of the story. Something smells about this WTF entry.

    So, if the programmer missed something, wouldn't that be on the PM, since it's their job to communicate?

  • Franz Kafka (unregistered) in reply to Abscissa
    Abscissa:
    Where do get the idea that "feeling the need to demonstrate their genius-level intelligence" is the only reason to join? By your reasoning, I could easily say that these thedailywtf.com forums are good for nothing but people who feel a need to demonstrate their superior IT skills.

    Think about it this way: You spend your whole life putting up idiots (such as the subjects of many of these WTF stories). Can you honestly say the idea of spending time with other people who actually do grasp basic logic isn't appealing?

    Yes. IQ is no indicator of common interest. Rather, you're gathering people together who think it's really cool that they're smart, which is distinct from some common interest. For all you know, smart means that they're pedantic assholes convinced of their own godhood or have a very narrow set of interests - it's much better to find people who like doing the things that you like doing. At least then you have something to talk about.

  • G (unregistered) in reply to dbs
    dbs:
    Sorry, this sounds like a basic miscommunication issue. I've worked with a lot of very intelligent folks, and a lot of not-so intelligent folks. When faced with an impossible situation, and management asserting it's your fault that the impossible conditions are not being met, then the problem is you're not making it clear to them why it it's impossible.

    There's limits to WTF'edness, and I'm sorry, but I have to blame Martin for not being able to communicate well.

    It seems obvious but I have to ask. You are a manager aren't you?

  • G (unregistered) in reply to dbs
    dbs:
    Sorry, this sounds like a basic miscommunication issue. I've worked with a lot of very intelligent folks, and a lot of not-so intelligent folks. When faced with an impossible situation, and management asserting it's your fault that the impossible conditions are not being met, then the problem is you're not making it clear to them why it it's impossible.

    There's limits to WTF'edness, and I'm sorry, but I have to blame Martin for not being able to communicate well.

    It seems obvious but I have to ask. You are a manager aren't you?

  • G (unregistered) in reply to dbs
    dbs:
    Sorry, this sounds like a basic miscommunication issue. I've worked with a lot of very intelligent folks, and a lot of not-so intelligent folks. When faced with an impossible situation, and management asserting it's your fault that the impossible conditions are not being met, then the problem is you're not making it clear to them why it it's impossible.

    There's limits to WTF'edness, and I'm sorry, but I have to blame Martin for not being able to communicate well.

    It seems obvious but I have to ask. You are a manager aren't you?

  • jokeyxero (unregistered) 
                    _________________________________________
               / ~  R U S H   J O B   C A L E N D A R  ~ \
              /|_____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____|\
              || NEG | FRI | FRI | FRI | THU | WED | TUE ||
              ||-----'-----'-----'-----'-----'-----'-----||
              ||  8  |  7  |  6  |  5  |  4  |  3  |  2  ||
              ||----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -----||
              || 16  | 15  | 14  | 12  | 11  | 10  |  9  ||
              ||----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -----||
              || 23  | 22  | 21  | 20  | 19  | 18  | 17  ||
              ||----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -----||
              || 32  | 30  | 28  | 27  | 26  | 25  | 24  ||
              ||----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -----||
              || 39  | 38  | 37  | 36  | 35  | 34  | 33  ||
              \|----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -----|/
               `~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

 1. This is a special calendar for handling rush jobs.  All rush jobs
    are wanted yesterday.  With this calendar a job can be ordered on
    the 7th and delivered on the 3rd.

 2. Most jobs are required by Friday, so there are three Fridays in
    every week.

 3. There are eight new days added to each month to allow for
    end-of-the-month panic jobs.

 4. There is no 1st of the month - thus avoiding late delivery of the
    previous month's last-minute panic jobs.

 5. Monday morning hangovers are abolished together with the removal of
    non-productive Saturday's and Sunday's.

 6. A new day - Negotiation Day - has been introduced keeping the other
    days free for uninterrupted panic.

    CAPTCHA - pointer...if only days had them this wouldn't be a problem...

  • Tom Dibble (unregistered) in reply to typical_cracker
    typical_cracker:
    bad boss:
    I had an unethical boss explain that sort of behaviour to me some years ago.

    Make up impossible tasks in order to get rid of an employee you don't like.

    Exactly what I was thinking. It's much easier to fire someone for not doing their job then it is to say:

    "Look, we really don't want you here, there's 2 months severance pay, have a nice life."

    Fooey on managers that don't have the balls to do the right thing. I hope you get back someday what you've dished out for years.

    It just sucks having to explain to an unemployment official why you got fired and why it was an unlawful firing and why you really should get unemployment benefits.

    Most companies I know of are strictly "At Will Employers". Which is, a legal term in your employment contract which states that you can be fired at any time, for any reason, or no reason whatsoever.

    The only obligation of such employers is to ensure that prior to firing an individual for not fitting in the firing can not be seen to be caused by one of the protected attributes (gender, age, medical conditions, taking advantage of leave, filing complaints, etc, etc, etc).

    IMHO, the request for results should have been obliged with an empty (0 responses) results report, or a bogus "1 response, 2 responses, etc" report to show what it looks like with data. I'm about 75% sure that's what was being asked for, but Mr MENSA and co weren't able to communicate it effectively to the developer. Still a WTF, but not because they were asking for results three days prior to the survey.

  • (cs)

    Next time I recompile my LaTeX resume, I'm adding "Mysterious Powers of the Mind" to my hobbies section.

  • schmitty (unregistered)

    I had a client who wanted the mind reading select list. She hadn't discovered the ctrl key. It was a list of 8 items in a multiple select. She wanted me to reorder the items according to how she wanted to select them on each visit to the page. How else was shift only going to select the items she needed.

  • Heinz Gorgon Mittelmacher (unregistered) in reply to Dax
    Dax:
    http://www.mensa.org/

    From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mensa_International

    Mensa International is the largest, oldest, and best-known high-IQ society in the world. The organization restricts its membership to people with high testable IQs. Specifically, potential members must score within the top 2% (98th percentile) of any approved standardized intelligence test.

    They are also a bunch of eugenicist nuts who are organized in the only sensible superinterlligent way, by the führer principle. Unfortunately, since they all think they are the smartest, there is a lot of shouting and name-calling in between the just-hanging-out-with-other-people-who-think-they-are-smart business (which is one of the reasons there are so many other microscopic high-IQ societies).

    --HGM. One IQ test, in millitary, full marks, in case anyone wants to know, and I suspect mensans will when they read this.

    Bling!

  • kokorozashi (unregistered) in reply to dbs
    SO where's the fault? Management for asking for something they want and not getting it, or the employee for not doing something because he can't articulate why it's impossible in a way that management understands?
    Neither. Not everything is a communication problem. Management should have a basic grasp of time. End of story.
  • Brady Kelly (unregistered) in reply to bad boss
    bad boss:
    I had an unethical boss explain that sort of behaviour to me some years ago.

    Make up impossible tasks in order to get rid of an employee you don't like.

    If you resigned over that, in South Africa that would be very good grounds for compensation for what is called "constructive dismissal".

  • disaster (unregistered) in reply to BAH
    BAH:
    This is perfectly in keeping with management as I know it. "I sold the customer a structural analysis of his application by later today for $1000. He gave me this two-sentence verbal description of the system." "It takes at least two weeks and source code, and we usually charge at least $10K. There's a lot of work involved, that's why the reports are usually 20 to 50 pages." "The customer said he only wants to know if the application will fail or not. That's only one word. He doesn't need all the pages of report, and he was only willing to spend $1000. Let me know the answer by 4 o'clock."

    So how long does it take to write "maybe"?

  • Not a Robot (unregistered) in reply to Franz Kafka
    Franz Kafka:
    Abscissa:
    Where do get the idea that "feeling the need to demonstrate their genius-level intelligence" is the only reason to join? By your reasoning, I could easily say that these thedailywtf.com forums are good for nothing but people who feel a need to demonstrate their superior IT skills.

    Think about it this way: You spend your whole life putting up idiots (such as the subjects of many of these WTF stories). Can you honestly say the idea of spending time with other people who actually do grasp basic logic isn't appealing?

    Yes. IQ is no indicator of common interest. Rather, you're gathering people together who think it's really cool that they're smart, which is distinct from some common interest. For all you know, smart means that they're pedantic assholes convinced of their own godhood or have a very narrow set of interests - it's much better to find people who like doing the things that you like doing. At least then you have something to talk about.

    That sounds like Smart, indeed. Derek Smart, Ph.D. Kind of.

  • disaster (unregistered) in reply to Antony Curtis
    Antony Curtis:
    newfweiler:
    (What if the universe really were a finite sphere but it appeared infinite because the farther away you get from the center, the smaller you get? So that the edge of the sphere is actually the limit? You probably don't understand limits so I'll explain them to you in the next fourteen paragraphs. So you see, you'd never actually reach the edge because you keep getting smaller so you think it's infinite. I have all the math in my head but I don't feel like writing it down, but it's all in what I just said so I freely give it to whatever physicist wants to be the next Einstein. Fame and fortune aren't for me.)

    Sounds like Zeno's Paradox proposed as a sphere. Not really original given that Zeno's Parodox originated in Ancient Greece.

    It sounds more like a spherical embedding of Lobachevsky's hyperbolic geometry.You can use it to prove that Euclid's parallel axiom is independent of all the others.

  • PLasmab (unregistered) in reply to bad boss

    Thats what industrial tribunals are for. In this case it would just show up how stupid the managers were. MENSA.

  • mz (unregistered)

    Yeah.Actually this sort of thing happened to me. I was working on an interactive voice response(IVR) application for a well-known local radio station.I got a phonecall on Tuesday: "We need the new application by Monday this week!", the station manager said."But today is Tuesday", I replying. "I know, but we took the decision to change the application Friday in a board meating and we forgot to tell you". WTF?!

  • Rhialto (unregistered) in reply to hwiz
    hwiz:
    Then the name is probably inspired by the real mensa:
    Mensa is the Latin word for table. Hence, a cafetaria/restaurant at a university, where the table symbolises food.
  • Alex (unregistered) in reply to G Money

    As a former Mensa member myself I can tell you that IQ and knowledge are not connected.

    And yup, IQ is a pretty lame intelligens measurement. It measures something, but what it is is questionable, and it certainly isn't knowledge...

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