The Daily WTF: Curious Perversions in Information Technology

2011-12-06 Reply Admin

Only if you work in some country without workers rights. Where I live, once your contract is signed, they would have a very hard job firing you for stuff you had done, PRIOR to your employment.

Working in a country where it would be acceptable to be fired, after you were hired, for something you had done prior to your employment, is the real WTF.

2011-12-06 Reply Admin

Seriously forget StarWars HR:
It's not so much about not burning a bridge that should not have been built, it's about the burning bridge falling into the replacement bridge and the resulting wreckage stopping you from building a new bridge anywhere else in the whole state . . .

Wait, so they got a replacement bridge up before the original tumbled over...and they put it in the path of the wreckage? I applaud them for their speed, but...

2011-12-06 Reply Admin

ObiWayneKenobi:
And again, *smart* HR people

Stop right there.

2011-12-06 Reply Admin

Miguel should have used the opportunity to learn from Stefan rather than complain about him. I like his style. Give developers latitude to do their work, but have final say as the source control conduit, giving him an opportunity to leverage his more senior knowledge and experience to improve upon his team's work. It's win-win.

Had Miguel been on board with that, he'd be in management by now.

MarkJ · 2011-12-06 Reply Admin

ObiWayneKenobi:
In situations like this, the correct answer is always to quit immediately - no notice, no two weeks, just immediate I quit. If you're feeling particularly vengeful send a scathing email that basically says words to the effect of "In case you can't tell, this is a software department. Your ridiculous standards and lack of trust for your developers clearly show that you have no clue how to run a modern software department, or any kind of software department. In fact, I wouldn't trust you to run a bath. Go away and grow up."
There is nothing wrong with burning a bridge that should never have been erected in the first place.

Sending scathing emails is a waste of your time; they won't understand it because they know they're right. It's best just to find another job, then give the minimum notice. You don't want to make your new employer nervous immediately, do you?

2011-12-06 Reply Admin

I would have told her that "It's fine to have 40 hour week. But don't complain if any project deadline is sliped because of this."

If she is sane enough, she would have backed off.

2011-12-06 Reply Admin

Can't tell if you are trolling or not.

In any case, it is depressing how low the quality bar is, for crappy source control to be "nothing"....

2011-12-06 Reply Admin

I guess they put the replacement bridge up because they recognised that the original bridge was a fire hazard. If this was the case, it would be pretty stupid to build the replacement bridge underneath the old flammable one, unless geography or budget prevented a choice, in which case the problem of flaming wreckage falling on the new bridge is a calculated risk.

In any case, I am assuming that the wreckage is causing a blockage or other damage to the new bridge, preventing travel to the only other parts of the state that need bridges. If this was the case, wouldn't that be impetus to build yet another bridge?

2011-12-07 Reply Admin

Sutherlands:
boog:
When I'm ready to "commit" my changes to StephanSVN, I'd just request the latest copy of the file,
Stephan's system was a black hole. Code went in, but didn't ever come back out.
boog:
Besides, when his solution doesn't work, I've still got my solution in my local SVN, so I can just merge it back in.
Stephan's system was a black hole. Code went in, but didn't ever come back out.

Why are so many folks out here trying to show how smart they are by claiming that the WTF is NotReallyTF

oheso · 2011-12-07 Reply Admin

My Name Is Missing:
Same place where we all got a memo about saving the company money by reusing paperclips. At a defense contractor no less...

Have you seen the cost of milspec paperclips?

2011-12-07 Reply Admin

s73v3r:
I really, really, really don't understand this. Ok, they want to track hours, not for pay purposes, as you're all salaried, to have a better idea of how long things are taking. But if that's the case, then why would you want to fudge the numbers like that?

Reminds me of my last job where I had to fill in timesheets the same way. When I entered the really number of hours my PM told me that I was too slow. When I entered the expected number of hours he told me that I was not working enough.

QJo · 2011-12-07 Reply Admin

Keine Macht fuer niemand:
s73v3r:
I really, really, really don't understand this. Ok, they want to track hours, not for pay purposes, as you're all salaried, to have a better idea of how long things are taking. But if that's the case, then why would you want to fudge the numbers like that?

Reminds me of my last job where I had to fill in timesheets the same way. When I entered the really number of hours my PM told me that I was too slow. When I entered the expected number of hours he told me that I was not working enough.

... so you took that as your alarm signal that it was time to move on?

The timesheet nightmare, when it happens, is nothing more than that you are no longer in the role that you envisaged for yourself. If the tedium and irritation of filling in the timesheet outweighs the delight and joy of doing a good job, then either you've reached the points where your job is no longer enjoyable, or your manager has nothing better to do which means the management structure has either become too top-heavy or (worse) the actual prospects for further sales to customers have dried up.

Timesheets as such are not completely useless. If done properly (stop laughing at the back, you incorrigible cynics) then they provide an indication (possibly only an approximation, but better than guesswork) of how much it really cost to deliver that project.

2011-12-07 Reply Admin

Maybe we're just naturally polite in Britain, but the *slightest sniff* of political, social or moral dissatisfaction with your last place of employment at the job interview is likely to lose you the job. Also, think of it like this: HR personnel talk to each other. Wait till you've *actually landed* the next job till you start telling campfire tales round the proverbial water cooler.

This is just a sign of a rotting culture. That incompetent gatekeepers of HR just can't seem to deal with reality. They probably "think" because someone was unsatisfied with a job therefore he will be unsatisfied with every job. Stereotypical thinking at its best. Some people are so overly sensitive that they seem to be hurt by a simple fact. Problems are "solved" by sweeping them under the rug because "We are too weak-spined to deal with them." It's all about "saving face".

2011-12-07 Reply Admin

This post, like so many on this site, reads like it came from an underachiever who is upset that they have not been handed the promotion he believes he deserves. If "Steven" and co were so incompetent, why were they headhunted by another company? Why were they kept on in a consultant role? Why was the OP not offered the job, if he was such an expert in software development and delivery?

There is no context as to why management decided to disallow carte-blanche access to the source code, but there are several perfectly legitimate business reasons for code to be audited by a trusted, proven programmer.

Judging by the tone of the original post, in this case this safety net may well have been the difference between product delivery as close as possible to on time and within budget, vs a PR disaster. The only "WTF" I can see here is the spoilt-kid attitude of the OP, presuming the story is true and not just the tantrum of an ungrateful man-child "leet coder". Grow up.

2011-12-07 Reply Admin

TRWTF is SVN

2011-12-07 Reply Admin

someone:
Tangoman:
So the management system in place was inefficient - welcome to my little world
The whole "real" world is exactly the same as my little world. nothing to see here, move along please...

FTFY

:o

Out-trolled!

QJo · 2011-12-07 Reply Admin

ThomasX:
Maybe we're just naturally polite in Britain, but the *slightest sniff* of political, social or moral dissatisfaction with your last place of employment at the job interview is likely to lose you the job. Also, think of it like this: HR personnel talk to each other. Wait till you've *actually landed* the next job till you start telling campfire tales round the proverbial water cooler.

This is just a sign of a rotting culture. That incompetent gatekeepers of HR just can't seem to deal with reality. They probably "think" because someone was unsatisfied with a job therefore he will be unsatisfied with every job. Stereotypical thinking at its best. Some people are so overly sensitive that they seem to be hurt by a simple fact. Problems are "solved" by sweeping them under the rug because "We are too weak-spined to deal with them." It's all about "saving face".

It's not a matter of weakness or ignoring problems. It's purely a matter of wanting to employ someone with sufficiently good social skills to be able to remain polite and professional in situations where a lesser person would let his ego take over and cause embarrassment. I've seen what happens when an engineer (worthy and clever though he was in his chosen field) "throw a wobbly" (at a substandard piece of code he was supposed to maintain, or something) to such a degree that his string of screamed expletives were heard in the conference room where a group of potential customers for a lucrative contract were being briefed. For better or worse, those customers became uncomfortable and embarrassed (not to mention the poor engineer who was doing the presentation) to the extent that the customers' experience of our company was soured. So be damned to the icy purity of truth and goodness - if there's a hint on the horizon that an engineer hasn't got the emotional maturity and self-control to comport himself in a professional manner, I most definitely want to hear about it. *No* egotistical little cry-babies are going to work anywhere near me, if I have any control over it.

If indeed you do have a genuine grievance with a company you are leaving for another, then: a) Express your concerns in your exit interview b) Share your reasons for believing you are hard done by with your manager, in a polite and non-confrontational manner c) Once you have landed your next job, bring your experience at the previous one into the public domain by suggesting where certain potential (or actual) policies at your new company may have possible shortfalls.

Anything else is pointless, and is also damaging to both yourself and the software industry as a whole. The "general public" have already got an image of us as a selfish bunch of overpaid prima-donnas who act like a bunch of child supermodels as it is. Don't go compounding the problem.

2011-12-07 Reply Admin

QJo:
The "general public" have already got an image of us as a selfish bunch of overpaid prima-donnas who act like a bunch of child supermodels as it is.

But with more donuts...

QJo · 2011-12-07 Reply Admin

Tangoman:
QJo:
The "general public" have already got an image of us as a selfish bunch of overpaid prima-donnas who act like a bunch of child supermodels as it is.

But with more donuts...

+1 FTW

And pizza.

Addendum (2011-12-07 06:39):

Tangoman:
QJo:
The "general public" have already got an image of us as a selfish bunch of overpaid prima-donnas who act like a bunch of child supermodels as it is.

But with more donuts...

+1 FTW

And pizza.

You can buy a lot of goodwill amongst your staff by sending out on occasion (particularly when they're contributing far beyond the call of duty) for lashings of pizza. Caveat: You also need to make sure they are also compensated either with appropriate remuneration or with time off in lieu. But a little appreciation and good-vibes goes a very long way.

2011-12-07 Reply Admin

Common Sense:
This post, like so many on this site, reads like it came from an underachiever who is upset that they have not been handed the promotion he believes he deserves. If "Steven" and co were so incompetent, why were they headhunted by another company? Why were they kept on in a consultant role? Why was the OP not offered the job, if he was such an expert in software development and delivery?
There is no context as to why management decided to disallow carte-blanche access to the source code, but there are several perfectly legitimate business reasons for code to be audited by a trusted, proven programmer.

Judging by the tone of the original post, in this case this safety net may well have been the difference between product delivery as close as possible to on time and within budget, vs a PR disaster. The only "WTF" I can see here is the spoilt-kid attitude of the OP, presuming the story is true and not just the tantrum of an ungrateful man-child "leet coder". Grow up.

This is a great point. Cream rises to the top in an organization. The most senior developers on staff get to their stations for a reason -- they are the best at what they do. New hires would do well to follow their lead. Two ears, one mouth.

QJo · 2011-12-07 Reply Admin

geoffrey:
Common Sense:
This post, like so many on this site, reads like it came from an underachiever who is upset that they have not been handed the promotion he believes he deserves. If "Steven" and co were so incompetent, why were they headhunted by another company? Why were they kept on in a consultant role? Why was the OP not offered the job, if he was such an expert in software development and delivery?
There is no context as to why management decided to disallow carte-blanche access to the source code, but there are several perfectly legitimate business reasons for code to be audited by a trusted, proven programmer.

Judging by the tone of the original post, in this case this safety net may well have been the difference between product delivery as close as possible to on time and within budget, vs a PR disaster. The only "WTF" I can see here is the spoilt-kid attitude of the OP, presuming the story is true and not just the tantrum of an ungrateful man-child "leet coder". Grow up.

This is a great point. Cream rises to the top in an organization. The most senior developers on staff get to their stations for a reason -- they are the best at what they do. New hires would do well to follow their lead. Two ears, one mouth.

Yes. Be quiet and listen, geoffrey.

2011-12-07 Reply Admin

SVN uses snvserve (usually) to serve localhost (its client-server, not filesystem like git). Its accessible to the network.

2011-12-07 Reply Admin

Cheong:
I would have told her that "It's fine to have 40 hour week. But don't complain if any project deadline is sliped because of this."
If she is sane enough, she would have backed off.

Why talk? its friday ,14:30. You need two more hours to ship the software but just hit the 40.

So email: " Could not finish shipping cause of the 40h rule. Stoped working as told."

then leave.

Where is the problem?

2011-12-07 Reply Admin

ObiWayneKenobi:
Justice:
FTFY
There's no harm in extending a little professional courtesy, even when dealing with someone who is being completely unprofessional. Yeah, it probably won't impress them in the slightest, but it may well impress your co-workers.

If you need a reference down the line, would you rather be remembered as the guy who ragequit with zero notice, or the guy who kept his cool in the face of such madness?

Funnily enough my original version included a line that said "Signing it Bert Glanstron optional".

Anyways, given that most places I've seen would blackball someone based only on the fact they dared to leave, I'm of the opinion that someone who gives no courtesy or respect deserves neither courtesy nor respect.

To put it in layman's terms: A douchebag deserves a douchy response. There's no logical reason to eat shit and pretend to be all smiles when someone is obviously a sociopathic lunatic that has no business being part of the human race, let alone in the workforce. Being nice to "be the better man" in the fact of a scumbag like this does nothing except empower them. If more people were reluctant to take shit and were more apt to just say "Screw this" and leave, scum like this wouldn't be able to exist.

These people are hostis humani generis, enemies of the human race, and should not be allowed to exist.

Preee ciselayh

If only people had balls --

2011-12-07 Reply Admin

callcopse:
ObiWayneKenobi:

Funnily enough my original version included a line that said "Signing it Bert Glanstron optional".

Anyways, given that most places I've seen would blackball someone based only on the fact they dared to leave, I'm of the opinion that someone who gives no courtesy or respect deserves neither courtesy nor respect.

Original version? Please tell me you are adequately developer-y to keep your comments in a special source code repository and version them? That would be so cool!

I disagree with your fundamental premise though. Never under such circumstances should one be disssuaded from an icy yet professional demeanour. I see your point of view but let's face it, it will never do anyone any good and can only do you down.

Not always true ... In "The Social Network", suckermountain's speech to the investors actually succeeded due to its 'notgivinashit' attitude - .. and who are you to say a movie is wrong,seriously ?

2011-12-07 Reply Admin

ObiWayneKenobi:
Seriously forget StarWars HR:
Justice:
ObiWayneKenobi:
In situations like this, the correct answer is always to quit immediately - no notice, no two weeks, just immediate I quit. If you're feeling particularly vengeful send a scathing email

There's no harm in extending a little professional courtesy,

I think ObiWayneKenobi is trolling.

In case anyone actually feels that way, consider someone called in to HR after two days on the job. HR says "We received a copy of the e-mail you sent to all the employees at your last job on your last day. We found it extremely unprofessional. We cannot trust someone capable of doing that. Security is outside and will escort you off the premises." That person had moved several hundred miles for the new job.

It's not so much about not burning a bridge that should not have been built, it's about the burning bridge falling into the replacement bridge and the resulting wreckage stopping you from building a new bridge anywhere else in the whole state . . .

No, I'm not trolling. I'm sick and tired of the "bad guys" winning and getting to stay in business, make life miserable for people working for them, because nobody has the balls to realize that idiots are idiots and need to realize that you should NOT get ahead in life by being a total douchebag and not knowing anything about anything.

I've deal with WTF places like this hellhole for my entire IT career, and the places have always prospered and flourished despite doing everything flat out WRONG, because people go with the flow or pretend that everything is fine, or when they leave they say there is no problems when there are enough problems to fill this site for an entire year.

You should not be forced to put on a show of courtesy for somebody who deserves to have the shit kicked out of them and run out of business for being an absolute clueless moron.

To whit: What any smart person should think if they got wind of that would be "What an absolute hellhole that company must have been for an employee to be forced to resort to that. Let's make sure that we never do anything like that to OUR employees". In fact I would go as far as to say that any company that felt the way your example did is another hellhole filled with clueless morons who pull the status quo.

But seriously though ... packaging the "you are a moron and should never even touch a computer or a computer-related decision" in a beautiful ice cold professional letter .. can be a pleasure too ;)

2011-12-07 Reply Admin

TheJonB:
OneOfTheFew:
Why didn't Miguel just quit? That's what I would have done.
You may have missed the broader macroeconomic situation.
Perhaps try watch the news instead of the cartoons?

The broader macroeconomic situation is for fags .

I don't give a shit that it's recession or whatever.

I rock at what I do and I can demonstrate it, I don't need to be afraid because half a million useless fools want the same job as I do.

The worse the situation, the bigger the difference between the good and the bad.

Always been like that, always will be.

And for the most ridiculous proof ever : in WoW,there is almost no way to see the difference between a good healer and bad healer on overstuffed routine content.

Now go for new content, without overstuff and lots of wipes... there you can see who's good and who just plain sucks.

Same for work : when there's no crisis, companies spend left and right and don't quite care what they get for it.

Then recession hits and hey .. maybe we should get something for what we pay ? maybe we should outsource ? maybe we should consider people who deliver rather than partners with with a business volume over 35mil a year ?

And that's where the good will shine and the bad will go back to cleaning up the streets. Amen !

Sock Puppet 5 · 2011-12-07 Reply Admin

40-hour limit? Maybe it's some kind of incentive system. A nearby defense contractor allows their employees to take every other Friday off if they work 9 hours-per-day. In this company, could you work 10-hour days and take a day off per week?

Better yet, what if they let you CHOOSE the days that you worked. Personally, unless I'm doing a two-day project, I would much rather have my times off spread out. Think Sunday/Wednesday or Tuesday/Saturday. If you went down to a 4-day work-week, you could make it work out where you only have to do two consecutive days one time.

QJo · 2011-12-07 Reply Admin

L.:
ObiWayneKenobi:
Justice:
FTFY
There's no harm in extending a little professional courtesy, even when dealing with someone who is being completely unprofessional. Yeah, it probably won't impress them in the slightest, but it may well impress your co-workers.

If you need a reference down the line, would you rather be remembered as the guy who ragequit with zero notice, or the guy who kept his cool in the face of such madness?

Funnily enough my original version included a line that said "Signing it Bert Glanstron optional".

Anyways, given that most places I've seen would blackball someone based only on the fact they dared to leave, I'm of the opinion that someone who gives no courtesy or respect deserves neither courtesy nor respect.

To put it in layman's terms: A douchebag deserves a douchy response. There's no logical reason to eat shit and pretend to be all smiles when someone is obviously a sociopathic lunatic that has no business being part of the human race, let alone in the workforce. Being nice to "be the better man" in the fact of a scumbag like this does nothing except empower them. If more people were reluctant to take shit and were more apt to just say "Screw this" and leave, scum like this wouldn't be able to exist.

These people are hostis humani generis, enemies of the human race, and should not be allowed to exist.

Preee ciselayh

If only people had balls --

I think the problem I have with this is the "obviously a psychopathic lunatic". Most likely this person is a perfectly reasonable person in normal life (most people are, you know) but has a problem in that they are in a position to which they are unsuited. Maybe the constraints from higher up (with whom he has problems himself of a similar nature to those you have with him) are giving him problems to solve which are insoluble because of their inherently contradictory premises. The poor guy may be as close to a nervous breakdown as you are to throwing a paddy-tantrum.

To use language borrowed from the I Ching: the superior man will attempt to communicate with this boss, to request a meeting in which points of view are expressed, understandings are approached, and communication is opened. Find a way to get through to him,and offer to collaborate on the supposedly insoluble problem that he has.

If you insist on thinking of him in the stereotypical language of the gutter, then that is how you will continue to view him, and your attitude towards him will show to such an extent that he will then view you in exactly the same way. And, from the tenor of some of the egregious comments on this forum, fully justifiably.

QJo · 2011-12-07 Reply Admin

L.:
TheJonB:
OneOfTheFew:
Why didn't Miguel just quit? That's what I would have done.
You may have missed the broader macroeconomic situation.
Perhaps try watch the news instead of the cartoons?

The broader macroeconomic situation is for fags .

I don't give a shit that it's recession or whatever.

I rock at what I do and I can demonstrate it, I don't need to be afraid because half a million useless fools want the same job as I do.

The worse the situation, the bigger the difference between the good and the bad.

Always been like that, always will be.

And for the most ridiculous proof ever : in WoW,there is almost no way to see the difference between a good healer and bad healer on overstuffed routine content.

Now go for new content, without overstuff and lots of wipes... there you can see who's good and who just plain sucks.

Same for work : when there's no crisis, companies spend left and right and don't quite care what they get for it.

Then recession hits and hey .. maybe we should get something for what we pay ? maybe we should outsource ? maybe we should consider people who deliver rather than partners with with a business volume over 35mil a year ?

And that's where the good will shine and the bad will go back to cleaning up the streets. Amen !

Good grief! Are you on crack or something?

2011-12-07 Reply Admin

ObiWayneKenobi:
And again, *smart* HR people would think "How bad must that place have been to get a response like that?" and not "What an ungrateful employee, daring to speak against such a wonderful company!" I know I would if I was in HR and someone at another company told me how such-and-such employee stormed out. My first thought would be "Wow your company must be a complete shithole" and not "The nerve of that peasant! I'll be sure to blacklist him."
I really wonder how HR people can live with themselves, since most of them seem totally drunk on the corporate kool-aid and think the company is divine and can do no wrong.

It really seems to me that most people have no idea how things SHOULD be done and just follow the status quo because that's how things have always been. It's deplorable, really.

You forget the major fact about HR :

They are Htotally Ruseless .

They would not survive a single second outside of the warm cocoon of corporate bullshit, and they have to keep budgets for themselves so they're parasites, no way they'll speak against their host --

Sock Puppet 5 · 2011-12-07 Reply Admin

Are you delusional? In my experience, management is either a) not technical enough to properly evaluate technical prowess, or b) too technical to excel in staffing decisions. In publically-traded companies, it has been worse, because many decisions are driven by investors demanding increasing profits every quarter. Technical resources are treated like commodities: Price is a major factor

Exibit A: Prevalence of "dual-shoring" Exibit B: "Built by the lowest bidder." Exibit C: Reliance on contractors (lower caliber/higher pay, but for a shorter period of time)

Also, realize that management does not make its decisions based on competence alone:

Exibit D: Nepotism Exibit E: Height Premium Exibit F: Attractiveness Bonus

Not spam, askimet. You would think there would be an advantage to being a registered user.

2011-12-07 Reply Admin

Sutherlands:
Matt Westwood:
The real WTF is working in a country where 40 hours is de rigueur. Emigrate to a green and pleasant land where 37.5 or even (sweet, sweet, feel the love) 35 is the norm.
Indeed. How do we live without that extra 30 minutes a day in our lives? Oh wait, we don't live in Europe, that's how.

Yes he is referring to Europe . However the reality is not so. Both France (35h) and Belgium (38h) are far from their official hours a week.

Most of the people I know (engineers, IT) work over 50 hours a week and are expected to do so for free.

2011-12-07 Reply Admin

L.:
You forget the major fact about HR :
They are Htotally Ruseless.

Some of those blond ones are hot, though, and she's on the way to the bathroom, so I have use for her anyway.

HR: Hot Retards

2011-12-07 Reply Admin

based on these comments, I surmise the academic semester is over?

frits · 2011-12-07 Reply Admin

Sock Puppet 5:
Are you delusional? In my experience, management is either a) not technical enough to properly evaluate technical prowess, or b) too technical to excel in staffing decisions. In publically-traded companies, it has been worse, because many decisions are driven by investors demanding increasing profits every quarter. Technical resources are treated like commodities: Price is a major factor
Exibit A: Prevalence of "dual-shoring" Exibit B: "Built by the lowest bidder." Exibit C: Reliance on contractors (lower caliber/higher pay, but for a shorter period of time)

Also, realize that management does not make its decisions based on competence alone:

Exibit D: Nepotism Exibit E: Height Premium Exibit F: Attractiveness Bonus

Not spam, askimet. You would think there would be an advantage to being a registered user.

Yeah, well, we're hairless apes. What do you expect?

2011-12-07 Reply Admin

QJo:
ThomasX:
Maybe we're just naturally polite in Britain, but the *slightest sniff* of political, social or moral dissatisfaction with your last place of employment at the job interview is likely to lose you the job. Also, think of it like this: HR personnel talk to each other. Wait till you've *actually landed* the next job till you start telling campfire tales round the proverbial water cooler.

This is just a sign of a rotting culture. That incompetent gatekeepers of HR just can't seem to deal with reality. They probably "think" because someone was unsatisfied with a job therefore he will be unsatisfied with every job. Stereotypical thinking at its best. Some people are so overly sensitive that they seem to be hurt by a simple fact. Problems are "solved" by sweeping them under the rug because "We are too weak-spined to deal with them." It's all about "saving face".

It's not a matter of weakness or ignoring problems. It's purely a matter of wanting to employ someone with sufficiently good social skills to be able to remain polite and professional in situations where a lesser person would let his ego take over and cause embarrassment. I've seen what happens when an engineer (worthy and clever though he was in his chosen field) "throw a wobbly" (at a substandard piece of code he was supposed to maintain, or something) to such a degree that his string of screamed expletives were heard in the conference room where a group of potential customers for a lucrative contract were being briefed. For better or worse, those customers became uncomfortable and embarrassed (not to mention the poor engineer who was doing the presentation) to the extent that the customers' experience of our company was soured. So be damned to the icy purity of truth and goodness - if there's a hint on the horizon that an engineer hasn't got the emotional maturity and self-control to comport himself in a professional manner, I most definitely want to hear about it. *No* egotistical little cry-babies are going to work anywhere near me, if I have any control over it.
If indeed you do have a genuine grievance with a company you are leaving for another, then: a) Express your concerns in your exit interview b) Share your reasons for believing you are hard done by with your manager, in a polite and non-confrontational manner c) Once you have landed your next job, bring your experience at the previous one into the public domain by suggesting where certain potential (or actual) policies at your new company may have possible shortfalls.

Anything else is pointless, and is also damaging to both yourself and the software industry as a whole. The "general public" have already got an image of us as a selfish bunch of overpaid prima-donnas who act like a bunch of child supermodels as it is. Don't go compounding the problem.

Your argument does not hold once you separate those who do the work from those who sell it.

There is NO valid reason to have devs in the same place as phone-call-addicted project managers or sales people.

That's where your issue came from, and most companies simply solve that by not having the smart-but-annoying guys on another floor.

It's not like you can be that picky to get only smart-and-socially-brilliant people, and I don't believe any company should avoid smart-but-annoying types . They're often a good source of value for a reasonable price.

TheRider · 2011-12-07 Reply Admin

Nagesh:
Overtime is very much paid in all billing projects.

Yes, but to your employer, not necessarily to you.

PedanticCurmudgeon · 2011-12-07 Reply Admin

s73v3r:
C-Octothorpe:
Fight fire with fire.
He's a douchebag to you, you be a douchebag right back. And after he fires you and has your ass removed from the premises, you would have shown him the error of his ways.

Wait, what?

Well, there is the immediate loss of a developer on a project. That surely can't be pain free.

That depends on the developer. I had a co-worker once who actually created more work than he did.

2011-12-07 Reply Admin

QJo:
L.:
ObiWayneKenobi:
Justice:
FTFY
There's no harm in extending a little professional courtesy, even when dealing with someone who is being completely unprofessional. Yeah, it probably won't impress them in the slightest, but it may well impress your co-workers.

If you need a reference down the line, would you rather be remembered as the guy who ragequit with zero notice, or the guy who kept his cool in the face of such madness?

Funnily enough my original version included a line that said "Signing it Bert Glanstron optional".

Anyways, given that most places I've seen would blackball someone based only on the fact they dared to leave, I'm of the opinion that someone who gives no courtesy or respect deserves neither courtesy nor respect.

To put it in layman's terms: A douchebag deserves a douchy response. There's no logical reason to eat shit and pretend to be all smiles when someone is obviously a sociopathic lunatic that has no business being part of the human race, let alone in the workforce. Being nice to "be the better man" in the fact of a scumbag like this does nothing except empower them. If more people were reluctant to take shit and were more apt to just say "Screw this" and leave, scum like this wouldn't be able to exist.

These people are hostis humani generis, enemies of the human race, and should not be allowed to exist.

Preee ciselayh

If only people had balls --

I think the problem I have with this is the "obviously a psychopathic lunatic". Most likely this person is a perfectly reasonable person in normal life (most people are, you know) but has a problem in that they are in a position to which they are unsuited. Maybe the constraints from higher up (with whom he has problems himself of a similar nature to those you have with him) are giving him problems to solve which are insoluble because of their inherently contradictory premises. The poor guy may be as close to a nervous breakdown as you are to throwing a paddy-tantrum.

To use language borrowed from the I Ching: the superior man will attempt to communicate with this boss, to request a meeting in which points of view are expressed, understandings are approached, and communication is opened. Find a way to get through to him,and offer to collaborate on the supposedly insoluble problem that he has.

If you insist on thinking of him in the stereotypical language of the gutter, then that is how you will continue to view him, and your attitude towards him will show to such an extent that he will then view you in exactly the same way. And, from the tenor of some of the egregious comments on this forum, fully justifiably.

You sir are correct.

However you imply that there is a good justification for this investment, which often does not exist.

It could take a whole f*ton of skills, energy and time to get to some of those people, while at the same time you can get a better job in two days.

The big question is :

Why should a technical expert be required to be vastly superior in social skills in order for him to do his job correctly ?

Why do companies insist on wasting time and money by not addressing this obvious problem ?

It's been an eternity that management could not understand experts, and yet they still expect the social solution to come from them although they have selected them for their particular skill diagram, which mostly has a spike in their area of expertise.

That is the real WTF, and it includes as usual our favorites : management and HR .

If I had to manage some of the socially inept but technically excellent members of the dev community, I would not hesitate one second, yes it may cost a person full time just to balance out the social ineptitude, but who cares ?

QJo · 2011-12-07 Reply Admin

L.:
QJo:
ThomasX:
Maybe we're just naturally polite in Britain, but the *slightest sniff* of political, social or moral dissatisfaction with your last place of employment at the job interview is likely to lose you the job. Also, think of it like this: HR personnel talk to each other. Wait till you've *actually landed* the next job till you start telling campfire tales round the proverbial water cooler.

This is just a sign of a rotting culture. That incompetent gatekeepers of HR just can't seem to deal with reality. They probably "think" because someone was unsatisfied with a job therefore he will be unsatisfied with every job. Stereotypical thinking at its best. Some people are so overly sensitive that they seem to be hurt by a simple fact. Problems are "solved" by sweeping them under the rug because "We are too weak-spined to deal with them." It's all about "saving face".

It's not a matter of weakness or ignoring problems. It's purely a matter of wanting to employ someone with sufficiently good social skills to be able to remain polite and professional in situations where a lesser person would let his ego take over and cause embarrassment. I've seen what happens when an engineer (worthy and clever though he was in his chosen field) "throw a wobbly" (at a substandard piece of code he was supposed to maintain, or something) to such a degree that his string of screamed expletives were heard in the conference room where a group of potential customers for a lucrative contract were being briefed. For better or worse, those customers became uncomfortable and embarrassed (not to mention the poor engineer who was doing the presentation) to the extent that the customers' experience of our company was soured. So be damned to the icy purity of truth and goodness - if there's a hint on the horizon that an engineer hasn't got the emotional maturity and self-control to comport himself in a professional manner, I most definitely want to hear about it. *No* egotistical little cry-babies are going to work anywhere near me, if I have any control over it.
If indeed you do have a genuine grievance with a company you are leaving for another, then: a) Express your concerns in your exit interview b) Share your reasons for believing you are hard done by with your manager, in a polite and non-confrontational manner c) Once you have landed your next job, bring your experience at the previous one into the public domain by suggesting where certain potential (or actual) policies at your new company may have possible shortfalls.

Anything else is pointless, and is also damaging to both yourself and the software industry as a whole. The "general public" have already got an image of us as a selfish bunch of overpaid prima-donnas who act like a bunch of child supermodels as it is. Don't go compounding the problem.

Your argument does not hold once you separate those who do the work from those who sell it.

There is NO valid reason to have devs in the same place as phone-call-addicted project managers or sales people.

That's where your issue came from, and most companies simply solve that by not having the smart-but-annoying guys on another floor.

It's not like you can be that picky to get only smart-and-socially-brilliant people, and I don't believe any company should avoid smart-but-annoying types . They're often a good source of value for a reasonable price.

Smaller companies are frequently limited as to space.

Given the choice, assuming there is one, between the two types you mention, most companies will go for the former. Therefore it behooves you to learn social skills.

2011-12-07 Reply Admin

MeanDean:
After reading TDWTF for two years, I have concluded that the biggest problem in the IT industry is a lack of workplace violence. Maybe it's my own blue-collar work history, but many problems would be solved by putting on masks and kicking the shit out of someone --- in this case, Stephen --- in a dark area of the parking lot after hours. What the hell, boot-stomp both hands too... It'll keep him out of trouble for about six weeks.

Hey MeanDean, how would you like to work at our place as an outside "consultant"? wink wink

2011-12-07 Reply Admin

Exit interview? Last two I "had" were "sorry (they weren't), we're downsizing so we've got to let you go". The last-in first-out rule was in full force as was the "sack them before a year is up or you have to pay redundancy". So they did it on the last day before a year's employment in a 5 minute "fuck off" one-sided chat.

The only time you get an exit interview is when you quit, because then you control the timescale, not them.

QJo · 2011-12-07 Reply Admin

MrBester:
Exit interview? Last two I "had" were "sorry (they weren't), we're downsizing so we've got to let you go". The last-in first-out rule was in full force as was the "sack them before a year is up or you have to pay redundancy". So they did it on the last day before a year's employment in a 5 minute "fuck off" one-sided chat.
The only time you get an exit interview is when you quit, because then you control the timescale, not them.

Well, quite.

But then the parameters of this argument were the situation where the choice is between:

a) walk out without giving notice and sending a rude email to your former boss, or: b) work your notice, leave politely and take away the lessons learned.

Clearly the situation where you are dismissed is a whole different ball-game ... but I would still counsel politeness wherever possible. "Not surprised he got fired, he's a rude man" doesn't pay for many pizzas.

2011-12-07 Reply Admin

Followed by a law suit. If an HR dept actually forwarded an old email of mine to another employer, I would feel it my duty to send copies of internal emails to the WSJ.

Captcha: Paratus. What's left after the ap has been committed.

2011-12-07 Reply Admin

oheso:
My Name Is Missing:
Same place where we all got a memo about saving the company money by reusing paperclips. At a defense contractor no less...

Have you seen the cost of milspec paperclips?

As someone working in defense (gov employee, not contractor), I'll just pass along that milspec hasn't been used for around 15 years, it's all NAS/ASME/ASTM or other industry-produced standards now. Not that it makes much of a difference. We've still got a storeroom full of MS fasteners, but that's all residual stock and all new designs don't use it. Of course this is from an engineering perspective - those office types might very well be 20 years behind, considering they still make us fill out paper timesheets. Even the contractors sitting next to me fill out their time cards online.

boog · 2011-12-07 Reply Admin

Bummer:
Sutherlands:
boog:
When I'm ready to "commit" my changes to StephanSVN, I'd just request the latest copy of the file,
Stephan's system was a black hole. Code went in, but didn't ever come back out.
boog:
Besides, when his solution doesn't work, I've still got my solution in my local SVN, so I can just merge it back in.
Stephan's system was a black hole. Code went in, but didn't ever come back out.
Why are so many folks out here trying to show how smart they are by claiming that the WTF is NotReallyTF

Who was claiming the WTF is NotReallyTF?

golddog · 2011-12-07 Reply Admin

PedanticCurmudgeon:
s73v3r:
C-Octothorpe:
Fight fire with fire.
He's a douchebag to you, you be a douchebag right back. And after he fires you and has your ass removed from the premises, you would have shown him the error of his ways.

Wait, what?

Well, there is the immediate loss of a developer on a project. That surely can't be pain free.
That depends on the developer. I had a co-worker once who actually created more work than he did.

I once sat in a status meeting with two PMs and a developer who was working on changes to a system I was familiar with. At one point, this guy said, "I didn't know what that code was doing, so I took it out." (as opposed to asking first, or doing any analysis.

Yes, this guy was as incompetent as they come. Without fail, anything he touched would have bugs which needed to be addressed.

Needless to say, the two PMs and I extended the meeting a bit to discuss this. The only time in my long career where I've actively campaigned for getting rid of a particular person.

Just a couple of weeks later, he put in his notice, saying he was moving to Atlanta. To this day, I'm still not sure if he saw the writing on the wall, or that was totally coincidental.

Nagesh · 2011-12-07 Reply Admin

TheRider:
Nagesh:
Overtime is very much paid in all billing projects.
Yes, but to your employer, not necessarily to you.

That is fact, but there is also trickel down effect. So I get some project bonus for not abandon ship mid-way, every year I complete in it.

2011-12-07 Reply Admin

Because we develop in the real world, and projects evolve, rather than the whole thing being planned from the start.

Stephen is probably the original developer of the legacy system. At least he has source control. He's the "coding champion" and it's only successful projects that are still going, something to bear in mind for all "legacy app" situations.

I guess as is often the case, he wants job security, although from a business perspective, there is always the danger of a new developer not fully understanding everything.

In a perfect world, there are no egos involved in software development but we work in the real world where successful software was written by people who want to feel they are now going to be secure in what they have done.

The Source of Control

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