• (cs) in reply to Nagesh
    Nagesh(fake):
    Matt Westwood:
    Nagesh(fake):
    Tangoman:
    What's he complaining about? 40h weeks??

    So the management system in place was inefficient - welcome to the real world!

    I once worked at a place where you had to decide what changes were needed, email those to the company owner who made the changes who would make the changes in the obscure language he used and then run the program through a custom-built translator which produced the most evil VB you've ever seen. We then had to compare the output VB with the original to see if the changes we'd planned had come out right.

    Quite often the company owner would decide that the changes you'd requested weren't quite correct and put in place something different....

    Now that set-up was a bitch - simply having a crap source-control.... nothing to see here, move along please...

    How is one collecting overtime pay to feeding family when work only 40 hours?

    Got news for you, sunshine:

    http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2011/12/bill-would-end-overtime-pay-requirement-for-many-more-it-workers.ars

    NOBODY gets paid overtime any more.

    US law is not being applied in Hyderabad.

    I make request that if you want keep posting as Nagesh, at leest fix fake front or back of name.

    Thanks, The Real Nagesh

  • (cs) in reply to Nagesh
    Nagesh:
    I make request that if you want keep posting as Nagesh, at leest fix fake front or back of name.

    Thanks, The Real Nagesh

    I never thought I'd see the day that one fake Indian is telling another fake Indian to be more fake than he is...

    You were either trying to be ironic or you're as dumb as I initially thought you were.

  • AT (unregistered) in reply to neminem
    neminem:
    Nope. Not at all. More like a haphazard sort of internal college IT job (not even a public college, so you can't blame the government for it at all

    Except that you CAN blame government for it because the government massively subsidizes all of higher ed, including private colleges.

  • Herr Otto Flick (unregistered)

    At my current $JOB, the day I started I was told by head HR bod that if I didn't opt out of the European Working Week Directive, thereby allowing me to work for the company for >48 hours per week, then I would have to account for my time in 15 minute intervals.

    After I signed that, I was told that instead I had to account for my time in 1 hr intervals, and I must allocate that work either against 'R&D' or 'Maintenance', and everything must add up to 37.5. R&D work qualifies for tax breaks in the UK, but what we are doing is not R&D (unless you would describe a web page as R&D), so I put my foot down here and insisted I would not lie. Now, the chief developer fills in that section, and we don't have to lie.

  • LetMeFinclOut (unregistered) in reply to QJo
    QJo:
    The "general public" have already got an image of us as a selfish bunch of overpaid prima-donnas who act like a bunch of child supermodels as it is. Don't go compounding the problem.

    I believe you're confusing "engineer" with "consultant".

  • A Gould (unregistered) in reply to Seriously forget StarWars HR
    Seriously forget StarWars HR:
    In case anyone actually feels that way, consider someone called in to HR after two days on the job. HR says "We received a copy of the e-mail you sent to all the employees at your last job on your last day. We found it extremely unprofessional. We cannot trust someone capable of doing that. Security is outside and will escort you off the premises." That person had moved several hundred miles for the new job.

    While I certainly wouldn't advocate sending the email in the first place (face-to-face is far more satisfying and deniable), in that situation I'd deny, deny, deny. "I'm sure I didn't send that email. In fact I just heard from them last week, fishing about a possible return. I'm very disappointed that my previous employer would take such unethical and possibly illegal actions. Thank you for bringing this to my attention - I'll need a copy of the correspondance for my attorney, by the way."

    (Actually following up on any of this is optional.)

    Unless you live in one of those regressive "at will" jurisdictions, your New Employer will need more than just a random (easily forged) email to prove cause. And the ones that are willing to were probably going to screw you over any minute now anyway. And in the US (and companies owned by Americans), any HR person dumb enough to do this will duck and cover at the first sign of trouble anyway.

    But first, don't blast people in email. Email lives forever. Do it in person - you can always deny/disavow it later.

  • (cs) in reply to ObiWayneKenobi
    ObiWayneKenobi:
    ..snip...

    There is nothing wrong with burning a bridge that should never have been erected in the first place.

    Years ago, Steve, another team's manager brought me a resume to review because he knew I had worked at the same company at the same time as the candidate. I was in QA, the candidate was a developer. I told the manager, "Well back then, he said he had no need for a QA department, as he never had bugs in his code. He may have learned since then that all developers have bugs in their code." Steve knew what to ask in the phone screen, and the developer never even made it in for a interview, nor did he know why. The moral of the story is never burn a bridge, unless your sure your lottery payout will cover your income for life.

  • AC (unregistered) in reply to Seriously forget StarWars HR
    Seriously forget StarWars HR:
    Justice:
    ObiWayneKenobi:
    In situations like this, the correct answer is always to quit immediately - no notice, no two weeks, just immediate I quit. If you're feeling particularly vengeful send a scathing email

    There's no harm in extending a little professional courtesy,

    I think ObiWayneKenobi is trolling.

    In case anyone actually feels that way, consider someone called in to HR after two days on the job. HR says "We received a copy of the e-mail you sent to all the employees at your last job on your last day. We found it extremely unprofessional. We cannot trust someone capable of doing that. Security is outside and will escort you off the premises." That person had moved several hundred miles for the new job.

    It's not so much about not burning a bridge that should not have been built, it's about the burning bridge falling into the replacement bridge and the resulting wreckage stopping you from building a new bridge anywhere else in the whole state . . .

    They should have sued the original company for copyright infringement for distributing their copyrighted email. $250,000 an incident.

  • AnonCoder (unregistered) in reply to AC

    Thankfully in the US, you can sue the previous employer for bad mouthing you.

  • Frank (unregistered) in reply to MarkJ

    Employment is almost always at will.

    The part of it that says the employer can fire you at any time, for any (non illegal) reason or no reason, with no notice is usually what is mentioned.

    The flip side is you can legal quit at any time, for any reason or no reason, with no notice.

    Minimum notice legally is ZERO. 2 weeks is usually suggested as a courtesy. There are times when one might choose not to extend such a courtesy.

    A lot of times, people in a bad job find another and quit immediately to go to the new job.

  • TXWay (unregistered) in reply to Frank

    it's called "the right to work", in us, some states are some ain't.

  • (cs) in reply to AnonCoder
    AnonCoder:
    Thankfully in the US, you can sue the previous employer for bad mouthing you.

    Only if what they say is untrue. Otherwise you're fucked as a pickle.

  • Nagesh (unregistered) in reply to Frank
    Frank:
    A lot of times, people in a bad job find another and quit immediately to go to the new job.
    Many employers are being wiling to consider forign cheeper option at this point.
  • (cs) in reply to Nagesh
    Nagesh(fake):
    Frank:
    A lot of times, people in a bad job find another and quit immediately to go to the new job.
    Many employers are being wiling to consider forign cheeper option at this point.

    That is bad. Cheaper will not be good as expensive. We charge lot of money for doing project. You should come to first rate company, not work in tiny office in small company. Send me your resume.

  • VeryBestDeveloperNumber1 (unregistered) in reply to Frank
    Frank:
    Employment is almost always at will.

    The part of it that says the employer can fire you at any time, for any (non illegal) reason or no reason, with no notice is usually what is mentioned.

    The flip side is you can legal quit at any time, for any reason or no reason, with no notice.

    Minimum notice legally is ZERO. 2 weeks is usually suggested as a courtesy. There are times when one might choose not to extend such a courtesy.

    A lot of times, people in a bad job find another and quit immediately to go to the new job.

    I've seen lawyers successfully argue that there is an implied contract of reasonable notice, unless there is obvious gross misconduct on either side. This obviously only applies to certain jobs, but engineering is typically one of them. It works both ways, which is why you see "Wages in Lieu of Notice" when someone is laid off immediately.

    Regardless, professional courtesy dictates that two weeks is appropriate, even when working a bad job, as long as no illegal shenanigans are going on. It takes at least that long to find other work anyway, so you might as well get paid in the mean time.

  • Nagesh (unregistered) in reply to Nagesh
    Nagesh:
    Nagesh(fake):
    Frank:
    A lot of times, people in a bad job find another and quit immediately to go to the new job.
    Many employers are being wiling to consider forign cheeper option at this point.

    That is bad. Cheaper will not be good as expensive. We charge lot of money for doing project. You should come to first rate company, not work in tiny office in small company. Send me your resume.

    u r alredy having my bios, haker schoolboy! Anyhow, school is being relesed, so I wil be thinking not to seing you for multipal weeks.

  • Jack (unregistered)

    Day 1 after hearing about the "Lack of" Source Control I would have requested to have an open discussion with mgmt about it.

    If it wasn't going to be opened up for multiple developers to push AND pull changes - I would hand in my notice on the spot.

    Although the 40 hour work week is another cluster [email protected]#$ I would never have stayed long enough to know.

  • Peter (unregistered) in reply to ObiWayneKenobi
    ObiWayneKenobi:
    I really wonder how HR people can live with themselves, since most of them seem totally drunk on the corporate kool-aid and think the company is divine and can do no wrong.
    HR exists to protect the company from employees.

    One book you can read that explains it quite well is Corporate Confidential.

  • Peter (unregistered) in reply to Bummer
    Bummer:
    Sutherlands:
    boog:
    When I'm ready to "commit" my changes to StephanSVN, I'd just request the latest copy of the file,
    Stephan's system was a black hole. Code went in, but didn't ever come back out.
    boog:
    Besides, when his solution doesn't work, I've still got my solution in my local SVN, so I can just merge it back in.
    Stephan's system was a black hole. Code went in, but didn't ever come back out.

    Why are so many folks out here trying to show how smart they are by claiming that the WTF is NotReallyTF

    Look, as developers, our job is to fix things. We see a broken system and we try to fix the bugs in it. It is just our nature. Some people are experienced enough (translation: cynical and bitter like week old coffee spilled into an ashtray) to know that there are just some things in the world that cannot be fixed. A proper cynical old bastud would grab some popcorn, lean back and say "let me know how that works out for you." Because a "I told ya so" is a dish best served cold.

    And to add just enough irony to this post, I refer you to a blog post titled The Right Man And The Fear Of Losing Face. I am convinced that many of our problems in IT are a result of the sociopaths who must be "RIGHT" no matter how many dead corpses (of people, companies or products) they have to backstab and crawl over.

    Let me remind you of four things:

    1. Popcorn is wonderful when cooked right.
      1.41421 Sometimes burning it is the right thing to do.
    2. Wally is my hero.
      2.71828 Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.
    3. Peter is right, and don't you forget it. 3.14159 I really do like pie.
    4. I told ya so.
  • Rbroken (unregistered) in reply to Earp
    Earp:
    Only if you work in some country without workers rights. Where I live, once your contract is signed, they would have a very hard job firing you for stuff you had done, PRIOR to your employment.

    Working in a country where it would be acceptable to be fired, after you were hired, for something you had done prior to your employment, is the real WTF.

    So if I were to secretly murder your employee, then convince you to hire me as their replacement, you would not be able to fire me if I slipped up and got arrested? What if I was convicted but managed (read: bribed the judge) to get time served plus probation?

    So where do you live again?

  • Fligby (unregistered) in reply to geoffrey
    geoffrey:
    Common Sense:
    This post, like so many on this site, reads like it came from an underachiever who is upset that they have not been handed the promotion he believes he deserves. If "Steven" and co were so incompetent, why were they headhunted by another company? Why were they kept on in a consultant role? Why was the OP not offered the job, if he was such an expert in software development and delivery?

    There is no context as to why management decided to disallow carte-blanche access to the source code, but there are several perfectly legitimate business reasons for code to be audited by a trusted, proven programmer.

    Judging by the tone of the original post, in this case this safety net may well have been the difference between product delivery as close as possible to on time and within budget, vs a PR disaster. The only "WTF" I can see here is the spoilt-kid attitude of the OP, presuming the story is true and not just the tantrum of an ungrateful man-child "leet coder". Grow up.

    This is a great point. Cream rises to the top in an organization. The most senior developers on staff get to their stations for a reason -- they are the best at what they do. New hires would do well to follow their lead. Two ears, one mouth.

    "Cream Rises to the top" - does that mean the CEO is the best developer in the company?

  • Jim (unregistered) in reply to QJo
    QJo:
    Tangoman:
    QJo:
    The "general public" have already got an image of us as a selfish bunch of overpaid prima-donnas who act like a bunch of child supermodels as it is.

    But with more donuts...

    +1 FTW

    And pizza.

    Addendum (2011-12-07 06:39):

    Tangoman:
    QJo:
    The "general public" have already got an image of us as a selfish bunch of overpaid prima-donnas who act like a bunch of child supermodels as it is.

    But with more donuts...

    +1 FTW

    And pizza.

    You can buy a lot of goodwill amongst your staff by sending out on occasion (particularly when they're contributing far beyond the call of duty) for lashings of pizza. Caveat: You also need to make sure they are also compensated either with appropriate remuneration or with time off in lieu. But a little appreciation and good-vibes goes a very long way.

    I recently red an article (on yahoo, I think, so it must be true) about how to keep staff happy without giving them more money. Lunches was one of the (relatively low cost) ideas to boost morale and make staff feel valued.
  • Derwent (unregistered) in reply to L.
    L.:
    TheJonB:
    OneOfTheFew:
    Why didn't Miguel just quit? That's what I would have done.
    You may have missed the broader macroeconomic situation.

    Perhaps try watch the news instead of the cartoons?

    The broader macroeconomic situation is for fags .

    I don't give a shit that it's recession or whatever.

    I rock at what I do and I can demonstrate it, I don't need to be afraid because half a million useless fools want the same job as I do.

    The worse the situation, the bigger the difference between the good and the bad.

    Always been like that, always will be.

    And for the most ridiculous proof ever : in WoW,there is almost no way to see the difference between a good healer and bad healer on overstuffed routine content.

    Now go for new content, without overstuff and lots of wipes... there you can see who's good and who just plain sucks.

    Same for work : when there's no crisis, companies spend left and right and don't quite care what they get for it.

    Then recession hits and hey .. maybe we should get something for what we pay ? maybe we should outsource ? maybe we should consider people who deliver rather than partners with with a business volume over 35mil a year ?

    And that's where the good will shine and the bad will go back to cleaning up the streets. Amen !

    Exactly. It's awesome that we don't live in a nepotistic world....

    In reality, the reason (some) companies don't survive financial issues is that when they cut staff they cut their own throats by getting rid of the best people (who often are their most expensive - for good reason). I suspect part of this is internal politics, and part of this is that good IT people often have an attitude that grates at managers - even when a manager can see that this person is the most able on the team, an opportunity to get rid of that Dev who's always causing trouble by explaining "the real way Software Engineering should be done", and who (much to the ire of the PM) is earning more money than him is too good to resist. They are particularly lucky in these situations if such people are already being recognised with a higher than average salary, because they come up with things like "Look at the cost of this dude to do the same job as some other schleper". No-one ever questions WHY that person is costing so much (usually they getpaid about 1.2x what the others are, and is doing about 5 times the work, and is often the only one to have expertise in some aspect of the project).

    See you on the streets, brother!

  • (cs) in reply to Jim
    Jim:
    Lunches was one of the (relatively low cost) ideas to boost morale and make staff feel valued.
    Indeed. We get free lunch every day, and it is awesome. (Except fish day. Fish day is also known as "everybody goes out to lunch" day.)
  • Frink (unregistered) in reply to LetMeFinclOut
    LetMeFinclOut:
    QJo:
    The "general public" have already got an image of us as a selfish bunch of overpaid prima-donnas who act like a bunch of child supermodels as it is. Don't go compounding the problem.

    I believe you're confusing "engineer" with "consultant".

    Perhaps we know it better describes consultants, but his p[oint was about public perception - and I think the public cannot distinguish betwixt them

  • Mr Greedy (unregistered) in reply to VeryBestDeveloperNumber1
    VeryBestDeveloperNumber1:
    Frank:
    Employment is almost always at will.

    The part of it that says the employer can fire you at any time, for any (non illegal) reason or no reason, with no notice is usually what is mentioned.

    The flip side is you can legal quit at any time, for any reason or no reason, with no notice.

    Minimum notice legally is ZERO. 2 weeks is usually suggested as a courtesy. There are times when one might choose not to extend such a courtesy.

    A lot of times, people in a bad job find another and quit immediately to go to the new job.

    I've seen lawyers successfully argue that there is an implied contract of reasonable notice, unless there is obvious gross misconduct on either side. This obviously only applies to certain jobs, but engineering is typically one of them. It works both ways, which is why you see "Wages in Lieu of Notice" when someone is laid off immediately.

    Regardless, professional courtesy dictates that two weeks is appropriate, even when working a bad job, as long as no illegal shenanigans are going on. It takes at least that long to find other work anyway, so you might as well get paid in the mean time.

    And giving notice has the added benefit of allowing your current employe to give a counter-offer and show how much they really love you...

  • (cs) in reply to Fligby
    Fligby:
    geoffrey:
    Common Sense:
    This post, like so many on this site, reads like it came from an underachiever who is upset that they have not been handed the promotion he believes he deserves. If "Steven" and co were so incompetent, why were they headhunted by another company? Why were they kept on in a consultant role? Why was the OP not offered the job, if he was such an expert in software development and delivery?

    There is no context as to why management decided to disallow carte-blanche access to the source code, but there are several perfectly legitimate business reasons for code to be audited by a trusted, proven programmer.

    Judging by the tone of the original post, in this case this safety net may well have been the difference between product delivery as close as possible to on time and within budget, vs a PR disaster. The only "WTF" I can see here is the spoilt-kid attitude of the OP, presuming the story is true and not just the tantrum of an ungrateful man-child "leet coder". Grow up.

    This is a great point. Cream rises to the top in an organization. The most senior developers on staff get to their stations for a reason -- they are the best at what they do. New hires would do well to follow their lead. Two ears, one mouth.

    "Cream Rises to the top" - does that mean the CEO is the best developer in the company?

    Hate to disillusion you cynical bastards, but often: yes. Particularly if they were the ones who built the company up from nothing. (Sometimes it turns into Microsoft, of course, in which case bets are off.)

    Dunno about you, though, but both the CEO and CTO of where I work are a pair of fucking diamonds and no mistake. Boils down to: some bosses you're happy to put yourself out for and some you wouldn't piss on if they were on fire. Now go and find your dream job. I've got mine.

  • Edgar (unregistered) in reply to Matt Westwood
    Matt Westwood:
    Fligby:
    geoffrey:
    Common Sense:
    This post, like so many on this site, reads like it came from an underachiever who is upset that they have not been handed the promotion he believes he deserves. If "Steven" and co were so incompetent, why were they headhunted by another company? Why were they kept on in a consultant role? Why was the OP not offered the job, if he was such an expert in software development and delivery?

    There is no context as to why management decided to disallow carte-blanche access to the source code, but there are several perfectly legitimate business reasons for code to be audited by a trusted, proven programmer.

    Judging by the tone of the original post, in this case this safety net may well have been the difference between product delivery as close as possible to on time and within budget, vs a PR disaster. The only "WTF" I can see here is the spoilt-kid attitude of the OP, presuming the story is true and not just the tantrum of an ungrateful man-child "leet coder". Grow up.

    This is a great point. Cream rises to the top in an organization. The most senior developers on staff get to their stations for a reason -- they are the best at what they do. New hires would do well to follow their lead. Two ears, one mouth.

    "Cream Rises to the top" - does that mean the CEO is the best developer in the company?

    Hate to disillusion you cynical bastards, but often: yes. Particularly if they were the ones who built the company up from nothing. (Sometimes it turns into Microsoft, of course, in which case bets are off.)

    Dunno about you, though, but both the CEO and CTO of where I work are a pair of fucking diamonds and no mistake. Boils down to: some bosses you're happy to put yourself out for and some you wouldn't piss on if they were on fire. Now go and find your dream job. I've got mine.

    Me work for a CIO (or CIKO (not sure if it's pronounced sicko or psycho) or CTO or something) who I don't think has ever held a technical role in his life. In fact, I think this is true of most of the layers above me. It seems (here in 'Straya at least) that Technical people are reluctant to become managers (because they thrive on the technical stuff) and the only technical people who move into management are the ones who didn't really understand what they were doing anyways...

    I'll agree on the start-ups bit, but....

  • Willie (unregistered) in reply to Matt Westwood
    Matt Westwood:
    Fligby:
    geoffrey:
    Common Sense:
    This post, like so many on this site, reads like it came from an underachiever who is upset that they have not been handed the promotion he believes he deserves. If "Steven" and co were so incompetent, why were they headhunted by another company? Why were they kept on in a consultant role? Why was the OP not offered the job, if he was such an expert in software development and delivery?

    There is no context as to why management decided to disallow carte-blanche access to the source code, but there are several perfectly legitimate business reasons for code to be audited by a trusted, proven programmer.

    Judging by the tone of the original post, in this case this safety net may well have been the difference between product delivery as close as possible to on time and within budget, vs a PR disaster. The only "WTF" I can see here is the spoilt-kid attitude of the OP, presuming the story is true and not just the tantrum of an ungrateful man-child "leet coder". Grow up.

    This is a great point. Cream rises to the top in an organization. The most senior developers on staff get to their stations for a reason -- they are the best at what they do. New hires would do well to follow their lead. Two ears, one mouth.

    "Cream Rises to the top" - does that mean the CEO is the best developer in the company?

    Hate to disillusion you cynical bastards, but often: yes. Particularly if they were the ones who built the company up from nothing. (Sometimes it turns into Microsoft, of course, in which case bets are off.)

    Dunno about you, though, but both the CEO and CTO of where I work are a pair of fucking diamonds and no mistake. Boils down to: some bosses you're happy to put yourself out for and some you wouldn't piss on if they were on fire. Now go and find your dream job. I've got mine.

    That wouldn't be difficult compared to your good self....

  • (cs) in reply to Matt Westwood
    Matt Westwood:
    Hate to disillusion you cynical bastards, but often: yes. Particularly if they were the ones who built the company up from nothing. (Sometimes it turns into Microsoft, of course, in which case bets are off.)

    Dunno about you, though, but both the CEO and CTO of where I work are a pair of fucking diamonds and no mistake. Boils down to: some bosses you're happy to put yourself out for and some you wouldn't piss on if they were on fire. Now go and find your dream job. I've got mine.

    In most cases if the CEO wrote the original version of the software, he's a clueless yokel who did it in Access or Foxpro or some other obsolete kiddie technology, turned on the con artist skills to sell/market it as the greatest thing since sliced bread, and therefore thinks he's a "real developer" who just has to meddle in everything now and forevermore. Or, sometimes, he actually was a good developer but forgot everything relevant in the past 10+ years and has no clue how software is done today as opposed to back in the dark ages when he cut his teeth. Rarest of the rare is the developer-turned-entrepreneur who actually keeps up to date and promotes a good software development environment with top of the line tools, stays abreast of new technology and knows that good development takes time.

  • jverd (unregistered) in reply to Common Sense
    Common Sense:
    This post, like so many on this site, reads like it came from an underachiever who is upset that they have not been handed the promotion he believes he deserves. If "Steven" and co were so incompetent, why were they headhunted by another company? Why were they kept on in a consultant role? Why was the OP not offered the job, if he was such an expert in software development and delivery?

    Right. Because nobody incompetent is ever hired on the erroneous belief that he is valuable.

    Expecting a competent manager and expecting a reasonable work model, such as all developers committing directly to RCS, is far from being an "underachiever."

  • geoffrey (unregistered) in reply to Fligby
    Fligby:
    geoffrey:
    Common Sense:
    This post, like so many on this site, reads like it came from an underachiever who is upset that they have not been handed the promotion he believes he deserves. If "Steven" and co were so incompetent, why were they headhunted by another company? Why were they kept on in a consultant role? Why was the OP not offered the job, if he was such an expert in software development and delivery?

    There is no context as to why management decided to disallow carte-blanche access to the source code, but there are several perfectly legitimate business reasons for code to be audited by a trusted, proven programmer.

    Judging by the tone of the original post, in this case this safety net may well have been the difference between product delivery as close as possible to on time and within budget, vs a PR disaster. The only "WTF" I can see here is the spoilt-kid attitude of the OP, presuming the story is true and not just the tantrum of an ungrateful man-child "leet coder". Grow up.

    This is a great point. Cream rises to the top in an organization. The most senior developers on staff get to their stations for a reason -- they are the best at what they do. New hires would do well to follow their lead. Two ears, one mouth.

    "Cream Rises to the top" - does that mean the CEO is the best developer in the company?

    Is your view so myopic that development is the only substantive function in the company? A CEO may or may not be a better developer than his charges. But he will always have better big picture view than they will. If the company has a policy that all source code goes through one person, you can bet it is with good reason. Trust in management, as they know and do what is best for the company.

  • Socio (unregistered) in reply to geoffrey
    geoffrey:
    Is your view so myopic that development is the only substantive function in the company? A CEO may or may not be a better developer than his charges. But he will always have better big picture view than they will. If the company has a policy that all source code goes through one person, you can bet it is with good reason. Trust in management, as they know and do what is best for the company.

    Trust management to do what is best for the company.

    Trust yourself to do what is best for you.

    Never confuse the goal of one for the goal of the other.

  • Name removed to protect the obvious (unregistered) in reply to My Name Is Missing
    Same place where we all got a memo about saving the company money by reusing paperclips. At a defense contractor no less.

    At my defence contractor, we had a secure photocopy department; you weren't allowed to simply make a copy yourself. All photocopiers were secured, and copies were submitted in pigeon holes with charge codes and etc., and the photocopy drones confirmed that you weren't trying to copy restricted material.

    Of course, if you were, you just removed the cover sheet that said "DO NOT COPY", and they would happily dupe it for you.

    One day, a co-worker submitted three sheets of paperclipped paper to be photocopied. The drones tossed the still-clipped sheets into the copier, which complained mightily. The drone wrote up a note saying that stapled and clipped papers would not be photocopied, and threw it in the output bin.

    My co-worker got it back, said "screw this", and threw it back in. The drone tossed it back in the photocopier, which not only complained again, but actually seized up. This required a service call, which meant getting a technician into the sooper seekret copy room, with all that entails.

    The aftermath was epic. The drone complained that the engineering staff was breaking regs by using paperclips. The engineers pointed out that the photocopy service would logically be expected to be able to deal with, well, making copies.

    Each team escalated to their managers, who searched DOD manuals looking for staple- and paperclip-removal standards. Not finding any (big shock), they promptly called an Executive Meeting to generate a corporate standard Work Instruction on paperclip remove. Creation of any WI required WHIMIS compliance checks, user training, etc. And that was only the beginning....

    That was in 1989. Twenty two years later, I still boggle at that.

  • jverd (unregistered) in reply to geoffrey
    geoffrey:
    Is your view so myopic that development is the only substantive function in the company? A CEO may or may not be a better developer than his charges. But he will always have better big picture view than they will. If the company has a policy that all source code goes through one person, you can bet it is with good reason. Trust in management, as they know and do what is best for the company.

    That troll is so awful it must have either been outsourced or come from the CEO's retarded nephew's even-more-retarded pet monkey.

  • Mr Person (unregistered)

    if Stephen was really named Linus Torvalds would people really be commenting on it?

  • geoffrey (unregistered) in reply to Socio
    Socio:
    geoffrey:
    Is your view so myopic that development is the only substantive function in the company? A CEO may or may not be a better developer than his charges. But he will always have better big picture view than they will. If the company has a policy that all source code goes through one person, you can bet it is with good reason. Trust in management, as they know and do what is best for the company.

    Trust management to do what is best for the company.

    Trust yourself to do what is best for you.

    Never confuse the goal of one for the goal of the other.

    Management expects employees to do what is best for the company. When that compact is severed, so is the relationship.

  • Fligby (unregistered) in reply to geoffrey
    geoffrey:
    Fligby:
    geoffrey:
    Common Sense:
    This post, like so many on this site, reads like it came from an underachiever who is upset that they have not been handed the promotion he believes he deserves. If "Steven" and co were so incompetent, why were they headhunted by another company? Why were they kept on in a consultant role? Why was the OP not offered the job, if he was such an expert in software development and delivery?

    There is no context as to why management decided to disallow carte-blanche access to the source code, but there are several perfectly legitimate business reasons for code to be audited by a trusted, proven programmer.

    Judging by the tone of the original post, in this case this safety net may well have been the difference between product delivery as close as possible to on time and within budget, vs a PR disaster. The only "WTF" I can see here is the spoilt-kid attitude of the OP, presuming the story is true and not just the tantrum of an ungrateful man-child "leet coder". Grow up.

    This is a great point. Cream rises to the top in an organization. The most senior developers on staff get to their stations for a reason -- they are the best at what they do. New hires would do well to follow their lead. Two ears, one mouth.

    "Cream Rises to the top" - does that mean the CEO is the best developer in the company?

    Is your view so myopic that development is the only substantive function in the company? A CEO may or may not be a better developer than his charges. But he will always have better big picture view than they will. If the company has a policy that all source code goes through one person, you can bet it is with good reason. Trust in management, as they know and do what is best for the company.

    Other than I didn't realise ti was you, TROLL!!

    The point was not whether or not management is best for the company, it was whether or not "Cream rises to the top"

  • geoffrey (unregistered) in reply to jverd
    jverd:
    geoffrey:
    Is your view so myopic that development is the only substantive function in the company? A CEO may or may not be a better developer than his charges. But he will always have better big picture view than they will. If the company has a policy that all source code goes through one person, you can bet it is with good reason. Trust in management, as they know and do what is best for the company.

    That troll is so awful it must have either been outsourced or come from the CEO's retarded nephew's even-more-retarded pet monkey.

    I'm having difficulty not taking umbrage to your insistence that I am some troll, and just letting it go. Just because I think your opinions are ill-formed does not make me think you are a "troll." I guess it is too much to ask for respectful discourse in this forum. I felt I was respecting others' opinions, too. If I am wrong, I sincerely apologize.

  • geoffrey (unregistered) in reply to Fligby
    Fligby:
    geoffrey:
    Fligby:
    geoffrey:
    Common Sense:
    This post, like so many on this site, reads like it came from an underachiever who is upset that they have not been handed the promotion he believes he deserves. If "Steven" and co were so incompetent, why were they headhunted by another company? Why were they kept on in a consultant role? Why was the OP not offered the job, if he was such an expert in software development and delivery?

    There is no context as to why management decided to disallow carte-blanche access to the source code, but there are several perfectly legitimate business reasons for code to be audited by a trusted, proven programmer.

    Judging by the tone of the original post, in this case this safety net may well have been the difference between product delivery as close as possible to on time and within budget, vs a PR disaster. The only "WTF" I can see here is the spoilt-kid attitude of the OP, presuming the story is true and not just the tantrum of an ungrateful man-child "leet coder". Grow up.

    This is a great point. Cream rises to the top in an organization. The most senior developers on staff get to their stations for a reason -- they are the best at what they do. New hires would do well to follow their lead. Two ears, one mouth.

    "Cream Rises to the top" - does that mean the CEO is the best developer in the company?

    Is your view so myopic that development is the only substantive function in the company? A CEO may or may not be a better developer than his charges. But he will always have better big picture view than they will. If the company has a policy that all source code goes through one person, you can bet it is with good reason. Trust in management, as they know and do what is best for the company.

    Other than I didn't realise ti was you, TROLL!!

    The point was not whether or not management is best for the company, it was whether or not "Cream rises to the top"

    Which it does. That is pretty well-established, I think.

  • John Muller (unregistered) in reply to geoffrey

    Scum rises to the top as well.

  • geoffrey (unregistered) in reply to John Muller
    John Muller:
    Scum rises to the top as well.

    To embrace and extend that metaphor, whether it's cream or scum is wholly dependent on what the organization starts with.

  • bobthecoder (unregistered) in reply to OneOfTheFew

    Or at the very least inform him of branches and user permissions.

  • John Hensley (unregistered) in reply to Common Sense
    Common Sense:
    This post, like so many on this site, reads like it came from an underachiever who is upset that they have not been handed the promotion he believes he deserves. If "Steven" and co were so incompetent, why were they headhunted by another company? Why were they kept on in a consultant role? Why was the OP not offered the job, if he was such an expert in software development and delivery?
    You are defending a dev lead for shutting the rest of his team out of source control. You are the problem. It's you.
  • geoffrey (unregistered) in reply to John Hensley
    John Hensley:
    Common Sense:
    This post, like so many on this site, reads like it came from an underachiever who is upset that they have not been handed the promotion he believes he deserves. If "Steven" and co were so incompetent, why were they headhunted by another company? Why were they kept on in a consultant role? Why was the OP not offered the job, if he was such an expert in software development and delivery?
    You are defending a dev lead for shutting the rest of his team out of source control. You are the problem. It's you.

    There are plenty of ways to skin a cat. Just because you don't care for a particular source control philosophy doesn't mean it's wrong. If the lead thinks only he should have access to source control, that's his prerogative. That's why he's the lead.

  • jverd (unregistered) in reply to geoffrey
    geoffrey:
    jverd:
    geoffrey:
    Is your view so myopic that development is the only substantive function in the company? A CEO may or may not be a better developer than his charges. But he will always have better big picture view than they will. If the company has a policy that all source code goes through one person, you can bet it is with good reason. Trust in management, as they know and do what is best for the company.

    That troll is so awful it must have either been outsourced or come from the CEO's retarded nephew's even-more-retarded pet monkey.

    I'm having difficulty not taking umbrage to your insistence that I am some troll, and just letting it go.

    Okay, then I guess I was mistaken in giving you the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps you actually are that stupid or insane. No reasonable person would think that there "must be" a good reason for that policy, or that management always "knows and does what's best for the company."

    My apologies for attributing to malice that which is apparently better explained by abject stupidity.

    Just because I think your opinions are ill-formed does not make me think you are a "troll." I guess it is too much to ask for respectful discourse in this forum. I felt I was respecting others' opinions, too. If I am wrong, I sincerely apologize.

    SNORT

    Right.

  • jverd (unregistered) in reply to geoffrey
    geoffrey:
    If the lead thinks only he should have access to source control, that's his prerogative. That's why he's the lead.

    By that logic, if he thinks that all developers should use their noses to type, and must work in the dark, that's his prerogative too, and that's a perfectly valid way to do business.

    (Note to self: Stop feeding trolls. Eventually. When it becomes less amusing.)

  • John Hensley (unregistered) in reply to geoffrey
    geoffrey:
    If the lead thinks only he should have access to source control, that's his prerogative. That's why he's the lead.
    Read carefully:
    If he didn't like the code, the threw the file away. Sometimes, he might even tell the developer that he had done so.Worse, Stephan's system was a black hole. Code went in, but didn't ever come back out.
    This is what you are defending: a dev lead who expects the devs to work without even read access to the master source code, then quietly sabotages them. You are the problem.
  • (cs) in reply to ObiWayneKenobi
    ObiWayneKenobi:
    Matt Westwood:
    Hate to disillusion you cynical bastards, but often: yes. Particularly if they were the ones who built the company up from nothing. (Sometimes it turns into Microsoft, of course, in which case bets are off.)

    Dunno about you, though, but both the CEO and CTO of where I work are a pair of fucking diamonds and no mistake. Boils down to: some bosses you're happy to put yourself out for and some you wouldn't piss on if they were on fire. Now go and find your dream job. I've got mine.

    In most cases if the CEO wrote the original version of the software, he's a clueless yokel who did it in Access or Foxpro or some other obsolete kiddie technology, turned on the con artist skills to sell/market it as the greatest thing since sliced bread, and therefore thinks he's a "real developer" who just has to meddle in everything now and forevermore. Or, sometimes, he actually was a good developer but forgot everything relevant in the past 10+ years and has no clue how software is done today as opposed to back in the dark ages when he cut his teeth. Rarest of the rare is the developer-turned-entrepreneur who actually keeps up to date and promotes a good software development environment with top of the line tools, stays abreast of new technology and knows that good development takes time.

    You've done the statistical analysis, having got all the relevant data from all the companies who have this data in the public domain? Or are you just, gasp, trolling?

  • (cs)

    Oh how predictable, mention women even tangentially anywhere in the news entry, and sexist jokes pour in.

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