• Joe (unregistered)

    Unfortunately for the rest of us, Mike's story is nothing new. In his case it was an external client so you have to be more careful. There are those of us who deal with internal clients. I'd be a lot less worried if that happened internally.

    When your clients are internal, there's nothing to gain from granting such a request. If this happened to me I would've written up a polite email stating the risks and asking the person whether he accepted them or not. If I was really afraid something bad would happen I'd also propose alternatives.

    If the customer signs off, then it's all on them. IT Project Management 101. That PMI certification pays off.

  • mentor (unregistered) in reply to gabba

    Seconded. "Sure I will do a rush job, but there's a reason things normally take longer than this, so you will have to accept a greater risk."

  • (cs) in reply to mentor

    Someone said to stop treating mike like the victim. I don't see why. The customer asked for the rush job and wanted it done by that day. Either way, Mike would have had the phone ringing all day no matter what he did. If he told them to give him more time to dedicate to testing, half the resturants would be calling to tell him that the customers are pestering because now they can't run the special. I would have told the customer that you don't agree to the 7000 cut because they asked for a custom prioritary rush job to save themselves the money. They cut a corner by even trying to hire Mike, and want him to pay for it ?

  • Joe (unregistered) in reply to pitchingchris
    pitchingchris:
    Someone said to stop treating mike like the victim. I don't see why. The customer asked for the rush job and wanted it done by that day. Either way, Mike would have had the phone ringing all day no matter what he did. If he told them to give him more time to dedicate to testing, half the resturants would be calling to tell him that the customers are pestering because now they can't run the special. I would have told the customer that you don't agree to the 7000 cut because they asked for a custom prioritary rush job to save themselves the money. They cut a corner by even trying to hire Mike, and want him to pay for it ?

    This is where "managing expectations" really comes into play. I'm not sure just how well Mike conveyed the threat, nor whether or not there was an agreement as to who would take the blame.

    Here at my office the management knows full well that if I don't get the timeline I propose, there will be hell to pay and it won't be me. Scope creep? Sure, how about adding another 6 months to this project? No? Ok, change request denied.

  • Quango (unregistered) in reply to taylonr

    I bet if he had more flare he wouldn't have had to give them the $7000 discount.

    He certainly got burned then :-) [flair not flare!]

    I'd say that getting the $7000 discount was a BIG mistake by the company. It punished their supplier for trying to help them out in a fix they had created (by poor planning).

    Next time it happens he's either going to say no outright, or ask for written indemnity from the consequences.

  • (cs) in reply to Manic Mailman

    Point #2 is inconsistent. Thousands in lost sales = thousands in free meals for customers = many, many happy customers. Most people I know would wait in line for 2 hours for a free meal at "Chochkies".

  • AC (unregistered) in reply to ounos
    ounos:
    Andrew:
    - past tense of LEAD is LED
    I seem to have red this somewhere else too.

    You're write, I've seen it somewhere too.

  • Timo (unregistered)

    The obvious WTF aside (not falling back to manual backup procedures - lack of those would be another WTF)... Am I the only one who thinks that the Amurrican sales tax system is kind of a WTF? Perhaps not to those who have been used to it, but here in Finland (and in at least most of the EU) the price of a good or service which is given to the customer (consumer, more properly) (the price, that is) has to include VAT. Therefore, if the registers fail, the clerk/waiter/whatever only has to add up whatever price is printed on the menu. The tax payable to the IRS-equivalent can be figured out later from the itemized receipts by the accounting department. Simpler, no?

  • (cs) in reply to AC
    AC:
    ounos:
    Andrew:
    - past tense of LEAD is LED
    I seem to have red this somewhere else too.

    You're write, I've seen it somewhere too.

    Your both wright! I red all that somewere to.

    -dZ.
  • (cs) in reply to Salami
    Salami:
    Point #2 is inconsistent. Thousands in lost sales = thousands in free meals for customers = many, many happy customers. Most people I know would wait in line for 2 hours for a free meal at "Chochkies".

    I interpreted the article as saying they lost a bunch of money due to the people who came in early and got the $.10 price. Then they lost more money when they had to shut down the restaurant and turn customers away. I may have interpreted it like that since it's EXACTLY what the story said.

  • (cs) in reply to AC
    AC:
    ounos:
    Andrew:
    - past tense of LEAD is LED
    I seem to have red this somewhere else too.

    Your write, I've scene it somewhere two.

    Fixed that for you.

  • Mr. V (unregistered) in reply to anon
    anon:
    Now Poland was a giant wtf, if I remember correctly I had THREE different tax rates (ie: each item had a drastically different tax rate) on a single order from a coffee shop. Apparently accountants have managed to legally and permanently solidify their continual employment.

    In Poland, however, the price always includes the VAT tax (as this is the tax you've seen), so it's not like accountants have to run the tills.

    You know, no funky percentage calculations to perform - just add the numbers and collect the damn money.

  • (cs) in reply to Timo
    Timo:
    Amurrican sales tax system is kind of a WTF?

    Well, what you describe is not a tax issue but a standards issue. The price you see at the gas pump has the tax already precalculated. In the resturant industry, it is usually not. However, this is not due to an improper tax regulation but due to other issues. For example, if you have a major chain resturant that has the same menu pretty much all over the US, they don't print separate prices on every menu. Some cities actually have a "Resturant" tax that it uses to fund special projects such as youth parks, etc. So accounting for all the state, local, and federal taxes would make for a specific menu by resturant. Besides, it gives them incentive to leave the tax off because it looks cheaper.

  • mobus (unregistered)

    the american sum-the-tax-later system is a WTF. I understand the idea is "to show people how much govt takes everytime you buy stuff", but that could be solved by:

    1. having the amount of tax printed on the product label or the price tag or wherever the price is being shown

    2. having the tax burden listed in the receipt (for each taxation class) - both in percent and in value.

    Germany does 1 and 2. And they will also print the price per kilogram/milliliter in every product. This allows you to compare prices between products of different packaging sizes.

  • rast (unregistered) in reply to Joe
    Joe:
    Bill Lumbergh:
    I doubt most people are aware the burden our tax system puts on commerce.

    Some of us are: [image]

    Cool, now we can burden poor people instead.

    (this is not meant as a defense of the current fucked up tax system)

  • Steve (unregistered)

    I'm not sure why they had to give away free food. I assume the menu prices were correct and so the customer was obligated for that price.

    The worst that should have happened is that the servers had to do some actual arithmetic instead of relying on the machines and maybe do some credit card invoices by hand.

    Most places have a manual credit card imprinter and even if they don't I've had credit card information "imprinted" by taking a "rubbing" of the credit card with a pencil.

    The worst that they should have experienced was a bit of a slowdown in processing the bills.

    The real WTF in my opinion is that the restaurants didn't seem to have a fallback procedure if the PoS system fails.

  • James Schend (unregistered) in reply to Timo
    Timo:
    The obvious WTF aside (not falling back to manual backup procedures - lack of those would be another WTF)... Am I the only one who thinks that the Amurrican sales tax system is kind of a WTF? Perhaps not to those who have been used to it, but here in Finland (and in at least most of the EU) the price of a good or service which is given to the customer (consumer, more properly) (the price, that is) has to include VAT. Therefore, if the registers fail, the clerk/waiter/whatever only has to add up whatever price is printed on the menu. The tax payable to the IRS-equivalent can be figured out later from the itemized receipts by the accounting department. Simpler, no?

    Europeans generally don't realize that the United States is a collection of States (or, to be really anal, 46 States, 4 Commonwealths, and an assortment of other entities), each of which mostly manages its own affair. The purpose of the Federal Government is to regular interstate trade (i.e. make sure goods and services can be traded between Oregon and Utah) and fund/operate the Army for defense of the nation.

    Unfortunately, to fulfill the first function, the Federal Government has the power to over-ride local laws. (i.e. if Oregon passes a law saying it's illegal to trade with Utah, the Federal law can over-ride it.) Once politicians realized this, the Federal Government ballooned in size, started interfering in issues that are clearly state issues (see: Federal marijuana laws vs. California marijuana laws, for a recent example.) I consider myself more a "Washingtonian" than a "United States Citizen." But then again, I'm in the west where the states are big. :)

    Anyway, as a result of this American philosophy, each state is free to tax its citizens in whatever way they feel is appropriate. Washington State has no state income tax, only a sales tax. California has both income and sales taxes. From what I understand, Alaska has neither, only property taxes.

    If that wasn't confusing enough, smaller entities can usually tack on taxes as well (depending on the state.) The tax rate in Snohomish County, Washington is different than the tax rate in King County, Washington. The tax rate in the City of Everett (in Snohomish County) is different than the tax rate in the rest of Snohomish County.

    Doing the math isn't as easy here as it is in Europe.

  • b0b g0ats3 (unregistered)

    OH GOD OH GOD UNNNNGH MY ERECTION RAN OUT OF SKIN

    YYYYYEEEEEAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Sigivald (unregistered) in reply to vt_mruhlin
    God forbid the employees should have to add up a total and calculate tax by hand.

    I see you've never been in a jurisdiction where the tax rules are complex (ie, many of them, especially back East).

    "Items A and B [and ones like them] are taxed at rate R. Item C [and ones like it] is taxed at rate S, unless it's after 5 PM, in which case it's S'.

    Liquor is taxed at rate R, unless the entire ticket is liquor, in which case it's taxed at rate R'.

    Places with a GST system apply rate Z to the sum of the above including other taxes, with the following exceptions...

    Special surcharge Q is applied if the ticket was made while live music was performing, otherwise not."

    And odds are nobody but the manager knows the rules or exceptions, if that.

    (Every one of those examples is based on a real tax rule in the restaurant industry somewhere in North America.)

  • (cs) in reply to Hatshepsut
    Hatshepsut:
    tezoatlipoca:
    Bill Lumbergh:
    vt_mruhlin:

    God forbid the employees should have to add up a total and calculate tax by hand.

    I don't know where you are located but tax computation can be complicated. We have federal, state and sometimes a combination city and county taxes.

    Yeah! here in Ontario we have crazy shit like two donuts being provincial sales tax exempt (being "meal under $4") but a dozen of them not exempt (being "full meal" or "groceries"). Given the intelligence of the counter staff who fill my order every day ("I said coffee black.. BLACK DAMNIT!") the less manual computation the better.

    In Australia donuts are tax-exempt because they qualify (however tenuously) as food, but the holes aren't because they are clearly non-food. The tax office consistently refuses to issue a standard ruling on the matter. Mayhem.

    I don't know why they would. The gap in the middle of a donut doesn't have any donut in it, and once you break apart the donut, the hole disappears. Surely one doesn't tax empty space, even in Australia?

    [No. No. No. The little fried mostly-spherical things are not donut "holes" because donuts aren't made that way. Nothing is punched out of a disk of dough because donuts are made from batter, not dough. The term "donut hole" comes from the people in marketing, who, as everyone knows, are themselves holes of a certain kind. The reason these little fried mostly-spherical things aren't called "donut balls" is because most people can't say that without sniggering in a juvenile fashion. The only reason these dumb things even exist is because the technology to make an amount of batter that will result in an integral number of donuts has not yet been invented.]

  • eric76 (unregistered)
    but he got off easy considering all the free food that was given to people that showed up right when the restaurants opened
    I thought it was $0.10 per item.
  • eric76 (unregistered) in reply to Sigivald
    Sigivald:
    I see you've never been in a jurisdiction where the tax rules are complex (ie, many of them, especially back East).

    Just charge the highest sales tax rate on everything and remit the entire amount to the state.

    I called the Texas State Comptroller's office one day and asked them what happens when someone charges more than the correct sales tax rate. The answer given was that as long as the vendor remits all the sales tax collected to the state, they don't care. They only get concerned when you send too little, whatever the reason.

  • Bill Lumbergh (unregistered) in reply to mrprogguy

    I worked at a large commercial pastry shop and we had two production lines that made donuts. One line extruded donuts from batter as you described. The other line used dough that was rolled out and then a roller with a donut cutting pattern was rolled over it. Indeed we did have actual donut holes.

  • Joe (unregistered) in reply to rast
    rast:
    Joe:
    Bill Lumbergh:
    I doubt most people are aware the burden our tax system puts on commerce.

    Some of us are: [image]

    Cool, now we can burden poor people instead.

    (this is not meant as a defense of the current fucked up tax system)

    Apparently you missed the top of the front page where they give you this: "A prebate to ensure no American pays federal taxes on spending up to the poverty level."

    Care to restate your comment?

    BTW, it was the father of communism Karl Marx who stated in his manifesto that a country should have a strongly progressive tax system. Funny how that's how this country turned out. Soak the rich!

  • (cs) in reply to snoofle
    snoofle:
    ethan:
    The real WTF is that when faced with malfunctioning registers, the staff gave away free food and turned customers away instead of just... doing the math by hand. Or hell, even using a $0.50 pocket calculator.

    Have we as a species really become this helpless?

    Seconded!

    Mistakes happen, especially when you rush and take shortcuts. But really, not being able to do the math by hand is a major wtf!

    What do you figure the odds are that if this restaurant has automatic door openers, that if the software glitched out, that the employees would be "trapped" inside rather than simly push the door open?

    You just reminded me of a video I saw on Youtube involving escalators...

    Addendum (2008-05-15 16:54): Whoops, someone already posted this video.

  • Ben Wilhelm (unregistered) in reply to mrprogguy
    The only reason these dumb things even exist is because the technology to make an amount of batter that will result in an integral number of donuts has not yet been invented.
    The reason they exist is because they're tasty. No other reason. I highly doubt that anyone would bother trying to sell them if you only got two or three "donut holes" out of a batch of donuts, which is what you'd get if it was merely a rounding error.

    Also, I should point out that donuts don't even contain nuts! Clearly this is another horrible name thanks to $tupid marketing people :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

    It's a cute name for a tasty treat. Why do you so deeply want to chalk it up to corporate incompetence?

  • Matt (unregistered) in reply to ParkinT
    ParkinT:
    Andrew:
    "...lead towards disasterous consequences.."
    • past tense of LEAD is LED
    • DISASTROUS : you can catch that one with a spellchecker.

    grrrrrrrrr

    But the past tense of READ is READ.

    English is a Crazy language

    Addendum (2008-05-15 13:46): And please tell me the meaning of WIND Is it a noun referring to "the breeze"? Or is it a verb denoting the process used to energize a clock?

    I actually have a wind powered clock, wound by wind. It makes such a wonderful mechanical clicking.

  • Joe (unregistered) in reply to eric76
    eric76:
    Sigivald:
    I see you've never been in a jurisdiction where the tax rules are complex (ie, many of them, especially back East).

    Just charge the highest sales tax rate on everything and remit the entire amount to the state.

    I called the Texas State Comptroller's office one day and asked them what happens when someone charges more than the correct sales tax rate. The answer given was that as long as the vendor remits all the sales tax collected to the state, they don't care. They only get concerned when you send too little, whatever the reason.

    This is different from the mafia how?

  • Steve (unregistered) in reply to Joe
    Joe:
    eric76:
    . . . I called the Texas State Comptroller's office one day and asked them what happens when someone charges more than the correct sales tax rate. The answer given was that as long as the vendor remits all the sales tax collected to the state, they don't care. They only get concerned when you send too little, whatever the reason.
    This is different from the mafia how?
    The Mafia doesn't provide things like schools and streets and sewer systems and most of the things which make civilized life possible?
  • Shill (unregistered) in reply to Joe
    Joe:
    eric76:
    Sigivald:
    I see you've never been in a jurisdiction where the tax rules are complex (ie, many of them, especially back East).

    Just charge the highest sales tax rate on everything and remit the entire amount to the state.

    I called the Texas State Comptroller's office one day and asked them what happens when someone charges more than the correct sales tax rate. The answer given was that as long as the vendor remits all the sales tax collected to the state, they don't care. They only get concerned when you send too little, whatever the reason.

    This is different from the mafia how?

    It's legal, for starters.

  • Bob (unregistered) in reply to Pol
    Pol:
    Andrew:
    "...lead towards disasterous consequences.."
    • past tense of LEAD is LED
    • DISASTROUS : you can catch that one with a spellchecker.

    grrrrrrrrr

    Actually Mr Pedantic, Grr officially only has 2 r's :p

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growling

    Wikipedia says grrr has 3 rs

    Capcha: dolor (pain).

  • Kuba (unregistered) in reply to webhamster
    webhamster:
    Hell, even with computers most clerks are hopelessly helpless. I can't count the number of times I've had a total of, say, $7.47 and I hand over $12.47 so I can get a fiver back (and reduce my pocket full of coinage...especially in Canada with our $1 and $2 coins). The number of blank and utterly confused stares I get when I do that is simply stunning even when they just have to type in $12.47 on their console to see that the result is $5.00 in change. And we won't even get started on what happens when they actually have to count out coins...

    I do it all the time, for same reasons: to get either some particular amount of change I expect to need later, or simply to dump some excess coinage. It's way nicer to get say $0.10 change than $0.98. Blank stares and everything -- you're spot on. Perverse pleasure - check ;)

    Kuba

  • Kuba (unregistered) in reply to webhamster
    webhamster:
    Hell, even with computers most clerks are hopelessly helpless. I can't count the number of times I've had a total of, say, $7.47 and I hand over $12.47 so I can get a fiver back (and reduce my pocket full of coinage...especially in Canada with our $1 and $2 coins). The number of blank and utterly confused stares I get when I do that is simply stunning even when they just have to type in $12.47 on their console to see that the result is $5.00 in change. And we won't even get started on what happens when they actually have to count out coins...

    I do it all the time, for same reasons: to get either some particular amount of change I expect to need later, or simply to dump some excess coinage. It's way nicer to get say $0.10 change than $0.98. Blank stares and everything -- you're spot on. Perverse pleasure - check ;)

    Kuba

  • (cs) in reply to Kuba
    Kuba:
    webhamster:
    Hell, even with computers most clerks are hopelessly helpless. I can't count the number of times I've had a total of, say, $7.47 and I hand over $12.47 so I can get a fiver back (and reduce my pocket full of coinage...especially in Canada with our $1 and $2 coins). The number of blank and utterly confused stares I get when I do that is simply stunning even when they just have to type in $12.47 on their console to see that the result is $5.00 in change. And we won't even get started on what happens when they actually have to count out coins...

    I do it all the time, for same reasons: to get either some particular amount of change I expect to need later, or simply to dump some excess coinage. It's way nicer to get say $0.10 change than $0.98. Blank stares and everything -- you're spot on. Perverse pleasure - check ;)

    Kuba

    If these folks ranked above the median on the IQ scale, do you think they'd be operating cash registers for a living?

  • Joe Shermill (unregistered)

    Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine

  • Joe (unregistered) in reply to Joe Shermill
    Joe Shermill:
    Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine

    Agreed. The problem is that once your career reaches above a certain threshold, you do more than just implement. You take part in the decision making process as well. So let's stipulate that Mike had a major role in the project planning. He was involved during requirements gathering, documentation, testing, etc.; all of it.

    If that's the case then he'd be more at fault that if he were just a code monkey told what code to write and where to put it.

  • Brandon (unregistered) in reply to eric76
    eric76:
    but he got off easy considering all the free food that was given to people that showed up right when the restaurants opened
    I thought it was $0.10 per item.
    But the registers were down, so they couldn't ring up the tickets.
  • Joe (unregistered) in reply to Steve
    Steve:
    Joe:
    eric76:
    . . . I called the Texas State Comptroller's office one day and asked them what happens when someone charges more than the correct sales tax rate. The answer given was that as long as the vendor remits all the sales tax collected to the state, they don't care. They only get concerned when you send too little, whatever the reason.
    This is different from the mafia how?
    The Mafia doesn't provide things like schools and streets and sewer systems and most of the things which make civilized life possible?

    Tony Soprano is in the "waste management business". He handles my garbage.

  • Re: Unhappy Hour (unregistered) in reply to Joe
    Joe:
    rast:
    Joe:
    Bill Lumbergh:
    I doubt most people are aware the burden our tax system puts on commerce.

    Some of us are: [image]

    Cool, now we can burden poor people instead.

    (this is not meant as a defense of the current fucked up tax system)

    Apparently you missed the top of the front page where they give you this: "A prebate to ensure no American pays federal taxes on spending up to the poverty level."

    Care to restate your comment?

    BTW, it was the father of communism Karl Marx who stated in his manifesto that a country should have a strongly progressive tax system. Funny how that's how this country turned out. Soak the rich!

    Single parents making $15,000+/year will be thrilled!

  • Mike L (unregistered)

    Hello All:

    I am Mike L, the unfortunate protagonist in the story you have just heard.

    Just a few comments and clarifications…

    1. While the registers were down, they did NOT stop taking orders. They did take the orders by hand; and has many have said, the cashiers knew the menu well enough to know all of the prices. Though there would have been SOME lost sales, they were still open for business; and we had all stores back up within the first 4 hours of business.

    2. This wasn’t a one-time deal I had with them; they have me on a monthly retainer. As far as the $7k discount goes: I chose a number that was high enough to shut down any future ill-will. The client was willing to let it slide without the discount, but considering that it was (as many have said now and I believed then), my own damn fault, I figured that fair is fair, and I shouldn’t punish them for my own WTF. Besides, $7k then was worth the considerably more I’ve invoiced them since.

    3. I have, ever since, insisted that one of their staff test and sign off (in writing) that everything is fine. This has worked well, not only for this type of problem (which hasn’t happened again), but for the more often case that they “forget” that they told me to do something that they changed their mind on later.

    4. @ unhappy hour… you talk about the tax in Poland, how about the tax in Ohio; where only carbonated drinks are taxed. That means you have to have the system setup so that Ohio stores get taxed one way, and stores in other states get taxed another. (my client is in 5 states).

    5. The real hair-pulling experience were the phones that morning. Picture 3 lines that won’t stop ringing; and your client calling a fourth line every 10 minutes wanting to know if you’ve got it fixed yet. Not the way you want to start a morning. In the end, when it was all over and the day went back to “normal”, I wound up going to a park to sit under a tree to get my head straight. Easily the worst day I’ve ever had with my business.

    The bottom line…. It was a classic F-up, but both I and my client survived. Since then, we’ve had about 90 similar updates (with no problems). I can sort-of laugh about it now.

  • cbittle (unregistered)

    This is NOT a mundane detail, Mike L.!!!

  • Konrad (unregistered)

    Last time I was at a supermarket when the EFPOS machines went down there was only one casher who still knew how to fill in the manual creditcard payment stubs.

    Apparently Management had decided that there was no further need to train the new people how to do it, now that they had EFPOS at every register.

  • (cs) in reply to Steve
    Steve:
    The Mafia doesn't provide things like schools and streets and sewer systems and most of the things which make civilized life possible?

    Neither do taxes... just that your average ignorant, sheep American thinks they do and so sees nothing wrong with the system.

  • (cs) in reply to gabba
    gabba:
    Why did Mike agree to the $7000 discount? They're the ones who wanted the rush job done. They accepted the risk.

    Because in accepting to undertake the job he became responsible for ensuring that the requirements of the project were met. He has no-one to blame but himself for accepting a job which he was incapable of doing. His inability to make good on his presumed contract puts him in a precarious position, as such it is most certainly in his interest to offer a discount, and as the chain seemed reliant upon his service in the future, it was in their interest to accept.

  • Mike L (unregistered) in reply to The Enterpriser

    lol.. I don't know that I would actually say "incapable of doing". I've been doing it for them, and (according to my client)doing it well, for the last 4+ years. Yes, this was an F-up, but since that was one F-up over the course of several hundred of these updates, my performance isn't that bad.

    As far as the 7k goes, two things: First I offered it, they did not ask for it.

    Second: I didn't offer it because I was afraid of lawsuits or anything; I offered it because it was the right thing to do. I beleive in putting my money where my mouth is, and it was fair to offer them a discount for their inconvenience.

    oh, and I don't have a contract with them, just a verbal understanding. Funny thing is, in the 4+ years I've been doing this for them, I've only actually seen my client face to face twice.

  • (cs) in reply to FredSaw
    FredSaw:
    Kuba:
    webhamster:
    Hell, even with computers most clerks are hopelessly helpless. I can't count the number of times I've had a total of, say, $7.47 and I hand over $12.47 so I can get a fiver back (and reduce my pocket full of coinage...especially in Canada with our $1 and $2 coins). The number of blank and utterly confused stares I get when I do that is simply stunning even when they just have to type in $12.47 on their console to see that the result is $5.00 in change. And we won't even get started on what happens when they actually have to count out coins...

    I do it all the time, for same reasons: to get either some particular amount of change I expect to need later, or simply to dump some excess coinage. It's way nicer to get say $0.10 change than $0.98. Blank stares and everything -- you're spot on. Perverse pleasure - check ;)

    Kuba

    If these folks ranked above the median on the IQ scale, do you think they'd be operating cash registers for a living?

    Most of the people operating registers these days are high school/college kids. If they can't do simple math in their heads then our society is totally and hopelessly screwed.

    I even had one clerk break down in tears one day because I did that and she couldn't understand why. She had to call her manager to find out if it was OK to type in the amount I gave her instead of a round value. I mean it's not like I'm asking her to index my investments.

  • (cs) in reply to webhamster
    webhamster:
    Most of the people operating registers these days are high school/college kids. If they can't do simple math in their heads then our society is totally and hopelessly screwed.
    They are high school/college kids; they can't do simple math; and we are totally and hopelessly screwed.
  • jaxad0127 (unregistered) in reply to Timo
    Timo:
    The obvious WTF aside (not falling back to manual backup procedures - lack of those would be another WTF)... Am I the only one who thinks that the Amurrican sales tax system is kind of a WTF? Perhaps not to those who have been used to it, but here in Finland (and in at least most of the EU) the price of a good or service which is given to the customer (consumer, more properly) (the price, that is) has to include VAT. Therefore, if the registers fail, the clerk/waiter/whatever only has to add up whatever price is printed on the menu. The tax payable to the IRS-equivalent can be figured out later from the itemized receipts by the accounting department. Simpler, no?
    Because that is (basically) illegal (see McCulloch v. Maryland).
  • spermster (unregistered) in reply to DZ-Jay
    DZ-Jay:
    AC:
    ounos:
    Andrew:
    - past tense of LEAD is LED
    I seem to have red this somewhere else too.

    You're write, I've seen it somewhere too.

    Your both wright! I red all that somewere to.

    -dZ.</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I once thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken.

    Ouch! Now I know where all that sperm I donated went.

    Ouch!

  • bramster (unregistered) in reply to Mike L
    Mike L:
    Hello All:

    I am Mike L, the unfortunate protagonist in the story you have just heard.

    Just a few comments and clarifications…

    1. While the registers were down, they did NOT stop taking orders. They did take the orders by hand; and has many have said, the cashiers knew the menu well enough to know all of the prices. Though there would have been SOME lost sales, they were still open for business; and we had all stores back up within the first 4 hours of business.

    2. This wasn’t a one-time deal I had with them; they have me on a monthly retainer. As far as the $7k discount goes: I chose a number that was high enough to shut down any future ill-will. The client was willing to let it slide without the discount, but considering that it was (as many have said now and I believed then), my own damn fault, I figured that fair is fair, and I shouldn’t punish them for my own WTF. Besides, $7k then was worth the considerably more I’ve invoiced them since.

    3. I have, ever since, insisted that one of their staff test and sign off (in writing) that everything is fine. This has worked well, not only for this type of problem (which hasn’t happened again), but for the more often case that they “forget” that they told me to do something that they changed their mind on later.

    4. @ unhappy hour… you talk about the tax in Poland, how about the tax in Ohio; where only carbonated drinks are taxed. That means you have to have the system setup so that Ohio stores get taxed one way, and stores in other states get taxed another. (my client is in 5 states).

    5. The real hair-pulling experience were the phones that morning. Picture 3 lines that won’t stop ringing; and your client calling a fourth line every 10 minutes wanting to know if you’ve got it fixed yet. Not the way you want to start a morning. In the end, when it was all over and the day went back to “normal”, I wound up going to a park to sit under a tree to get my head straight. Easily the worst day I’ve ever had with my business.

    The bottom line…. It was a classic F-up, but both I and my client survived. Since then, we’ve had about 90 similar updates (with no problems). I can sort-of laugh about it now.

    Mike: It sounds like you turned a problem into an opportunity. I had the same thing happen, back in 1994. It cost me 12K. . . It was hard to see the opportunity at the time, but I recovered that 12K many, many times over since.

    bottom line. . . If you screw up. . . suck it up.

    Joel on Software pretty much covers it in his blog. . .

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